2017 Giro d'Italia, Stage 4: Cefalú - Etna 181 km

[Scarponi]

Wish I watched 4 Jours instead

 

[movingtarget]

First mountain stage often is a disappointment.

 

[Rollthedice]

The only unexpected thing was Polanc winning so I'm not sure what people were expecting for a windy hard MTF on the fourth stage after a rest day. Some people who are actually competing here want to win the Giro and Etna was not the place to do it.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

You'd think if the headwind was that bad though, that a solo lesser name rider wouldn't be able to win relatively comfortably despite being in the break all day.

I think its just the consequence of big climbs early in the race. No-one wants to do an early attack and risk blowing up, and nobody really wants to have to waste energy defending the MR for the next few days. A stage for the race design thread aficionados to perhaps pay attention to.

You're right, Tour designs of the noughties are they way forward

Unsurprisingly, you've missed the point. If you want GC action early in a GT you're much better off having technical classics style stages or stages with possibility of crosswinds, than high mountain stages inthe first week. Particularly high mountain stages with very few steep sections and a flattish finish.

 

[hfer07]

This is the kind of stage in the first week of a GT that Contador is sooo missed



anyways...... I expect either a breakaway winner or Landa/Pinot/G to out sprint the rest of the GC contenders with no gaps whatsoever....

What the hell? why even post crap like this?

come again?

 

[portugal11]

C'mon guys, we all know that quintana will wear the pink jersey after blockhaus so why riders didn't race to gain time and the pink jersey today? Because they are cowards and are racing for second place. The next stages are easy to control and they can give the jersey to a insignificant rider

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

The only unexpected thing was Polanc winning so I'm not sure what people were expecting for a windy hard MTF on the fourth stage after a rest day. Some people who are actually competing here want to win the Giro and Etna was not the place to do it.

Maybe but how long was Polanc riding into the headwind on his own ?

 

[Pantani_lives]

Giving time to Zakarin was a huge blunder. He's a favorite to win this Giro. Zakarin, Thomas and Dumoulin are the three favorites, because they're better at the time trials and nothing will happen in the mountains.

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

Deserved win for Polanc

It looks like nobody wanted pink!

Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.

 

[portugal11]

This is the kind of stage in the first week of a GT that Contador is sooo missed



anyways...... I expect either a breakaway winner or Landa/Pinot/G to out sprint the rest of the GC contenders with no gaps whatsoever....

What the hell? why even post crap like this?

come again?

I agree mate

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Giving time to Zakarin was a huge blunder. He's a favorite to win this Giro. Zakarin, Thomas and Dumoulin are the three favorites, because they're better at the time trials and nothing will happen in the mountains.

He never looks too comfortable on descents. Many people don't think the TTs will have much effect. Not so sure about that.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Re: Re:

There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

It looks like nobody wanted pink!

Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.

Astana looked rather good, but they're missing Aru.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

Deserved win for Polanc

It looks like nobody wanted pink!

Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.

Actually it turns out this years Giro super team is Cannondale. :lol:

4 riders in the group, did anyone else have more than 1? Astana might have had a couple iirc, Sky had the 2 leaders.

 

[BullsFan22]

Well hopefully Polanc will be able to walk tomorrow, let alone ride another stage, that was brutal. I could feel the pain.

 

[veji11]

You know what this type of stage, or rather, how it was raced, makes you realise ? Actually that first big nasty ITT early in a GT Indurain Tour de France style might not be that bad... imagine we had the first 40kms ITT today and tomorrow the Etna.. Dumoulin, Thomas, Jungels would already have some nice time up on the Quintanas or Yates or SK, with the Pinots and Nibalis in between. Suddenly you think you might as well start clawing back some of that time on the Etna...

 

[Vasilis]

Re: Re:

There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

Deserved win for Polanc

It looks like nobody wanted pink!

Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.

Actually it turns out this years Giro super team is Cannondale. :lol:

4 riders in the group, did anyone else have more than 1? Astana might have had a couple iirc, Sky had the 2 leaders.

I think Amador was there for Quintana as well, Astana had 2 or 3 too I think.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

Actually it turns out this years Giro super team is Cannondale. :lol:

4 riders in the group, did anyone else have more than 1? Astana might have had a couple iirc, Sky had the 2 leaders.

Hopefully they start putting riders in the early breaks instead of thinking at the team classification.

They could win 2-3 stages.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

Deserved win for Polanc

It looks like nobody wanted pink!

Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.

You might be right. The teams seem pretty even in the mountains. Although it's probably too early to say.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Giving time to Zakarin was a huge blunder. He's a favorite to win this Giro. Zakarin, Thomas and Dumoulin are the three favorites, because they're better at the time trials and nothing will happen in the mountains.

He never looks too comfortable on descents. Many people don't think the TTs will have much effect. Not so sure about that.

I guess the theory is that if Quintana or Nibali are on or close to top form, they will gain in the mountains way more than the 2-3 minutes they may lose to Dumoulin or Zakarin in the TT.

Attacking hard and early from a large group on a climb with gentle gradients, a headwind and when everyone is really fresh after three soft pedalled stages and a rest day would be a great way to waste energy and put yourself in a hole. Especially given how hard that third week is.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

You'd think if the headwind was that bad though, that a solo lesser name rider wouldn't be able to win relatively comfortably despite being in the break all day.

I think its just the consequence of big climbs early in the race. No-one wants to do an early attack and risk blowing up, and nobody really wants to have to waste energy defending the MR for the next few days. A stage for the race design thread aficionados to perhaps pay attention to.

You're right, Tour designs of the noughties are they way forward

Unsurprisingly, you've missed the point. If you want GC action early in a GT you're much better off having technical classics style stages or stages with possibility of crosswinds, than high mountain stages inthe first week. Particularly high mountain stages with very few steep sections and a flattish finish.

You get crappy MTFs in the third week of a GT as well. Look at Cervinia in 2015: really difficult stage, terrible action. Or Finhaut Emosson, or Montecampione 2014 - the list goes on. These climbs rarely get a great race, only when you have Contador to decimate everyone else is it actually any good. I don't think that it's a necessity to avoid hard mountains early on, because even when they included cobbles in 2015 it was extremely disappointing.

 

[movingtarget]

Well hopefully Polanc will be able to walk tomorrow, let alone ride another stage, that was brutal. I could feel the pain.

His speech was a bit labored unsurprisingly ! You could hear the tiredness in his voice. Hopefully he is not on bottle distribution tomorrow !

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Quintana, pinot, landa, thomas,... what a joke of riders

They have to drop Thomas in the mountains, he should gain time on most in the TT. It's on Quintana, Nibali, Pinot and co to do that.

Thomas needs a buffer going into the multi mountain stages in the 3rd week, and TTs alone wont be enough for that. He needed to gain time on stages like today if he genuinely wants to be a challenger for the overall

 

[DFA123]

Re:

You know what this type of stage, or rather, how it was raced, makes you realise ? Actually that first big nasty ITT early in a GT Indurain Tour de France style might not be that bad... imagine we had the first 40kms ITT today and tomorrow the Etna.. Dumoulin, Thomas, Jungels would already have some nice time up on the Quintanas or Yates or SK, with the Pinots and Nibalis in between. Suddenly you think you might as well start clawing back some of that time on the Etna...

I think also it shows that having loads of hard mountains stages is going to result in a lot of dud stages, because the best climbers have so many other opportunities to gain time. Why risk wasting energy when circumstances aren't optimal - like they weren't today - when you know that there will be a lot better opportunities later in the race.

The other option is the Vuelta one I guess. Put loads of short climbs with gradients that automatically create selection and racing between the GC most days, but aren't long enough to allow any riders to gain so much time that they run away with the GC.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

You know what this type of stage, or rather, how it was raced, makes you realise ? Actually that first big nasty ITT early in a GT Indurain Tour de France style might not be that bad... imagine we had the first 40kms ITT today and tomorrow the Etna.. Dumoulin, Thomas, Jungels would already have some nice time up on the Quintanas or Yates or SK, with the Pinots and Nibalis in between. Suddenly you think you might as well start clawing back some of that time on the Etna...

Quintanas? Pinots? Nibalis?
No, no. No! Cloning the riders is not allowed! Though, technically there could have been two Quintanas and Nibalis (and Yateses...) but that ain't the case.

 

[yaco]

Re:

They went the wrong way? Didn't seem the best organisation on that corner.

Nah - The riders took the corner too quickly - The stage winner Polanc from the breakaway nearly went off at the same corner.