2016 Tour de Suisse, 11-19 June

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Suisse often has pretty poor racing compared to Dauphine, imagine Contador, Froome, Bardet, Porte etc. duking it out on these gradients. So yes, most of the times it definitely means better racing IMO.

It really doesn't mean better racing, what makes you think those guys would of made this race more entertaining? They would of all still waited until the final couple of K's to do anything and something like Gorka almost stealing the GC today just wouldn't of happened with the stronger teams those riders would of brought.
It's not the riders who are to blame for less than top shelf racing in this race

I addressed that some point in one of my earlier posts, probably a few pages down by now and I agree. Its definitely not the riders fault, but its obvious that when you have a field where everyone is close to each other, people get cautious (even more with Rettenbachferner).

Anyways, its highly subjective. I'll take the Tour over any race any day unless its a 2012 debacle again.

To the bolded we find common ground

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Suisse often has pretty poor racing compared to Dauphine, imagine Contador, Froome, Bardet, Porte etc. duking it out on these gradients. So yes, most of the times it definitely means better racing IMO.

It really doesn't mean better racing, what makes you think those guys would of made this race more entertaining? They would of all still waited until the final couple of K's to do anything and something like Gorka almost stealing the GC today just wouldn't of happened with the stronger teams those riders would of brought.
It's not the riders who are to blame for less than top shelf racing in this race

I addressed that some point in one of my earlier posts, probably a few pages down by now and I agree. Its definitely not the riders fault, but its obvious that when you have a field where everyone is close to each other, people get cautious (even more with Rettenbachferner).

Anyways, its highly subjective. I'll take the Tour over any race any day unless its a 2012 debacle again.

2013 was extremely boring except the crosswind stage.
2014 was boring after stage 10 as well.
2015 was boring from PSM as well.Cobbles stage was also disappointing(I know the cobbles were easier but still)
In Pra Loup Movistar ruined a perfect chance .Also in La Touissoure Quintana just waited and ruined a perfect chance.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Suisse often has pretty poor racing compared to Dauphine, imagine Contador, Froome, Bardet, Porte etc. duking it out on these gradients. So yes, most of the times it definitely means better racing IMO.

It really doesn't mean better racing, what makes you think those guys would of made this race more entertaining? They would of all still waited until the final couple of K's to do anything and something like Gorka almost stealing the GC today just wouldn't of happened with the stronger teams those riders would of brought.
It's not the riders who are to blame for less than top shelf racing in this race

I addressed that some point in one of my earlier posts, probably a few pages down by now and I agree. Its definitely not the riders fault, but its obvious that when you have a field where everyone is close to each other, people get cautious (even more with Rettenbachferner).

Anyways, its highly subjective. I'll take the Tour over any race any day unless its a 2012 debacle again.

2013 was extremely boring except the crosswind stage.
2014 was boring after stage 10 as well.
2015 was boring from PSM as well.Cobbles stage was also disappointing(I know the cobbles were easier but still)
In Pra Loup Movistar ruined a perfect chance .Also in La Touissoure Quintana just waited and ruined a perfect chance.

yeah, no cycling happiness without strong contador

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

Lol it's funny that most of the Kelderman hate, or at least the fiercest criticism, comes from Dutch people. Being a Dutch professional athlete really is a thankless job. For some reason Dutch people only appreciate their athletes when they win in a very dominant fashion with aggressive tactics, but unfortunately the only place where that happens nowadays is ice skating

I rather have him lose by being aggresive then riding like frickin Leipheimer.

The worst TdSuisse was when Leipheimer won. This looks like a repeat.

Yes this attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. You bring it out much more authentically than I ever could!

Johan Cruyff and Sven Kramer are the only athletes we can love

Better to lose 3 to 0 than to park the bus. Who wants to be a Levi Leipheimer? Honour is more important than winning.

No love for Vos, or Ruud and Marco for that matter, had to google Sven Kramer, boring sport

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Not anymore, Weening on his way to the victory

What? Roompot to win two stages in the same day, one of thema MTF finish at WT level?

Weening was a great signing for the team, he is reliable and is a classic opportunist

Certainly. Orica wanted to keep him, but Weening wanted to ride for himself now that he felt he could still be able to win races.

Spot on with this - Weening and OGE parted on good terms - Weening holds a special place in OGE's heart as he won their MTF in a GT.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Suisse often has pretty poor racing compared to Dauphine, imagine Contador, Froome, Bardet, Porte etc. duking it out on these gradients. So yes, most of the times it definitely means better racing IMO.

Not true. There's a reason those smaller races with few to no big guns are often much more entertaining and attacked. The reason this race is looking dreadful is because of the parcours. 2014 was pretty entertaining and, even though there were still 3 GC stages back to back, it had no real big names innnit. The big guns also missed the move which made the 2014 Dauphiné so good. This race parcours has nothing redeemable, not even all the Contadors of this world could turn it into a nice race. You'd still have a group of favourites strolling together to the line. A smaller one, but a group regardless. Those names you mention are not immune to stage backloading. The smartest thing for a rider to do here is to attack the least possible

2014 and 2015 Dauphine were classes above Suisse in those same years. Simply put. The Contador v Froome duel in 2014 was epic and is brought up almost on a daily basis, pretty big testament to the racing.
Froome was behind in 2015 and the went after it the last 2 stages. Someone probably founds it boring, but I really enjoy the Sky-trains when Froome is up to it instead of the soft-pedalling, pointless weak attacks etc. we often otherwise gets to see on MTFs. Not mentioning the extremely good stage to Vercors including Nibali, Costa, Valverde etc.

Ill take big names above everything else. Not necessarily because the racing is super much better if at all, it can be argued, but its always much more fun (to me) to see the big guns. Now, I know that you are somewhat of a cycling hipster (is it ok to call you that?) based on the many posts I've read of yours in the last year, so obviously you would disagree with me here.

I'm not a cycling hipster. Ew.

 

[yaco]

Expect tomorrow's stage to again feature the breakaway, though Sunday's stage will probably go to GC riders.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Suisse often has pretty poor racing compared to Dauphine, imagine Contador, Froome, Bardet, Porte etc. duking it out on these gradients. So yes, most of the times it definitely means better racing IMO.

It really doesn't mean better racing, what makes you think those guys would of made this race more entertaining? They would of all still waited until the final couple of K's to do anything and something like Gorka almost stealing the GC today just wouldn't of happened with the stronger teams those riders would of brought.
It's not the riders who are to blame for less than top shelf racing in this race

I addressed that some point in one of my earlier posts, probably a few pages down by now and I agree. Its definitely not the riders fault, but its obvious that when you have a field where everyone is close to each other, people get cautious (even more with Rettenbachferner).

Anyways, its highly subjective. I'll take the Tour over any race any day unless its a 2012 debacle again.

2013 was extremely boring except the crosswind stage.
2014 was boring after stage 10 as well.
2015 was boring from PSM as well.Cobbles stage was also disappointing(I know the cobbles were easier but still)
In Pra Loup Movistar ruined a perfect chance .Also in La Touissoure Quintana just waited and ruined a perfect chance.

yeah, no cycling happiness without strong contador

If a great GC competition is one in which there remains considerable uncertainty as to who will win until the very end, then they were boring, all of them. In other words, dominance is boring. Stages like Ax3 and PSM were terrific because they ended up answering the question as to who the strongest rider is, but they gave such definite answers that there was little intrigue left as to who would win.

Of course, you're probably right that if only you changed who won those Tours, leaving everything else the same, some who decry them as horrible Tours would be celebrating them as some of the best ever.

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

Suisse often has pretty poor racing compared to Dauphine, imagine Contador, Froome, Bardet, Porte etc. duking it out on these gradients. So yes, most of the times it definitely means better racing IMO.

Not true. There's a reason those smaller races with few to no big guns are often much more entertaining and attacked. The reason this race is looking dreadful is because of the parcours. 2014 was pretty entertaining and, even though there were still 3 GC stages back to back, it had no real big names innnit. The big guns also missed the move which made the 2014 Dauphiné so good. This race parcours has nothing redeemable, not even all the Contadors of this world could turn it into a nice race. You'd still have a group of favourites strolling together to the line. A smaller one, but a group regardless. Those names you mention are not immune to stage backloading. The smartest thing for a rider to do here is to attack the least possible

2014 and 2015 Dauphine were classes above Suisse in those same years. Simply put. The Contador v Froome duel in 2014 was epic and is brought up almost on a daily basis, pretty big testament to the racing.
Froome was behind in 2015 and the went after it the last 2 stages. Someone probably founds it boring, but I really enjoy the Sky-trains when Froome is up to it instead of the soft-pedalling, pointless weak attacks etc. we often otherwise gets to see on MTFs. Not mentioning the extremely good stage to Vercors including Nibali, Costa, Valverde etc.

Ill take big names above everything else. Not necessarily because the racing is super much better if at all, it can be argued, but its always much more fun (to me) to see the big guns. Now, I know that you are somewhat of a cycling hipster (is it ok to call you that?) based on the many posts I've read of yours in the last year, so obviously you would disagree with me here.

Well I prefer to watch good unpredictable racing, not fussed if the big guys turn up or not

I'm the opposite. I mostly like seeing the very best in the world smash it. If I want to see close, unpredictable racing I can go watch the Cat 4 crit on Tuesday nights. I do like seeing heroic victories (and failures), though, where somebody, whoever they are, clearly leaves it all out there.

 

[BigMac]

Prefering to watch races with the big names in them just because, well, they are big names, regardless if they produce a godawful contest, doesn't make much sense.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

Cmon guys, wilco was at his limit like the others today, and he has never climbed with the best in the last 2 years, it´s normal his lack of confidence. He is the best Time triallist of the Gc guys (better than talansky in my opinion) wit the super Bianchi TT bike, there are others riders that should attack.

And sometimes he doesn´t ride in a defensive way, In garratxtu he attacked at the beginning of the climb for example.

 

[Red Rick]

Kelderman just said that he'd like to win Suisse.

HE SAID IT

 

[liamito]

He is the best Time triallist of the Gc guys (better than talansky in my opinion) wit the super Bianchi TT bike, there are others riders that should attack.

I really hope (for Kelderman) the weather will be better for the TT.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Suisse often has pretty poor racing compared to Dauphine, imagine Contador, Froome, Bardet, Porte etc. duking it out on these gradients. So yes, most of the times it definitely means better racing IMO.

It really doesn't mean better racing, what makes you think those guys would of made this race more entertaining? They would of all still waited until the final couple of K's to do anything and something like Gorka almost stealing the GC today just wouldn't of happened with the stronger teams those riders would of brought.
It's not the riders who are to blame for less than top shelf racing in this race

I addressed that some point in one of my earlier posts, probably a few pages down by now and I agree. Its definitely not the riders fault, but its obvious that when you have a field where everyone is close to each other, people get cautious (even more with Rettenbachferner).

Anyways, its highly subjective. I'll take the Tour over any race any day unless its a 2012 debacle again.

2013 was extremely boring except the crosswind stage.
2014 was boring after stage 10 as well.
2015 was boring from PSM as well.Cobbles stage was also disappointing(I know the cobbles were easier but still)
In Pra Loup Movistar ruined a perfect chance .Also in La Touissoure Quintana just waited and ruined a perfect chance.

yeah, no cycling happiness without strong contador

I am a fan of Nibali as well.But after stage 10 it was boring.
Also if Contador had won like Froome I would have said the exact same thing.

 

[arbon]

My 1st post .
Just wanted to draw attention to Richeze he won stage 4 in tight sprint, He came 2nd today on @^%*! mountain stage.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Kelderman just said that he'd like to win Suisse.

HE SAID IT

Oh crap.. not again. When he took yellow in Pais Vasco he said he felt REALLY STRONG and lost yellow the day after big time.

Ofcourse if he said anything else that would've been ridiculous.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

My 1st post .
Just wanted to draw attention to Richeze he won stage 4 in tight sprint, He came 2nd today on @^%*! mountain stage.

Well some people said why he was selected for road race in Rio. Well now everyone knows why.
I knew he rode over climbs pretty well, but he exceeded my expectations today. Ofcourse the breakaway was quite poor regarding climbing today, but this was pretty neat for sure!

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

My 1st post .
Just wanted to draw attention to Richeze he won stage 4 in tight sprint, He came 2nd today on @^%*! mountain stage.

Well some people said why he was selected for road race in Rio. Well now everyone knows why.
I knew he rode over climbs pretty well, but he exceeded my expectations today. Ofcourse the breakaway was quite poor regarding climbing today, but this was pretty neat for sure!

He really did surprise, but he was really strong in stage 2 as well (the one where Sagan attacked on the climb) if I recall? Impressive rider

 

[winkybiker]

Re:

Prefering to watch races with the big names in them just because, well, they are big names, regardless if they produce a godawful contest, doesn't make much sense.

No you've misunderstood. I don't really like watching the big names if they lose or act cowardly. I like to see them win. Dominantly, or in close contest with other big names. We all create heroes and villains arbitrarily in our sports viewing. We care about them if we know, or relate to them; they're from our town/country, they're related to us or a myriad of other reasons. For me someone becomes a hero if they demonstrate talent, persistence and intelligence. When they do this, they, by default become a big name (unless they are women not named Marianne). A lucky "zaugg" (i.e. win in a major race/stage because the peloton couldn't be bothered to chase) is pretty unsatisfying to me. I have no interest in watching a close race containing no-one I care about, regardless of how arbitrary that "care" might be.

If the quality/closeness of the contest was the draw, we'd maybe be happy watching lower-level racing. No, I want to watch the very best, at the peak of their game.

 

[winkybiker]

Tejay has come out with his excuse. Basically, he's awesome, but it was cold.

 

[webvan]

And last year at the TDF when he went AWOL it was too hot? And at the Vuelta? Tejay is such whiner...

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Kelderman just said that he'd like to win Suisse.

HE SAID IT

Oh crap.. not again. When he took yellow in Pais Vasco he said he felt REALLY STRONG and lost yellow the day after big time.

Ofcourse if he said anything else that would've been ridiculous.

Yeah, but much easier competition this time. Kelderman is in pole position this time - he wasn't in Pais Vasco despite wearing the leader's jersey.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

Tejay has come out with his excuse. Basically, he's awesome, but it was cold.

Well ofcourse. He is a "4 out of 5 star rider" for the Tour

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

LOL Big G cracked

That is sweet coming from Scarponi

To be honest, on stages like this I just hope that he can hold on and am happy when he does, even after his switch in focus to stage racing (I still wish he was a classics man). I was more surprised when Rui Costa and TJ got dropped. Talansky was stonger today, so things can switch around. However, tomorrow I expect that Keldermann will be defending against Barguil and Lopez, who need to gain time before the TT.

Due to the weather and the hard finishes, it has been a complete war of attrition. Due to this and the lack of a dominant rider, I'm not surprised that they're looking at each other.

Congratulations to Weening for an impressive win, but Richeze has been outstanding all week.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Because of the cold and rain, this stage was for people who carried a little bit more of fat for insulation and fueling purposes whereas skinny cyclists like G & TJ cracked.