2016 TdF, Stage 12: Montpellier → Mont Ventoux (178km)

[RattaKuningas]

Anyone thinks that Trek protest will change anything?

 

[Ataraxus]

punished

That's not the way the UCI works. Rules are not rules until they almost randomly enforce them. No one is going to penalize Froome.

i think it would be correct to say ASO would not penalise the yellow jersey....in this

situation

mollema has a point.....re if he had been the only faller.......

Mark L

Ehm.. Quintana gets 7 bonies for being held up and Mollema 0.

Rewatched the stage.
Apparently Quintana was in the Aru group at the point of the blocked road.
Hence the 7 seconds he got gapped by Aru in the finish line are removed.
Fair enough.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

As a neutral viewer of the tour this is probably a fair result. However what bothers me is the free interpretation of the rules. Because if Mollema was the one running up that hill the results would not be changed. This is just because it is Froome. This TDF is really sad to watch. When someone else falls nobody waits. However when two nobody's from Sky fall everyone waits.

It's not because it's Froome. But you (and many others) may very well be right it's because it's the yellow jersey.

But protecting the yellow is as much, if not more, of a tradition in the tour as spectator interference.

Not when it happened to Valverde in yellow. It was just "Oh well, we were already cranking up the watts so we don't have to slow our roll for the fallen yellow jersey".

 

[DFA123]

Froomes fork or whatever it's named was broken because a motor from behind raced over it.

So the crash happened because of a moto (probably braking for people) and his bike was broken by a moto.

I'm glad what the commisaries decided on. It still feels awful, but I don't think there was a better solution.

Surprised that Mollema was able to follow Froome and Porte and actually closed the gap. Impressive, hope he doesnt fade in week 3 like he usually does.
I also hope Porte keeps on riding like he does now. I have absolutely no love for him, but I just love it when riders proof people wrong.

Just a point of interest, apparently it was the UCI who stepped in and made the decision, not the comissaires.

Not trying to be pedantic or anything, it just surprised me a bit that they were prepared to do that. I wonder if the comissaires would actually have done something by themselves.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Double posting.

 

[SeriousSam]

What was Mollema's gap to the next finisher at the time of the crash, and at the finish?

 

[doperhopper]

And another snippet of news. Trek Factory Racing protesting the result now. Especially regarding Quintana/Valverde being placed in ST as Yates group

and here we go, the pandora box was opened...

What's going to happen next time when incidents like "GVA in San Sebastian" occur?

 

[LeSensei]

Froomes fork or whatever it's named was broken because a motor from behind raced over it.

So the crash happened because of a moto (probably braking for people) and his bike was broken by a moto.

I'm glad what the commisaries decided on. It still feels awful, but I don't think there was a better solution.

Surprised that Mollema was able to follow Froome and Porte and actually closed the gap. Impressive, hope he doesnt fade in week 3 like he usually does.
I also hope Porte keeps on riding like he does now. I have absolutely no love for him, but I just love it when riders proof people wrong.

Just a point of interest, apparently it was the UCI who stepped in and made the decision, not the comissaires.

Not trying to be pedantic or anything, it just surprised me a bit that they were prepared to do that. I wonder if the comissaires would actually have done something by themselves.

That doesn't surprise me. This is going viral all over the world now, into the history books as one of cycling's biggest disgrace. Drama, drama, drama. UCI eased the pressure off the poor comissaires and took all the responsability. Good call.

 

[WheelofGear]

This Tour is a disgrace. Now Quintana, who was at least 10 seconds back, gets s/t as the chasers.

 

[Kwibus]

Quintana was dropped by the chasing group. Why he get the same time? Shame

to be honest i think quintana was in the same group but was held more by the incident

This. TV footage showed it too. He was held up.

If you look at this image you can see Van Garderen at the back but no Quintana ( the one on the left is Valverde). So he was in front of Yates, Aru, Purito etc. after the place of the crash

So, at the very least, his teammate got held up by the crash. Still a disadvantage that he was affected by, no?

Yeah Gerrans crashed out so Yates should get s.t. as Mollema as well.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

What was Mollema's gap to the next finisher at the time of the crash, and at the finish?

Apparently around 23s at the crash, only 19s at finish.

He may be annoyed that Quintana was given the same time as the Yates group when he was apparently being dropped. I haven't seen footage of this though.

 

[TomekA]

He was exactly 7 seconds back, not "at least 10 seconds back". I rewatched the stage.

 

[DFA123]

It's kind of been lost after what happened later, but how strong was Poels today?! Chased down a hard attack from Valverde and three reasonaby significant digs from Quintana, despite looking absolutely on his limit for about 15 minutes. Henao didn't even get the chance to do anything before Froome went, because Poels was so strong.

 

[TomekA]

Re: Re:

What was Mollema's gap to the next finisher at the time of the crash, and at the finish?

Apparently around 23s at the crash, only 19s at finish.

He may be annoyed that Quintana was given the same time as the Yates group when he was apparently being dropped before they stopped at the crash. I haven't seen footage of this though.

How come? He was clearly in the Yates/Aru group. He was at the second position behind Yates. Rewatch the stage.

 

[MatParker117]

“I was on the moto just behind Froome and Porte,” Greffet said. “The TV motorcycle hit a spectator. I don’t know if the spectator had been running and fallen down, or was just in the way. The motorcycle couldn’t avoid him.”

“Once the motorcycle stopped, the road was too narrow for anybody to pass.”

“After Froome got off his bike, we rode next to him on the moto, and I was shouting, “Hey! Stop! Grab a bike off the yellow car until your car comes,” Geffet said.


“We gave him the first bike that was available, off the edge of the rack. We moved as fast as possible,” said Corteggiani. “We put him on the bike, and while it wasn’t perfect — an L, not an XL, and not with Shimano pedals — Froome got the bike that was the quickest [to access].”

“He was only on the bike for a minute before his team arrived,” Corteggiani added.

Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/news/more-details-of-froome-crash-from-mavic-neutral-service_414703#uwFEXPw7Qyo3wIUO.99

 

[DFA123]

So, at the very least, his teammate got held up by the crash. Still a disadvantage that he was affected by, no?

Yeah Gerrans crashed out so Yates should get s.t. as Mollema as well.

Well, that's kind of the point I'm making. If you start making these arbirtary decisions, where do you draw the line? Valverde getting held up, losing his rhythm and having to accelerate back to the front undoubtedly had an impact on Quintana, given that he ended up pacing him for most of the last km.

Now the UCI have opened up this can of worms, how can they quantify this kind of thing?

 

[Cookster15]

Once again it takes a big controversy to get cycling onto the front pages. A real shame. But I think ASO have been caught out by unintended consequences of shortening the stage due to the winds. The crowds at summit of Ventoux would never be a large or hard to control as they were on the approach to Chalet Reynard - there is no space up there.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

What was Mollema's gap to the next finisher at the time of the crash, and at the finish?

Apparently around 23s at the crash, only 19s at finish.

He may be annoyed that Quintana was given the same time as the Yates group when he was apparently being dropped before they stopped at the crash. I haven't seen footage of this though.

How come? He was clearly in the Yates/Aru group. He was at the second position behind Yates. Rewatch the stage.

A lot of people said Quintana was dropping but as I said I've never seen footage of this. He may have heard the same.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

In 2011 stage 1 Contador's group got taken out by a spectator on a flat stage. He lost 1.20 and without that loss he would have been on the podium.

Why should spectators taking out riders suddenly be neutralised if its never been before?

I have lost a lot of respect for Quintana. What happened to not attacking an opponent that has suffered a mechanical or other misfortune as is the unwritten rule? Prior to the Porte/Froome crash Quintana had been dropped and was not going to be able to respond, he was loosing time on both of them. He should not have intentionally profited from their misfortune, that is just not done. Just another sign cycling is losing its traditions and etiquette.

Are you serious? :lol:

Did you expect Quintana to just climb off his bike and walk up the mountain holding hands with Froome?

Not holding hands, thanks for being condescending. He could have waited for him and not gained on his misfortune. It has been done in cycling many times and is the respectful thing to do. He had no right to be in front of Froome or Porte.

I also don't understand why a number of Sky riders rode past Froome and did not give him their bike while he was languishing on a neutral spares bike he could not even pedal due to shoe incompatibility. Sure their bike might not fit him but it was only a few hundred metres and it would have saved him the time waiting for the team car. His own team members failed him.

I actually don't like Froome much but what happened today was wrong on so many levels.

I know you're serious and that is what is most ludicrous about this post (the bolded reference to Quintana). It is a race. It's not up to Quintana or any other rider to roll up on a rival and make a determination what is fair and what is not about rolling past him as he waits for a bike replacement. After 100+ km's and climbing a mountain to the finish you're just trying to get to the end of the stage.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

What was Mollema's gap to the next finisher at the time of the crash, and at the finish?

Apparently around 23s at the crash, only 19s at finish.

He may be annoyed that Quintana was given the same time as the Yates group when he was apparently being dropped before they stopped at the crash. I haven't seen footage of this though.

How come? He was clearly in the Yates/Aru group. He was at the second position behind Yates. Rewatch the stage.

He was with Yates at the time of the crash and 7 seconds off at the finish line.
The gaps are taken at the time of the crash which is 23 seconds. Not 19+7 seconds at the finish line.
Mollema is complaining for nothing IMO.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

What was Mollema's gap to the next finisher at the time of the crash, and at the finish?

Apparently around 23s at the crash, only 19s at finish.

He may be annoyed that Quintana was given the same time as the Yates group when he was apparently being dropped. I haven't seen footage of this though.

Ofcourse the leading GC trio were obviously delayed the most since they crashed and the others were almost slowed down to zero.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re:

If Quintana was held up by the incident and somehow assumed that he would therefore get the same time as the group he was in, then why did Valverde say that these things just happen and that it's too bad for Froome?

Good point

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

It's kind of been lost after what happened later, but how strong was Poels today?! Chased down a hard attack from Valverde and three reasonaby significant digs from Quintana, despite looking absolutely on his limit for about 15 minutes. Henao didn't even get the chance to do anything before Froome went, because Poels was so strong.

Poels has absolutely good days and days that he's just an average rider. I hope that he realises he isn't a GT contender since he keeps on saying he's hoping he gets his chance to go for a GT one day.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

If Quintana was held up by the incident and somehow assumed that he would therefore get the same time as the group he was in, then why did Valverde say that these things just happen and that it's too bad for Froome?

Good point

I think Movistar would be more than happy to accept the result on the line. Delighted in fact.

But if you're giving Froome the time of the group he was in when the incident happened, you have to do the same for Quintana and Valverde.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

If Quintana was held up by the incident and somehow assumed that he would therefore get the same time as the group he was in, then why did Valverde say that these things just happen and that it's too bad for Froome?

Good point

Because he is Valverde the whiner.
He expects the teams of JRod, Dan Martin and Van Garderen to pull the same in Bagneres de Luchon descent because they apparently want to win the Tour the same.