2016 Vuelta a España, stage 17: Castellón > Mas de la Costa

[carton]

Re: Re:

BMC riding to protect their margin over the fourth ranked team in the teams classification. That is one of those things where the chasm between an objetive's importance to teams/managers, and it's importance to fans, is just beyond gaping.

what does bmc chasing has to do with katusha. they are fighting movistar for 1st place.

You're right, I have no earthly idea what ranking I was looking at that had IAM 4th. In any case, the gap between interest and importance placed on the teams classification is yawning.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Contadors expression in the interview exudes disappointment

 

[huangho]

Re: Re:

So Froome really would have won this Vuelta if he hadn't been stupid enough to ride 40 wheels down from Quintana at the start of Sunday huh?

Don't think so, Quintana is super strong and he spent a lot of energy that day, so today with the energy saved he would have done a lot of damage, not for 1 minute, but maybe 30 seconds more...

In the ITT he will be closer to Froome than expected.

Nope. Would have made no difference with a flat stage and rest day in between especially seeing as Contador and Froome also both road themselves into the ground on Sunday, so clearly Sunday had no negative effect whatsoever on Quintana's ability than the rest of the GC contenders today. He's just much less dominant (at least over Froome) then people like to think. He is the best, but only marginally. He cannot dominate on the climbs properly, though he is the strongest and deserves overall victory

Remember that the day before he tried like 8 times to get rid of CF and it seemed to me that it made like 30 seconds gap on Formigal the day after.

CF has spent a lot of energy between TDF and Olympics, NQ was sick on TDF and he skipped Olympics, so it means that Quintana is fresher than CF ATM, on even forces it makes a lot of difference. Is a matter of momentum, he is stronger than CF today, CF is only protecting its podium spot, we'll see how good he will be on ITT.

 

[el chava]

Re: 2016 Vuelta a España, stage 17: Castellón > Mas de la Co

As underwhelming as Fleche Wallone. Bad idea with this kind of short novelty MTF. The opposite of epicness to me.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

His level is so far above the others it's ridiculous. Bigger gap between him and the rest here, than there was between Froome and the rest at the Tour.

It is funny how wrong you are. His level above Froome currently is nowhere near Froome's above the rest in the Tour. Nowhere near.

Hmmm, not sure whether or not you are an objective source. If there were as many multiple mountain stages in the Vuelta as there were in the Tour, Quintana would be well over 5 minutes ahead by now. Froome is hanging on by a thread right now; may not even make the podium.

Neither are you an objetive source. We are both biased, but I am trying to be logical and seeing as Quintana was repeatedly dropped by Froome at the Tour but has not been able to properly drop him recently it is clear that your statement was incorrect

Froome gained very little time in the mountains on Bardet, Quintana, Valverde or Porte in the Tour. He won the the race in the time trials and used his team to defend the high mountain stages. Quintana's gained four minutes in the mountains alone and has comprehensively dropped Froome three times, without being dropped once.[/quote]

How do you get to Quintana gaining 4 minutes in mountinas alone. He has gained nowhere near that amount of time.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Contadors expression in the interview exudes disappointment

I thought he could have gone a bit earlier today. It's easier to say in hindsight of course, and he has blown up doing that in previous stages; but such a late attack meant there was pretty limted gains to be had, even if it worked. Perhaps he didn't realize just quite how much Froome is on the brink right now.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Froome gained very little time in the mountains on Bardet, Quintana, Valverde or Porte in the Tour. He won the the race in the time trials and used his team to defend the high mountain stages. Quintana's gained four minutes in the mountains alone and has comprehensively dropped Froome three times, without being dropped once.

How do you get to Quintana gaining 4 minutes in mountinas alone. He has gained nowhere near that amount of time.

I must have missed the flat stage where he gained the bulk of his time then.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Contadors expression in the interview exudes disappointment

Of course, no time gain, no stage win... waste of an effort

 

[Jungle Cycle]

I like AC+Quintana friendship...

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Froome did not dare go on the attack. Did he miss that he is not in red?

Quintana just following as he should.

Good ride by Chaves and Contador who actually tried anything.

Erm, Froome was gapped on a couple of occasions. Probably why he wasn't going on the attack...

 

[Escarabajo]

Everyone looks tired. Good that the Vuelta put the best stages in the second week.

Saturday stage looks interesting fight for podium. And for once we don't get a murito!

 

[Enrico Gimondi]

I'll give Talansky credit. In my opinion he will never be a top GC guy and he had a rough season last year. But he is still out there fighting every stage with solid finishes. Sitting in 6th overall right now.

 

[JRanton]

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Quintana is going at a leisurely pace I think

His level is so far above the others it's ridiculous. Bigger gap between him and the rest here, than there was between Froome and the rest at the Tour.

Didn't really seem that way on Aubisque though, or Peña Cabarga

Quintana's attacks on the Aubisque took a lot more out of Froome than some people believed at the time. You could see the affect already on stage 15 where Quintana was significantly stronger than Froome.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Froome gained very little time in the mountains on Bardet, Quintana, Valverde or Porte in the Tour. He won the the race in the time trials and used his team to defend the high mountain stages. Quintana's gained four minutes in the mountains alone and has comprehensively dropped Froome three times, without being dropped once.

How do you get to Quintana gaining 4 minutes in mountinas alone. He has gained nowhere near that amount of time.

I must have missed the flat stage where he gained the bulk of his time then.

So Froome won the Tour in time trials and was actively using his teammates to defend in the mountains, whilst Quintana beatifully put into Froome 3' mano-a-mano not using his teammates in direct mountain battle last Sunday. That's great.

 

[fantomas]

Re:

GC guys classification of the stage :
1°) Contador
2°) Froome (s.t)
3°) Quintana (s.t)
4°) Chaves (s.t)
5°) Péraud (at 38")
6°) Hermans (at 48")
7°) Scarponi (at 49")
8°) Talansky (at 51")
9°) Mamykin (at 53")
10°) Formolo (at 56")
11°) Yates (at 56")

Great day for Astana. Scarponi back in 9th overall.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

So Froome really would have won this Vuelta if he hadn't been stupid enough to ride 40 wheels down from Quintana at the start of Sunday huh?

Well we don't know how quintana would have ridden todays stage if he would still need to gain time.

That climb wasn't hard enough to create serious gaps (more than 20 odd seconds), and neither is stage 20

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Froome gained very little time in the mountains on Bardet, Quintana, Valverde or Porte in the Tour. He won the the race in the time trials and used his team to defend the high mountain stages. Quintana's gained four minutes in the mountains alone and has comprehensively dropped Froome three times, without being dropped once.

How do you get to Quintana gaining 4 minutes in mountinas alone. He has gained nowhere near that amount of time.

I must have missed the flat stage where he gained the bulk of his time then.

So Froome won the Tour in time trials and was actively using his teammates to defend in the mountains, whilst Quintana beatifully put into Froome 3' mano-a-mano not using his teammates in direct mountain battle last Sunday. That's great.

Well, to be fair to Quintana, on that stage he rode the last 8km of a pretty flat climb solo, after being in the break all day, and put about 40 seconds into Froome during that time. Froome didn't do anything like that in the Tour he just sat behind Poels and Nieve and consolidated. And that was the day after Quintana was wheelsucked up the Aubisque by Froome. If there would have been more tough multiple mountain stages, like in the Tour, I think Froome would struggle to hang onto a top 5 position. Without the TTT he would already be down to third and hanging onto the podium by 10 seconds.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

So Froome really would have won this Vuelta if he hadn't been stupid enough to ride 40 wheels down from Quintana at the start of Sunday huh?

Well we don't know how quintana would have ridden todays stage if he would still need to gain time.

That climb wasn't hard enough to create serious gaps (more than 20 odd seconds), and neither is stage 20

Quintana gained 33 seconds in La Camperona and he only attacked with about 1 kilometer to go.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Froome gained very little time in the mountains on Bardet, Quintana, Valverde or Porte in the Tour. He won the the race in the time trials and used his team to defend the high mountain stages. Quintana's gained four minutes in the mountains alone and has comprehensively dropped Froome three times, without being dropped once.

How do you get to Quintana gaining 4 minutes in mountinas alone. He has gained nowhere near that amount of time.

I must have missed the flat stage where he gained the bulk of his time then.

So Froome won the Tour in time trials and was actively using his teammates to defend in the mountains, whilst Quintana beatifully put into Froome 3' mano-a-mano not using his teammates in direct mountain battle last Sunday. That's great.

Well, to be fair to Quintana, on that stage he rode the last 8km of a pretty flat climb solo, after being in the break all day, and put about 40 seconds into Froome during that time. Froome didn't do anything like that in the Tour he just sat behind Poels and Nieve and consolidated. And that was the day after Quintana was wheelsucked up the Aubisque by Froome. If there would have been more tough multiple mountain stages, like in the Tour, I think Froome would struggle to hang onto a top 5 position. Without the TTT he would already be down to third and hanging onto the podium by 10 seconds.

alright, i might agree with that. in a nutshell, what's your agenda on them? nairo is a way better climber?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

So Froome won the Tour in time trials and was actively using his teammates to defend in the mountains, whilst Quintana beatifully put into Froome 3' mano-a-mano not using his teammates in direct mountain battle last Sunday. That's great.

Well, to be fair to Quintana, on that stage he rode the last 8km of a pretty flat climb solo, after being in the break all day, and put about 40 seconds into Froome during that time. Froome didn't do anything like that in the Tour he just sat behind Poels and Nieve and consolidated. And that was the day after Quintana was wheelsucked up the Aubisque by Froome. If there would have been more tough multiple mountain stages, like in the Tour, I think Froome would struggle to hang onto a top 5 position. Without the TTT he would already be down to third and hanging onto the podium by 10 seconds.

alright, i might agree with that. in a nutshell, what's your agenda on them? nairo is a way better climber?

Not necessarily. I think at their respective best Froome is the slightly better climber. But he can't hold that level for anywhere near as long as Quintana. So perhaps he's got the better peak (one or two stages in a GT for example), while Quintana has the better base level. The problem for Quintana is that he's got to overcome Froome's peak level at the Tour - which, combined with the difference in TT ability and team strength, looks impossible for the forseeable future.

To be honest, I've been a bit surprised just how strong Quintana has been this Vuelta - especially after he seemed off-form for whatever reason at the tour. It seems that something went really wrong with his preparation. Froome's big drop in performance was much more predictable, because we've seen it all before.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

So Froome won the Tour in time trials and was actively using his teammates to defend in the mountains, whilst Quintana beatifully put into Froome 3' mano-a-mano not using his teammates in direct mountain battle last Sunday. That's great.

Well, to be fair to Quintana, on that stage he rode the last 8km of a pretty flat climb solo, after being in the break all day, and put about 40 seconds into Froome during that time. Froome didn't do anything like that in the Tour he just sat behind Poels and Nieve and consolidated. And that was the day after Quintana was wheelsucked up the Aubisque by Froome. If there would have been more tough multiple mountain stages, like in the Tour, I think Froome would struggle to hang onto a top 5 position. Without the TTT he would already be down to third and hanging onto the podium by 10 seconds.

alright, i might agree with that. in a nutshell, what's your agenda on them? nairo is a way better climber?

Not necessarily. I think at their respective best Froome is the slightly better climber. But he can't hold that level for anywhere near as long as Quintana. So perhaps he's got the better peak (one or two stages in a GT for example), while Quintana has the better base level. The problem for Quintana is that he's got to overcome Froome's peak level at the Tour - which, combined with the difference in TT ability and team strength, looks impossible for the forseeable future.

To be honest, I've been a bit surprised just how strong Quintana has been this Vuelta - especially after he seemed off-form for whatever reason at the tour. It seems that something went really wrong with his preparation. Froome's big drop in performance was much more predictable, because we've seen it all before.

It might not have been bad preparation. Those windy flat days at the Tour probably took more out of Quintana than Froome.

 

[huangho]

Now Orica has only one bullet in the chamber, Chaves has to do something to secure his podium spot to AC, he can't just sit there to wait ITT!

AC is fighting for red, but NQ is very solid there and ITT wouldn't be enough, so top 3 is the only emotion left for all of us.

CF is not going to fight for red it seems, he just doesn' have the legs to drop NQ 1 minute in mountains ATM.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

I like AC+Quintana friendship...

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

So Froome won the Tour in time trials and was actively using his teammates to defend in the mountains, whilst Quintana beatifully put into Froome 3' mano-a-mano not using his teammates in direct mountain battle last Sunday. That's great.

Well, to be fair to Quintana, on that stage he rode the last 8km of a pretty flat climb solo, after being in the break all day, and put about 40 seconds into Froome during that time. Froome didn't do anything like that in the Tour he just sat behind Poels and Nieve and consolidated. And that was the day after Quintana was wheelsucked up the Aubisque by Froome. If there would have been more tough multiple mountain stages, like in the Tour, I think Froome would struggle to hang onto a top 5 position. Without the TTT he would already be down to third and hanging onto the podium by 10 seconds.

alright, i might agree with that. in a nutshell, what's your agenda on them? nairo is a way better climber?

Not necessarily. I think at their respective best Froome is the slightly better climber. But he can't hold that level for anywhere near as long as Quintana. So perhaps he's got the better peak (one or two stages in a GT for example), while Quintana has the better base level. The problem for Quintana is that he's got to overcome Froome's peak level at the Tour - which, combined with the difference in TT ability and team strength, looks impossible for the forseeable future.

To be honest, I've been a bit surprised just how strong Quintana has been this Vuelta - especially after he seemed off-form for whatever reason at the tour. It seems that something went really wrong with his preparation. Froome's big drop in performance was much more predictable, because we've seen it all before.

It might not have been bad preparation. Those windy flat days at the Tour probably took more out of Quintana than Froome.

That's certainly a possibility, but then you'd have thought it would have taken a lot out of most GC contenders. Froome being something of an exception because of his size. Quintana is a better TTist and significantly better high mountain climber than Adam Yates, for example, so it's still strange that his level was so poor relative to other GC contenders - not just Froome.

Could also have been something as simple as illness, or some lingering virus I guess. But he just looks a completely different and much fresher rider now. Valverde has often looked stronger in his second GT in recent years as well, so I wonder if there is something that Movistar aren't quite nailing regarding the preparation for 1st tour of the year.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I like AC+Quintana friendship...

https://twitter.com/AlexandreMignot/status/773552880297058304