2016 TdF, Stage 8: Pau → Bagnères-de-Luchon (184km)

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movingtarget said:
Tonton said:
MacBAir said:
Tonton said:
Masterful: chapeau Froome.

If I were Contador, I would never wear the Tinkov kit ever again...
Why? See, I can't understand this BS. When was the last time that Alberto was superior to Roman at the Tour? At this point, Roman is the superior rider and has a better GC position, while also helping his team win stages.

Alberto is a friggin' burden. He either helps Roman and works for Peter on those difficult finishes, or gets the hell out of the tour.
This.

Bertie is hurt, I think that Tinkov should ask him to abandon, heal, go to the Vuelta. But not let him hanging, with Majka doing his thing, and Roman doing his thing. Don't give the guy hope that he can recover, turn things around, if you're not willing to gather around him. That's BS, as you call it.
It would be wiser to abandon and stay fresh for the Vuelta but I am sure it won't happen. Maybe he wants a stage win but even that looks unlikely at the moment.
There will be a lot of fresh riders on Vuelta anyways who won't be in the olympics and have prepeared months for Vuelta. I don't think that he should abandon Tour because of potential Vuelta win that might not happen. If Contador feels good he might get a stage win with the climbing TT. There is no reason why he shouldn't be much better than compared to now.
 
Tonton said:
MacBAir said:
Tonton said:
Masterful: chapeau Froome.

If I were Contador, I would never wear the Tinkov kit ever again...
Why? See, I can't understand this BS. When was the last time that Alberto was superior to Roman at the Tour? At this point, Roman is the superior rider and has a better GC position, while also helping his team win stages.

Alberto is a friggin' burden. He either helps Roman and works for Peter on those difficult finishes, or gets the hell out of the tour.
This.

Bertie is hurt, I think that Tinkov should ask him to abandon, heal, go to the Vuelta. But not let him hanging, with Majka doing his thing, and Roman doing his thing. Don't give the guy hope that he can recover, turn things around, if you're not willing to gather around him. That's BS, as you call it.
There are more objectives in the race than simply waiting to pace Contador when he inevitably gets dropped once a genuine selection is made.
 
Re: Re:

Guybrush said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Guybrush said:
Kudos to Meintjes. Also Buchmann, this could be a breakthrough performance at gc level
Why kudos to Buchmann? Seriously, I like the kid, but nobody should get kudos for burying himself to move from 30th to 25th on GC. That's just total insanity. Has someone told him that there's an opening in the sport for a new Francis De Greef?

These are not GC positions anyone should be fighting for, ever.
well, he's a young lad and he is testing himself, nothing wrong with that. Sure he's in the 20's GC group but it's part of a normal learning curve
I'm fine with him testing himself, but by the time today's stage had started he'd already tested himself and come up short on both the prior mountain and the hilly stages and should be well aware that nothing worthwhile is possible on GC. Instead he's burying himself to fight his way from 28th to 23rd with the longer term aim of cracking 20th. None of those positions mean anything. He's fighting to move past riders who are only accidentally up that high because they are their leader's last domestique and aren't even paying attention to their own times.

He should be dumping time, saving energy and then testing himself in the break on climbing stages. That would be a worthwhile test and one that if he passes it brings worthwhile rewards. 23rd place is not a worthwhile reward. It is meaningless. 23rd and 123rd are equally without interest.
 
Re: Re:

Jelantik said:
DFA123 said:
Andro said:
Good ride but also fairly lucky that Quintana gets caught offguard while grabbing a bottle and Valverde takes a long time before he decides he actually wants to help Quintana and try to chase down Froome.
I think Valverde could have caught Froome if he was by himself, but Quintana kept losing his wheel so he had to hold back a bit. At Quintana's size, it's always going to be a potential weakness on long, straight descents like this.
lol.. now Froome is going to win the Tour by doing a decent. Maybe Quintana forgets to train for descending.. It's quite a ride by Froome. We see Quintana's beloved patriot of armor... descending.
And I was getting ridiculed back in the day for saying that he is a much worse bike-handler than Froome.....
 
Re: Re:

RattaKuningas said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Hayabusa said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Hayabusa said:
Disagree, if he had reacted quickly then he'd have stopped the flow of a few seconds and eventually Valverde would have caught up and been able to lead from the front.
Froome is more explosive, heavier and a better descender. The more Quintana "takes responsibility" the more time he loses. Letting Valverde lead was exactly the right thing to do. Your "taking responsibility" point is complete nonsense.
We can disagree, no need to get heated.

If Quintana loses this tour then he only has himself to blame (just like last year).
There's nothing "heated" in my comment. You have decided, somewhere in your head, that Quintana's problem is that he doesn't take responsibility and looks to others. You have then projected this idea onto his behaviour in a portion of a stage where taking responsibility himself would have been a very stupid idea, given that he had a teammate who is a much better descender with him. I'm not irate about that, just entertained.

There were riders in that group who actually did fail to take responsibility that they should have taken, most notably the BMC two, Bardet and, in particular, Yates. Yates has the excuse of inexperience though. Those riders are ones who actually could have contributed to pulling Froome back if they hadn't let Valverde lead the chase at a pace designed for Quintana. In so far as Quintana made a tactical error it was in not attacking on the climb. Once they were on the descent, having Valverde hold his hand was the obvious and sensible thing to do.
Had BMC worked on descent from start on then they would've reached Froome but they didn't. As you pointed out correctly other GC conteders failed to take responsibility not Quintana. It seemed like no riders besides Movistar had any GC hopes.
in all honesty if I was anyone in the NQ group I would have thought that Valverde was going to pull him back in the top half of the climb. where it did stay close. It wasn't shown where BMC took up the chase but my guess is once the gap opened past the 10 to 20 secs it hovered around for most of the initial decent
 
Re: Re:

Velolover2 said:
SeriousSam said:
Velolover2 said:
https://twitter.com/CyclingHubTV/status/751803200404131840

Is there anything Froome can't do? He even throws better punches than Contador. :D
Clearly the most complete rider in the peloton, master of every essential skill
He should be careful though. The spectator was waving a Columbian flag while cheering for Quintana. Could get him in trouble with the Colombian fans. :eek:
I thought the Chicken had retired?
 
RattaKuningas said:
movingtarget said:
Tonton said:
MacBAir said:
Tonton said:
Masterful: chapeau Froome.

If I were Contador, I would never wear the Tinkov kit ever again...
Why? See, I can't understand this BS. When was the last time that Alberto was superior to Roman at the Tour? At this point, Roman is the superior rider and has a better GC position, while also helping his team win stages.

Alberto is a friggin' burden. He either helps Roman and works for Peter on those difficult finishes, or gets the hell out of the tour.
This.

Bertie is hurt, I think that Tinkov should ask him to abandon, heal, go to the Vuelta. But not let him hanging, with Majka doing his thing, and Roman doing his thing. Don't give the guy hope that he can recover, turn things around, if you're not willing to gather around him. That's BS, as you call it.
It would be wiser to abandon and stay fresh for the Vuelta but I am sure it won't happen. Maybe he wants a stage win but even that looks unlikely at the moment.
There will be a lot of fresh riders on Vuelta anyways who won't be in the olympics and have prepeared months for Vuelta. I don't think that he should abandon Tour because of potential Vuelta win that might not happen. If Contador feels good he might get a stage win with the climbing TT. There is no reason why he shouldn't be much better than compared to now.
But not many of those fresh riders can win the Vuelta. Contador can.
 
Jan 10, 2010
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Not a fan and never thought I'd say / type this...but Chapeau Chris Froome!!

Didn't think he'd have the stones to pull a move like that!! Only thing missing was to pull a Wheelie over the line :)
 
[/quote]If I were Contador, I would never wear the Tinkov kit ever again...[/quote]
Why? See, I can't understand this BS. When was the last time that Alberto was superior to Roman at the Tour? At this point, Roman is the superior rider and has a better GC position, while also helping his team win stages.

Alberto is a friggin' burden. He either helps Roman and works for Peter on those difficult finishes, or gets the hell out of the tour.[/quote]
This.

Bertie is hurt, I think that Tinkov should ask him to abandon, heal, go to the Vuelta. But not let him hanging, with Majka doing his thing, and Roman doing his thing. Don't give the guy hope that he can recover, turn things around, if you're not willing to gather around him. That's BS, as you call it.[/quote]

It would be wiser to abandon and stay fresh for the Vuelta but I am sure it won't happen. Maybe he wants a stage win but even that looks unlikely at the moment.[/quote]

There will be a lot of fresh riders on Vuelta anyways who won't be in the olympics and have prepeared months for Vuelta. I don't think that he should abandon Tour because of potential Vuelta win that might not happen. If Contador feels good he might get a stage win with the climbing TT. There is no reason why he shouldn't be much better than compared to now.[/quote]

But not many of those fresh riders can win the Vuelta. Contador can.[/quote]

a recovered Kruijswijk would make it interesting
 
Apr 22, 2012
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MacBAir said:
Tonton said:
Masterful: chapeau Froome.

If I were Contador, I would never wear the Tinkov kit ever again...
Why? See, I can't understand this BS. When was the last time that Alberto was superior to Roman at the Tour? At this point, Roman is the superior rider and has a better GC position, while also helping his team win stages.

Alberto is a friggin' burden. He either helps Roman and works for Peter on those difficult finishes, or gets the hell out of the tour.
Same reason why Tonton was bashing FDJ for not waiting for Pinot. Wait, what, he didnt? Then don't try to find other reason than unreasonability.
 
If I were Contador, I would never wear the Tinkov kit ever again...[/quote]
Why? See, I can't understand this BS. When was the last time that Alberto was superior to Roman at the Tour? At this point, Roman is the superior rider and has a better GC position, while also helping his team win stages.

Alberto is a friggin' burden. He either helps Roman and works for Peter on those difficult finishes, or gets the hell out of the tour.[/quote]
This.

Bertie is hurt, I think that Tinkov should ask him to abandon, heal, go to the Vuelta. But not let him hanging, with Majka doing his thing, and Roman doing his thing. Don't give the guy hope that he can recover, turn things around, if you're not willing to gather around him. That's BS, as you call it.[/quote]

It would be wiser to abandon and stay fresh for the Vuelta but I am sure it won't happen. Maybe he wants a stage win but even that looks unlikely at the moment.[/quote]

There will be a lot of fresh riders on Vuelta anyways who won't be in the olympics and have prepeared months for Vuelta. I don't think that he should abandon Tour because of potential Vuelta win that might not happen. If Contador feels good he might get a stage win with the climbing TT. There is no reason why he shouldn't be much better than compared to now.[/quote]

But not many of those fresh riders can win the Vuelta. Contador can.[/quote]

a recovered Kruijswijk would make it interesting[/quote]

Yes I am not sure whether SK and Chaves are doing the Vuelta. Nibali obviously isn't. Talansky is but he won't win the Vuelta. The Vuelta might be a weaker field this year because of the Olympics so Talansky might have a chance at a higher finish than usual as he did not do the Giro or the Tour. Gesink as well but normally neither would be podium prospects.
 
DFA123 said:
Unfortunately I have to agree with all of this. Contador is a liability at the moment. Tinkoff is actually having a decent tour: Sagan is on fire as usual, Majka leading the KOM and Kreuziger going well in the GC. This side showing surrounding Contador needs to stop.

Sure, he's the most talented GC rider on the team and the nominal leader. But he's clearly way below the performance level needed, for whatever reason. The team is 100% correct to change their priorities.
Why is he a liability? A waste of bottles, rice cakes and gels or what?
He's just "there". Hanging on at the back trying to lose as little time as possible. I don't see how that qualifies him as a "friggin burden" or a liability.
 
The impression ITV gave was that Cav was out the back on his own, but I see he finished in a group of more than 50 so no real danger there as they usually waive the time limit anyway if there's a risk of the whole grupetto being eliminated...

I've never really been a fan of Chris Froome but that was class today. Made the others look silly..
 
Jun 2, 2016
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Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Guybrush said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Guybrush said:
Kudos to Meintjes. Also Buchmann, this could be a breakthrough performance at gc level
Why kudos to Buchmann? Seriously, I like the kid, but nobody should get kudos for burying himself to move from 30th to 25th on GC. That's just total insanity. Has someone told him that there's an opening in the sport for a new Francis De Greef?

These are not GC positions anyone should be fighting for, ever.
well, he's a young lad and he is testing himself, nothing wrong with that. Sure he's in the 20's GC group but it's part of a normal learning curve
I'm fine with him testing himself, but by the time today's stage had started he'd already tested himself and come up short on both the prior mountain and the hilly stages and should be well aware that nothing worthwhile is possible on GC. Instead he's burying himself to fight his way from 28th to 23rd with the longer term aim of cracking 20th. None of those positions mean anything. He's fighting to move past riders who are only accidentally up that high because they are their leader's last domestique and aren't even paying attention to their own times.

He should be dumping time, saving energy and then testing himself in the break on climbing stages. That would be a worthwhile test and one that if he passes it brings worthwhile rewards. 23rd place is not a worthwhile reward. It is meaningless. 23rd and 123rd are equally without interest.
He arrived 15th today, this after a real mountain stage. Don't you think he can find some motivation in following the best riders in the best race of the world? Why do you want him to lose on purpose time? He's indeed here to see what he's able of. His final ranking is in no way important; what is important is to see what he will do, until which level he's able to go. It's a normal phase to see if he has a future as GC rider.

You speak about going for stage hunting. But Buchmann is not a rider like that, he has basically no jump at all. His probability of a stage victory is very very low. Especially because he has big troubles if it comes to fight at the beginning, he needs to warm up. And it becomes better and better during the stage. He has always had some troubles at the beginning. Joining a breakaway group is therefore difficult for him, since it doesn't match his qualities.

Let him go as he wants, earning some experience for the future is the thing to do! But losing time on purpose for a rider like him would be one of the most silly thing I've heard recently in a perspective of his development....
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
movingtarget said:
LaFlorecita said:
spalco said:
I expected this to be a boring stage, glad I was so wrong. :)
It was pretty damn boring, besides the final descent.
Tomorrow won't be so dull I am sure. There will be plenty of GC victims tomorrow.
Plenty GC victims isn't what will make this race less dull :)
C''mon you have to admit the well oiled Sky machine did a good job today ! Tomorrow you will see something special. Froome will stop, punch a spectator and still win........with two flat tyres and his legs on top of the handlebars.
 

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