2016 TdF, Stage 8: Pau → Bagnères-de-Luchon (184km)

[phanatic]

Bertie deserves somebody to ride around with him, just like Lance had Horner in 2010.

 

[Carols]

Bertie deserves somebody to ride around with him, just like Lance had Horner in 2010.

That''s Kiserlovski's job, but he always drops before an injured Alberto does

 

[LaFlorecita]

Bertie deserves somebody to ride around with him, just like Lance had Horner in 2010.

He has Kiserlovski to keep him company. And on mountain stages he can chill in the gruppetto with Sagan. Will be a whole new experience for him.

 

[Cookster15]

Bertie deserves somebody to ride around with him, just like Lance had Horner in 2010.

Absolutely. What does that loudmouth Olev Tinkov have to say about his teams disgraceful lack of support for his champion?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Kelderman and Rolland had the same issue, due to temperatures under braking the tyre literally melted off.

Kelderman and Lotto are heavily dissappointed. Up until the fall Kelderman felt really well. After that fall obviously not.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Bertie deserves somebody to ride around with him, just like Lance had Horner in 2010.

Absolutely. What does that loudmouth Olev Tinkov have to say about his teams disgraceful lack of support for his champion?

They stopped supporting him because he has no chance anymore to win or at least get on the podium. Can't blame them. Majka has a free role and Kreuziger and Contador were co-leaders on stage 7 and 8 - and from now on Kreuziger will be their GC leader.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Kudos to Meintjes. Also Buchmann, this could be a breakthrough performance at gc level

nd yet Buchmann almost could't get a contract in ermany when he turned pro because he was a pure climber (The German cycling culture is still mostly built around sprinters an TT specialists, pure climbers don't get too many chances t shine), Bora told him that theyd only sign him if he did well in the 2014 Tour de l'Avenir and he finished 7th on gc.
Hats off to Froome, that was a grea move!
Gutted for Rolland, another French gc contender lost time.

 

[Kwibus]

Just watched the stage :lol:

Well done Froome. You just shut down a lot of people.

Incredible mistake by Quintana though.

Valverde is a special breed, my my....

 

[saganboss]

Re:

Did Tony Martin make a single pull in the break? I don't remember.

yeah, for like 200 meters in a descent . And they say Majka is a wheelsucker.

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

Did Tony Martin make a single pull in the break? I don't remember.

yeah, for like 200 meters in a descent . And they say Majka is a wheelsucker.

he pulled until they dropped him on the 1st climb after joining. When he rejoined It was then clear he had no chance as Sky was pulling them all back.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Kudos to Meintjes. Also Buchmann, this could be a breakthrough performance at gc level

nd yet Buchmann almost could't get a contract in ermany when he turned pro because he was a pure climber (The German cycling culture is still mostly built around sprinters an TT specialists, pure climbers don't get too many chances t shine), Bora told him that theyd only sign him if he did well in the 2014 Tour de l'Avenir and he finished 7th on gc.

Odd to think of Bora being that conservative. Buchmann has been their best signing of the last few years, other than Bennett (and with the proviso that we don't know how Muhlberger will do). You'd think that just the possibility that he could be Germany's best GC man or climber for years would have been an obvious incentive. I mean what have they got to lose by offering a German kid who can climb a neo-pro contract? Even if he never really developed he'd have been better at getting bottles on hillier courses than most of their domestiques.

I'm sure that they are paying Dominik Nerz a great deal more than Buchmann's initial contract cost.

 

[saganboss]

Re: Re:

Did Tony Martin make a single pull in the break? I don't remember.

yeah, for like 200 meters in a descent . And they say Majka is a wheelsucker.

he pulled until they dropped him on the 1st climb after joining. When he rejoined It was then clear he had no chance as Sky was pulling them all back.

yeah i know, i was exaggerating, but he could've taken more turns on the front.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Did Tony Martin make a single pull in the break? I don't remember.

yeah, for like 200 meters in a descent . And they say Majka is a wheelsucker.

he pulled until they dropped him on the 1st climb after joining. When he rejoined It was then clear he had no chance as Sky was pulling them all back.

yeah i know, i was exaggerating, but he could've taken more turns on the front.

I would never advise a Time Trial specialist to share the work with Majka and Pinot on a mountain stage.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Kudos to Meintjes. Also Buchmann, this could be a breakthrough performance at gc level

nd yet Buchmann almost could't get a contract in ermany when he turned pro because he was a pure climber (The German cycling culture is still mostly built around sprinters an TT specialists, pure climbers don't get too many chances t shine), Bora told him that theyd only sign him if he did well in the 2014 Tour de l'Avenir and he finished 7th on gc.

Odd to think of Bora being that conservative. Buchmann has been their best signing of the last few years, other than Bennett (and with the proviso that we don't know how Muhlberger will do). You'd think that just the possibility that he could be Germany's best GC man or climber for years would have been an obvious incentive. I mean what have they got to lose by offering a German kid who can climb a neo-pro contract? Even if he never really developed he'd have been better at getting bottles on hillier courses than most of their domestiques.

I'm sure that they are paying Dominik Nerz a great deal more than Buchmann's initial contract cost.

Yes, it's pretty strange, but sometimes the German cycling culture can be a bit odd, it's all about sprints and time trials, if you aren't good at those 2 things you're going to have a hard time, there aren't many races for a young pure climbers on German soil.
There's the Deutsche Bergmeisterschaften (German mountain NC, sometimes it's a RR, sometimes an ITT, sometimes a mixture of both like the Escalada a Montjuïc and in 2011 they had a MTT on day 1 and on the 2nd they they had an uphill Pursuit race, a big like XC Skiing) but usually young German gc prospects have big engines and are great ITT riders who happen to be pretty thin and light, Herklotz and Kämna, who just like Buchmann have also won the Deutsche Bergmeisterschaften in the U23 ranks, are 2 prime examples.
Bora have a few really interesting German and Austrian prospects, Patrick Konrad has also been a great signing.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Bora have a few really interesting German and Austrian prospects, Patrick Konrad has also been a great signing.

Yes they do. It's always hard to predict which of them will cut it in the end though. I've always kept an eye out for Lukas Postlberger, one of the least heralded of their signings, but a guy who really got his shot the hard way, traveling around scrapping for wins at random .2 races. I don't think he's outstandingly brilliant at any one discipline, but is a very useful all-rounder.

 

[armchairclimber]

Well, the tour is full of little surprises. Regardless of whether or not you like him or (clinic) ... Froome showed himself to be an instinctive racer today....and not for the first time. It looked to me that he had learned the lesson from watching Bardet's move last year and spent all day defending against a repeat....then decided, on a whim..."hey, I can do that". He's certainly no wheel sucking, data obsessed robot anyway. Don't like him much but I have to respect him.

 

[cineteq]

Valverde: "The other teams helped in the chase too late, they all want to win the Tour but the in the end we always work the same."

He's right, where was Bardet or BMC?

 

[bassano]

I just meant a liability in terms of stopping the team from getting the most out of the Tour - IF he were to insist on riders like Majka and Kreuziger slaving for him all day.

Of course, if he is prepared to just ride by himself, with no real team support, he's not a liability whatsoever. In fact, if he recovers he could be of great assistance to Sagan, Majka and Kreuziger in their aspirations - and could even get a stage win himself.

At the moment though, he is a liability as a team leader. Most of the team should really get behind Sagan now, with Kreuziger and Majka having free roles to do their thing.

He told Kreuziger to go for GC for himself and clearly Majka already had a free role - what more can he do? Should he start slaving for them or what?

Would be nice if he could put his ego aside and give something back to someone as loyal as Kreuziger. But I don't think we should hold our breath on that.

Why exactly Contador should sacrifice himself for Kreuziger right now, Kreuziger can not win Tour and he can not podium even, to fight for top 5, more probably top 10 is pointless for tinkoff, and it is also a little nonsense
save Contador as far as possible is still their best chance

 

[armchairclimber]

Valverde: "The other teams helped in the chase too late, they all want to win the Tour but the in the end we always work the same."

He's right, where was Bardet or BMC?

Bardet was conspicuously coasting. Probably a sensible move.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Unfortunately I have to agree with all of this. Contador is a liability at the moment. Tinkoff is actually having a decent tour: Sagan is on fire as usual, Majka leading the KOM and Kreuziger going well in the GC. This side showing surrounding Contador needs to stop.

Sure, he's the most talented GC rider on the team and the nominal leader. But he's clearly way below the performance level needed, for whatever reason. The team is 100% correct to change their priorities.

Why is he a liability? A waste of bottles, rice cakes and gels or what?
He's just "there". Hanging on at the back trying to lose as little time as possible. I don't see how that qualifies him as a "friggin burden" or a liability.

Contador is still the greatest GT rider of this generation (at least if we consider generation to be based over ten years and not five) and deserves respect from his team and from the fans in general. Why shouldn't he be allowed to ride his own race when he is still at least semi competitive (it's not like he is giving up half an hour on stages like Nibali)? It's a similar situation to the '04 Tour with Jan Ullrich. T-Mobile had Kloden (Kreuziger) and Zabel (Sagan), but the team still allowed Jan to fight through his difficulties in the pyrenees (where he was sick), and then he fought back and was very strong in the alps and ended up nearly on the podium in Paris. Not saying that Alberto will accomplish such a feat here, but it's not out of the question. Wouldn't want to lose more than a minute on stage 9 though.

As for Froome; semi epic stage win. Brilliant tactically. I love that he took the points earlier off Majka. I believe that this was part of his grand plan for his later attack. From memory he also did something similar at this years Tour Down Under.

I don't think that his stage win holds any great bearing on his overall race chances against Quintana though. Nairo may well be stronger uphill. Not sure if tonight shall provide an answer on that, but Ventoux certainly will.

Oh, and go Richie! Show them all what you are made of on Arcalis!

 

[movingtarget]

Just watched the stage :lol:

Well done Froome. You just shut down a lot of people.

Incredible mistake by Quintana though.

Valverde is a special breed, my my....

Valverde gives new meaning to the word flexibility !

 

[movingtarget]

Valverde: "The other teams helped in the chase too late, they all want to win the Tour but the in the end we always work the same."

He's right, where was Bardet or BMC?

The whole group are responsible not just Bardet and BMC but how much do Movistar want to win the Tour if they quibble about chasing one rider on a short descent ?

 

[Tank Engine]

Just watched the stage :lol:

Well done Froome. You just shut down a lot of people.

Incredible mistake by Quintana though.

Valverde is a special breed, my my....

I was out all day yesterday and am just catching up. It was fairly predictable, until the Froome attack on the descent. He must have read all the comments on the previous stage that he has never won a stage in the Tour on a descent, so he just had to tick that box.

It's not a huge blow in the scheme of things, the first big showdown will come on Arcalis today

 

[Ataraxus]

Valverde: "The other teams helped in the chase too late, they all want to win the Tour but the in the end we always work the same."

He's right, where was Bardet or BMC?

Tell Valverde the workload is shared in proportion to the odds of winning the Tour.
Even Cav wants to win the Tour for that matter. What is he complaining about.

 

[Kokoso]

and from now on Kreuziger will be their GC leader.

I don't think anybody really said that. He's just doing his race until now.