2016 TdF, Stage 12: Montpellier → Mont Ventoux (178km)

[Tank Engine]

It was the correct decision to shorten the stage, since there were gales higher up the mountain. However, there was no control over the fans in the final stretch. This was an accident waiting to happen. I just hope that none of the riders were seriously hurt.

As for the finishing times, I think the judges made the right decision

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

http://www.steephill.tv/players/eitb/?title=Last+4+Km+of+Stage+12&dashboard=tour-de-france&id=4239388&yr=2016

17:18 onwards

Clear as mud. Looked to me like he was racing back on to the group. What is the time gap from him to the back of the group at that point; how would that be calculated?

He was only racing back up to them cause they were all held up.

 

[cnfdugo]

Wilful deviation from the course, attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle, resuming the race after having accepted a lift in a vehicle or on a motorbike

Oh, I can see how a true nit could give him a 50 CHF fine here.

 

[TMP402]

Wilful deviation from the course, attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle, resuming the race after having accepted a lift in a vehicle or on a motorbike

Oh, I can see how a true nit could give him a 50 CHF fine here.

Well, actually the penalty at this race would normally be 200 and elimination. But to me it's clear this rule is aimed at blatant cheaters cutting the course to gain time on the peloton or something of that nature. Froome didn't deviate from the course, he didn't brazenly "attempt" to go without a bike, though I imagine he would have kept hold of it if he had been aware of this rule at the time, and he didn't resume the race after being given a lift. I think the more general and guiding rules pertinent to this situation are:

1.2.108
Unless otherwise stated, each rider shall, in order to be classified, complete the race entirely through his own effort, without the assistance of any other person.
1.2.109
The rider may cross the finish line on foot, provided that has his bicycle with him.

 

[Koba80]

The (long ago) competitive athlete in me feels for TGBM and agrees with him.
The cycling 'it happens, deal with it' fan in me (can't believe I'm writing this) almost agrees with the Fantadors disgusted with the decision.
The person who now works in Olympic pro sports me sees no other outcome.

I've only seen it mentioned twice here - once 30-odd pages back and 2 by Moose.
This HAS to be the outcome because of the following:

This was caused (we assume) by accident (by a drunk ***?).
If it was allowed to stand you allow people to do this by design.
That primarily falls within push-hated-rider-off-bike territory, but what if someone actively (ISIS?) tried to attack the riders?

Simply, as organizers (who, in addition, royally *** up themselves) there was no other option to that taken.
No matter its imperfectness, nothing else would even be remotely possible in a pro sport with any interest in its athletes.
Period.

 

[Nacho]

Wilful deviation from the course, attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle, resuming the race after having accepted a lift in a vehicle or on a motorbike

Oh, I can see how a true nit could give him a 50 CHF fine here.

Well, actually the penalty at this race would normally be 200 and elimination. But to me it's clear this rule is aimed at blatant cheaters cutting the course to gain time on the peloton or something of that nature. Froome didn't deviate from the course, he didn't brazenly "attempt" to go without a bike, though I imagine he would have kept hold of it if he had been aware of this rule at the time, and he didn't resume the race after being given a lift. I think the more general and guiding rules pertinent to this situation are:

1.2.108
Unless otherwise stated, each rider shall, in order to be classified, complete the race entirely through his own effort, without the assistance of any other person.
1.2.109
The rider may cross the finish line on foot, provided that has his bicycle with him.

I wonder what the definition of "his bicycle" is?

If you look close at some of the videos of this calamity, in some places you can see behind the row(s) of spectators. There are a fair number of bicycles back there. I wonder why one of the spectators didn't offer Froome their bicycle so as to finish the race? Just probably never thought of it.

 

[Billie]

Wilful deviation from the course, attempt to be placed without having covered the entire course by bicycle, resuming the race after having accepted a lift in a vehicle or on a motorbike

Oh, I can see how a true nit could give him a 50 CHF fine here.

Well, actually the penalty at this race would normally be 200 and elimination. But to me it's clear this rule is aimed at blatant cheaters cutting the course to gain time on the peloton or something of that nature. Froome didn't deviate from the course, he didn't brazenly "attempt" to go without a bike, though I imagine he would have kept hold of it if he had been aware of this rule at the time, and he didn't resume the race after being given a lift. I think the more general and guiding rules pertinent to this situation are:

1.2.108
Unless otherwise stated, each rider shall, in order to be classified, complete the race entirely through his own effort, without the assistance of any other person.
1.2.109
The rider may cross the finish line on foot, provided that has his bicycle with him.

I wonder what the definition of "his bicycle" is?

If you look close at some of the videos of this calamity, in some places you can see behind the row(s) of spectators. There are a fair number of bicycles back there. I wonder why one of the spectators didn't offer Froome their bicycle so as to finish the race? Just probably never thought of it.

Also not allowed; You can only take bycicles from one of the two team cars in race or from the neutral car. Taking bikes form side of the road is only allowed at World Championships iirc.

 

[Nacho]

Also not allowed; You can only take bycicles from one of the two team cars in race or from the neutral car. Taking bikes form side of the road is only allowed at World Championships iirc.

Oh, I see.

 

[SeriousSam]

To exploit this precedent, Sky only need to set up a few agents at strategic positions along the 3rd week climbs, ready to throw themselves before Froome should there be any threat that Quintana or someone else pulls away. Time gaps will then be adjusted to what they were at incident time and no one can gain any time on Froome

 

[TMP402]

Also not allowed; You can only take bycicles from one of the two team cars in race or from the neutral car. Taking bikes form side of the road is only allowed at World Championships iirc.

Oh, I see.

Well, I'd like a definitive UCI ruling on that.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Re:

To exploit this precedent, Sky only need to set up a few agents at strategic positions along the 3rd week climbs, ready to throw themselves before Froome should there be any threat that Quintana or someone else pulls away. Time gaps will then be adjusted to what they were at incident time and no one can gain any time on Froome

Or they can bribe the weather forecasters to announce a heavy wind in order to get the race shortened.

 

[Carols]

So basically

- the ASO cancells the top of Ventoux because today's riders can't even fight trough a little wind
- Team Sky crashes => Froome neutralizes the race
-Froome crashes and breakes all rules by running => ASO gives Froome a massive time bonus

What a **** joke this formerly epic race has become. So sad to see

Or, in reality, broke no rules by running.

POint 14 of the regulations is quite clear. Anyone who tries to do (part of) the course without a bike should be eliminated.

Ah finally a citation of the rule...now to go check it

 

[vedrafjord]

If you look close at some of the videos of this calamity, in some places you can see behind the row(s) of spectators. There are a fair number of bicycles back there. I wonder why one of the spectators didn't offer Froome their bicycle so as to finish the race? Just probably never thought of it.

Also not allowed; You can only take bycicles from one of the two team cars in race or from the neutral car. Taking bikes form side of the road is only allowed at World Championships iirc.

Can you quote a rule for that? Jens Voigt famously took a junior bike in 2010.

 

[One Eyed Aussie]

Re:

To exploit this precedent, Sky only need to set up a few agents at strategic positions along the 3rd week climbs, ready to throw themselves before Froome should there be any threat that Quintana or someone else pulls away. Time gaps will then be adjusted to what they were at incident time and no one can gain any time on Froome

Or, in your preferred solution, Quintana fanboys can run into Froome to let Quintana get away and win the race.
Any decision is theoretically exploitable by the unscrupulous.

 

[red zone]

Re: Re:

To exploit this precedent, Sky only need to set up a few agents at strategic positions along the 3rd week climbs, ready to throw themselves before Froome should there be any threat that Quintana or someone else pulls away. Time gaps will then be adjusted to what they were at incident time and no one can gain any time on Froome

Or, in your preferred solution, Quintana fanboys can run into Froome to let Quintana get away and win the race.
Any decision is theoretically exploitable by the unscrupulous.

except the precedent has now been set that Froome/Sky can neutralize the race at any time they like and if that doesn't work the officials will just adjust the times

to bad little Ritchie didn't have the same rules when he had his mechanical

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

An iconic day in Cycling, Chris Froome travelled 50m without looking at his stem

Disappointing that Froome's running style is a bit "normal". Elbows and knees in, steady head. Almost fluent in fact. I was hoping for something a bit more quirky

Hey, he's Kenyan. It comes naturally....

Props to Geraint Thomas for the best response in a difficult situation.

 

[krismtb]

Re:

Are those accidents an indicator of increased popularity of cycling?
More and more people by the roads.

The crowds were due to the shortening of the race by 6 KM. Most of them would otherwise be further up the mountain with enough room to enjoy the race. This is the organizer's fault.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

except the precedent has now been setl

It doesn't seem like you've learned the first rule of the UCI, there are no standards. They quite frequently randomly assert rules, some of which are quite novel interpretations.

Today, the GC remains intact. Favored riders remain favored. Not favored? well, the rules don't fit their circumstances.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Are those accidents an indicator of increased popularity of cycling?
More and more people by the roads.

The crowds were due to the shortening of the race by 6 KM. Most of them would otherwise be further up the mountain with enough room to enjoy the race. This is the organizer's fault.

There is only so much they can do. It was too windy for the fences so the crowds have to be behave themselves and give the riders room which they didn't. Some of them anyway. Do they want to watch a good race or riders falling ?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

This is pretty damning
https://twitter.com/assekevin/status/753720450551836673

WTF is Nairo doing?

 

[ILovecycling]

Im pretty surprised by Mollema's tweet. I wouldnt expect that at all...and of course I agree with him

 

[Stelvio]

Re:

WTF is Nairo doing?

Trying to get even less liked.

Edit: From this video the crash appears to be caused solely by motos.

 

[Googolplex]

If you look close at some of the videos of this calamity, in some places you can see behind the row(s) of spectators. There are a fair number of bicycles back there. I wonder why one of the spectators didn't offer Froome their bicycle so as to finish the race? Just probably never thought of it.

Also not allowed; You can only take bycicles from one of the two team cars in race or from the neutral car. Taking bikes form side of the road is only allowed at World Championships iirc.

Can you quote a rule for that? Jens Voigt famously took a junior bike in 2010.

Riders may only receive technical support from the technical personnel of their team or from one of the neutral support cars or else from the broom wagon.

Mechanical assistance at fixed locations on the course is limited to wheel changes only except for races on a circuit where bike changes can be made in the authorized zones.

Also, I have been in impression that it was neutral service bicycle that Voigt took. He just coloured the story.

 

[Matteo.]

Simple marginal gains to limit losses

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

WTF is Nairo doing?

Trying to get even less liked.

Edit: From this video the crash appears to be caused solely by motos.

Depressing.
Allthough the fact they can't manouvre because of a too big crowd is ofcourse the true cause to all of this. It's doomed to happen if they don't change it.

Imo they should barrier the whole climb and ask 1€ fees. I hate it, but it has to happen.