2016 Vuelta, stage 4: Betanzos > San Andrés de Teixido

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Re: Re:

CheckMyPecs said:
Breh said:
portugal11 said:
Movistar is so stupid... they were burning fernandez for nothing, or they really think that valverde could make the difference in a 200 m uphill sprint?
If you drop that early it's not because Movistar is 'burning' him, it is because hes not good enough.
TV cameras showed him slaving away for Valverde in the lead-up to the climb, so we've got objective proof Movistar burned him.
Were you expecting Fernandez to win the Vuelta or something?
 
Re: Re:

BigMac said:
Fernandez said:
These forums are full of subnormales, Im done. Goodbike.
What does this mean and what are you referring to?
Its just I though these forums were for speaking about cycling with some kind of seriousness. Instead, its plenty of haters and crazy blind fans like Justin Bieber fans. Im tired of reading ***, so goodbye.
 
Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Valv.Piti said:
Just about the most versatile GC-rider in the world :eek:
Yeah.

He can sprint from 200 m.
He can sprint from 201 m.
He can sprint from 199 m... :eek:
Yeah, I never understood where people got this idea from that he's so versatile.

He can climb and sprint well. Since climbers are usually notoriously bad at sprinting someone like Valverde really stands out and can win a lot of races by simply surviving the hills/climbs. That's it basically.

Vincenzo Nibali, for example, is better at climbing, descending, cobbles and time trials. But because he lacks a sprint it's harder for him to win the same amount of races. We saw at the Olympic Road Race who was the better one of the two though. A shame he crashed, but he was risking everything for gold, not bronze or silver (like Valverde would have done).

Is Boonen versatile because he can "only" sprint and ride over cobbles really well? I've seen many people call Boonen one-dimensional.
Claiming that Valverde is not versatile is one of the most ridiculous thing I have read on here.

Valverde does well on:
- muritos
- long and steady climbs
- sprints
- downhill
- cobbles
- decent on TT
- has great recovery

Name one thing that he doesnt do well. He is the most versatile cyclist in thd peleton, and I don't think its even close. He is basically a Nibali just with a sprint and slightly lower top level on long and steady climbs
 
Re: Re:

damian13ster said:
El Pistolero said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Valv.Piti said:
Just about the most versatile GC-rider in the world :eek:
Yeah.

He can sprint from 200 m.
He can sprint from 201 m.
He can sprint from 199 m... :eek:
Yeah, I never understood where people got this idea from that he's so versatile.

He can climb and sprint well. Since climbers are usually notoriously bad at sprinting someone like Valverde really stands out and can win a lot of races by simply surviving the hills/climbs. That's it basically.

Vincenzo Nibali, for example, is better at climbing, descending, cobbles and time trials. But because he lacks a sprint it's harder for him to win the same amount of races. We saw at the Olympic Road Race who was the better one of the two though. A shame he crashed, but he was risking everything for gold, not bronze or silver (like Valverde would have done).

Is Boonen versatile because he can "only" sprint and ride over cobbles really well? I've seen many people call Boonen one-dimensional.
Claiming that Valverde is not versatile is one of the most ridiculous thing I have read on here.

Valverde does well on:
- muritos
- long and steady climbs
- sprints
- downhill
- cobbles
- decent on TT
- has great recovery

Name one thing that he doesnt do well. He is the most versatile cyclist in thd peleton, and I don't think its even close. He is basically a Nibali just with a sprint and slightly lower top level on long and steady climbs
as a climber he's limited from a certain height on, we saw that in the Giro. Just like Contador last year in the Giro ...
 
Re: Re:

damian13ster said:
- has very good recovery
FTFY. I agree with the gist of you're argument, but his recovery isn't "great" like LeMond (or Quintana). Not even excellent like Froomey. He usually has a jour sans. That's why he's tied in GT wins with JuanJo Cobo and Chris Horner behind Gilberto Simoni despite being the best all-around rider of the Kelly-Sagan interregnum.
 
Re: Re:

carton said:
damian13ster said:
- has very good recovery
FTFY. I agree with the gist of you're argument, but his recovery isn't "great" like LeMond (or Quintana). Not even excellent like Froomey. He usually has a jour sans. That's why he's tied in GT wins with JuanJo Cobo and Chris Horner behind Gilberto Simoni despite being the best all-around rider of the Kelly-Sagan interregnum.
Yes, you can make that argument and I do agree with you; however, just looking at the amount of race days he does per season and the results he is getting all year long, it is clear that the man can hold high level for a long periods.
You do agree though that althouth limited in some regards (isnt that true for all all-rounders?) the guy is insanely versatile
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

damian13ster said:
El Pistolero said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Valv.Piti said:
Just about the most versatile GC-rider in the world :eek:
Yeah.

He can sprint from 200 m.
He can sprint from 201 m.
He can sprint from 199 m... :eek:
Yeah, I never understood where people got this idea from that he's so versatile.

He can climb and sprint well. Since climbers are usually notoriously bad at sprinting someone like Valverde really stands out and can win a lot of races by simply surviving the hills/climbs. That's it basically.

Vincenzo Nibali, for example, is better at climbing, descending, cobbles and time trials. But because he lacks a sprint it's harder for him to win the same amount of races. We saw at the Olympic Road Race who was the better one of the two though. A shame he crashed, but he was risking everything for gold, not bronze or silver (like Valverde would have done).

Is Boonen versatile because he can "only" sprint and ride over cobbles really well? I've seen many people call Boonen one-dimensional.
Claiming that Valverde is not versatile is one of the most ridiculous thing I have read on here.

Valverde does well on:
- muritos
- long and steady climbs
- sprints
- downhill
- cobbles
- decent on TT
- has great recovery

Name one thing that he doesnt do well. He is the most versatile cyclist in thd peleton, and I don't think its even close. He is basically a Nibali just with a sprint and slightly lower top level on long and steady climbs
Any top climber can do the bolded things... Where has he shown he's decent on cobbles? He got blown away in 2014 on the cobbles. He's average at best at all the things you listed besides climbing and sprinting. I've never seen him ride away from everyone on a descent either. He couldn't follow Nibali on the descent in the Giro di Lombardia last year or the Olympic Road Race this year... He certainly couldn't close any gap on the descents in the Giro stages or in the Tour this year.

Great recovery? He's no match for the likes of Nibali, Contador or Froome in this regard.

As for great time trial... He's average at best. I can't remember him ever winning a time trial outside of some small Spanish races with a crappy field. Didn't Kruijswijk beat him in the Giro time trial this year? :rolleyes:
 
Your Valverde-hate is sickening. Can't you make a thread describing just how much he makes you vomit instead of spreading your nonsense throughout the forum? You have literally been on the record saying you basically hate him and he makes every race you watch worse, something like that.

I like the fact you highlight Nibali being better in various areas.. for 10 days a year. Nibali doesn't have anything on Valverde the remaning 355 days.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Your Valverde-hate is sickening. Can't you make a thread describing just how much he makes you vomit instead of spreading your nonsense throughout the forum? You have literally been on the record saying you basically hate him and he makes every race you watch worse, something like that.

I like the fact you highlight Nibali being better in various areas.. for 10 days a year. Nibali doesn't have anything on Valverde the remaning 355 days.
I'll get back to you on that one. Just off to arrange a Nibali v Valverde showdown for Christmas Day.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,463
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Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Your Valverde-hate is sickening. Can't you make a thread describing just how much he makes you vomit instead of spreading your nonsense throughout the forum? You have literally been on the record saying you basically hate him and he makes every race you watch worse, something like that.

I like the fact you highlight Nibali being better in various areas.. for 10 days a year. Nibali doesn't have anything on Valverde the remaning 355 days.
Your man crush on Valverde is sickening lol. In just about any thread you call him the greatest this, the greatest that. You can't go a day without it it seems.

Not my fault you over-rate him whenever he gets another meaningless top ten place.

He's a climber with a good sprint. He's not the most versatile cyclist around. Otherwise he'd have won the Tour, Giro, Milan-San Remo, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Paris-Roubaix, Giro di Lombardia or the World Championships. Yet he won none of those races.

Tell me one race on his palmares that can't be won by a climber. :rolleyes:

In the end people only remember the big wins.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30941&hilit=nibali+vs+valverde

It's quite telling then that Nibali achieves more in those ten days than Valverde in 355 days. ;)
 
Re: Re:

silvergrenade said:
dacooley said:
when one loves a few riders, hates all other cycling superstars and herewith pretends to have some sort of objectivity, it always looks pretty comical.
This.
I am probably anti Valverde if anything, but lol at the claim that his recovery isn't great and doesn't compare to Contador, Froome and Nibali. Valverde's recovery is BETTER than those guys. The only reason why he hasn't won the GT's that they have is because his absolute top climbing level (on high mountains) isn't quite as good as their's.
 
Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Valv.Piti said:
Just about the most versatile GC-rider in the world :eek:
Yeah.

He can sprint from 200 m.
He can sprint from 201 m.
He can sprint from 199 m... :eek:
Yeah, I never understood where people got this idea from that he's so versatile.

He can climb and sprint well. Since climbers are usually notoriously bad at sprinting someone like Valverde really stands out and can win a lot of races by simply surviving the hills/climbs. That's it basically.

Vincenzo Nibali, for example, is better at climbing, descending, cobbles and time trials. But because he lacks a sprint it's harder for him to win the same amount of races. We saw at the Olympic Road Race who was the better one of the two though. A shame he crashed, but he was risking everything for gold, not bronze or silver (like Valverde would have done).

Is Boonen versatile because he can "only" sprint and ride over cobbles really well? I've seen many people call Boonen one-dimensional.
I don't agree with that. Valverde is at least on par and probably slightly better at TT'ing than Nibali.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,463
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Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet said:
El Pistolero said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Valv.Piti said:
Just about the most versatile GC-rider in the world :eek:
Yeah.

He can sprint from 200 m.
He can sprint from 201 m.
He can sprint from 199 m... :eek:
Yeah, I never understood where people got this idea from that he's so versatile.

He can climb and sprint well. Since climbers are usually notoriously bad at sprinting someone like Valverde really stands out and can win a lot of races by simply surviving the hills/climbs. That's it basically.

Vincenzo Nibali, for example, is better at climbing, descending, cobbles and time trials. But because he lacks a sprint it's harder for him to win the same amount of races. We saw at the Olympic Road Race who was the better one of the two though. A shame he crashed, but he was risking everything for gold, not bronze or silver (like Valverde would have done).

Is Boonen versatile because he can "only" sprint and ride over cobbles really well? I've seen many people call Boonen one-dimensional.
I don't agree with that. Valverde is at least on par and probably slightly better at TT'ing than Nibali.
Nibali has pretty much beaten him every single time in a Grand Tour time trial when they were competing together. It's 9-3 in Nibali's favour and we all know Nibali wasn't competing for GC at this year's Tour (he was preparing himself for the Olympics). So it actually is 9-1. I don't know where people get this idea from that Valverde is a great time trial specialist. He's average. * = winner

Tour de France 2008:

Stage 4 (ITT):
Nibali: 9th*
Valverde: 22th

Stage 20 (ITT):

Nibali: 47th
Valverde: 34th*

Tour de France 2012:

Prologue:
Nibali: 14th*
Valverde: 116th

Stage 9 (ITT):
Nibali: 8th*
Valverde: 34th

Stage 19 (ITT):
Nibali: 16th*
Valverde: 113th

Vuelta a Espana 2013:

Stage 11 (ITT):
Nibali: 4th*
Valverde: 7th

Tour de France 2014:

Stage 20 (ITT):
Nibali: 4th*
Valverde: 28th

Tour de France 2015:

Stage 1 (ITT):
Nibali: 22th*
Valverde: 43th

Giro d'Italia 2016:

Stage 1 (ITT):
Nibali: 16th*
Valverde: 23th

Stage 19 (ITT):
Nibali: 19th*
Valverde: 22th

Tour de France 2016:

Stage 13 (ITT):
Nibali: 25th
Valverde: 15th*

Stage 18 (ITT):
Nibali: 15th
Valverde: 12th*
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

gregrowlerson said:
silvergrenade said:
dacooley said:
when one loves a few riders, hates all other cycling superstars and herewith pretends to have some sort of objectivity, it always looks pretty comical.
This.
I am probably anti Valverde if anything, but lol at the claim that his recovery isn't great and doesn't compare to Contador, Froome and Nibali. Valverde's recovery is BETTER than those guys. The only reason why he hasn't won the GT's that they have is because his absolute top climbing level (on high mountains) isn't quite as good as their's.
Valverde always has more bad days in a Grand Tour than the likes of Contador, Froome or Nibali. He mostly follows wheels anyway, the 3 riders I mentioned actually attack before the final km. That increases the risk of blowing up.
 
Re: Re:

silvergrenade said:
dacooley said:
when one loves a few riders, hates all other cycling superstars and herewith pretends to have some sort of objectivity, it always looks pretty comical.
This.
disliking valverde froome or anyone else is OK, but trying to convince everyone that they are pathetic riders (when both of them are absolutely amazing riders) and imposing one's view on other forum members is humorous. :p
 

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