• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

2017 Giro d'Italia, Stage 4: Cefalú - Etna 181 km

Page 21 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
DFA123 said:
You'd think if the headwind was that bad though, that a solo lesser name rider wouldn't be able to win relatively comfortably despite being in the break all day.

I think its just the consequence of big climbs early in the race. No-one wants to do an early attack and risk blowing up, and nobody really wants to have to waste energy defending the MR for the next few days. A stage for the race design thread aficionados to perhaps pay attention to.
You're right, Tour designs of the noughties are they way forward
Unsurprisingly, you've missed the point. If you want GC action early in a GT you're much better off having technical classics style stages or stages with possibility of crosswinds, than high mountain stages inthe first week. Particularly high mountain stages with very few steep sections and a flattish finish.
 
Aug 6, 2015
4,139
2
0
Visit site
C'mon guys, we all know that quintana will wear the pink jersey after blockhaus so why riders didn't race to gain time and the pink jersey today? Because they are cowards and are racing for second place. The next stages are easy to control and they can give the jersey to a insignificant rider
 
Re:

There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

Deserved win for Polanc

Escarabajo said:
It looks like nobody wanted pink!
Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.
 
Re:

Pantani_lives said:
Giving time to Zakarin was a huge blunder. He's a favorite to win this Giro. Zakarin, Thomas and Dumoulin are the three favorites, because they're better at the time trials and nothing will happen in the mountains.

He never looks too comfortable on descents. Many people don't think the TTs will have much effect. Not so sure about that.
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.


Escarabajo said:
It looks like nobody wanted pink!
Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.
Astana looked rather good, but they're missing Aru.
 
Nov 29, 2010
2,326
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

Deserved win for Polanc

Escarabajo said:
It looks like nobody wanted pink!
Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.

Actually it turns out this years Giro super team is Cannondale. :lol:

4 riders in the group, did anyone else have more than 1? Astana might have had a couple iirc, Sky had the 2 leaders.
 
Apr 15, 2013
954
0
0
Visit site
You know what this type of stage, or rather, how it was raced, makes you realise ? Actually that first big nasty ITT early in a GT Indurain Tour de France style might not be that bad... imagine we had the first 40kms ITT today and tomorrow the Etna.. Dumoulin, Thomas, Jungels would already have some nice time up on the Quintanas or Yates or SK, with the Pinots and Nibalis in between. Suddenly you think you might as well start clawing back some of that time on the Etna...
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
SafeBet said:
There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

Deserved win for Polanc

Escarabajo said:
It looks like nobody wanted pink!
Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.

Actually it turns out this years Giro super team is Cannondale. :lol:

4 riders in the group, did anyone else have more than 1? Astana might have had a couple iirc, Sky had the 2 leaders.
I think Amador was there for Quintana as well, Astana had 2 or 3 too I think.
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
Actually it turns out this years Giro super team is Cannondale. :lol:

4 riders in the group, did anyone else have more than 1? Astana might have had a couple iirc, Sky had the 2 leaders.
Hopefully they start putting riders in the early breaks instead of thinking at the team classification.

They could win 2-3 stages.
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
There's one thing this stage told us: there's no super team here. Even Sky and Movistar didn't impress me. The level of domestiques is pretty weak overall, which could make for some very entertaining racing from now on.

Deserved win for Polanc

Escarabajo said:
It looks like nobody wanted pink!
Because nobody actually wants it this early. Nobody has the team to control the Giro for three weeks.

You might be right. The teams seem pretty even in the mountains. Although it's probably too early to say.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
Pantani_lives said:
Giving time to Zakarin was a huge blunder. He's a favorite to win this Giro. Zakarin, Thomas and Dumoulin are the three favorites, because they're better at the time trials and nothing will happen in the mountains.

He never looks too comfortable on descents. Many people don't think the TTs will have much effect. Not so sure about that.
I guess the theory is that if Quintana or Nibali are on or close to top form, they will gain in the mountains way more than the 2-3 minutes they may lose to Dumoulin or Zakarin in the TT.

Attacking hard and early from a large group on a climb with gentle gradients, a headwind and when everyone is really fresh after three soft pedalled stages and a rest day would be a great way to waste energy and put yourself in a hole. Especially given how hard that third week is.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Brullnux said:
DFA123 said:
You'd think if the headwind was that bad though, that a solo lesser name rider wouldn't be able to win relatively comfortably despite being in the break all day.

I think its just the consequence of big climbs early in the race. No-one wants to do an early attack and risk blowing up, and nobody really wants to have to waste energy defending the MR for the next few days. A stage for the race design thread aficionados to perhaps pay attention to.
You're right, Tour designs of the noughties are they way forward
Unsurprisingly, you've missed the point. If you want GC action early in a GT you're much better off having technical classics style stages or stages with possibility of crosswinds, than high mountain stages inthe first week. Particularly high mountain stages with very few steep sections and a flattish finish.
You get crappy MTFs in the third week of a GT as well. Look at Cervinia in 2015: really difficult stage, terrible action. Or Finhaut Emosson, or Montecampione 2014 - the list goes on. These climbs rarely get a great race, only when you have Contador to decimate everyone else is it actually any good. I don't think that it's a necessity to avoid hard mountains early on, because even when they included cobbles in 2015 it was extremely disappointing.
 
Re: Re:

Pricey_sky said:
portugal11 said:
Quintana, pinot, landa, thomas,... what a joke of riders


They have to drop Thomas in the mountains, he should gain time on most in the TT. It's on Quintana, Nibali, Pinot and co to do that.

Thomas needs a buffer going into the multi mountain stages in the 3rd week, and TTs alone wont be enough for that. He needed to gain time on stages like today if he genuinely wants to be a challenger for the overall
 
Re:

veji11 said:
You know what this type of stage, or rather, how it was raced, makes you realise ? Actually that first big nasty ITT early in a GT Indurain Tour de France style might not be that bad... imagine we had the first 40kms ITT today and tomorrow the Etna.. Dumoulin, Thomas, Jungels would already have some nice time up on the Quintanas or Yates or SK, with the Pinots and Nibalis in between. Suddenly you think you might as well start clawing back some of that time on the Etna...
I think also it shows that having loads of hard mountains stages is going to result in a lot of dud stages, because the best climbers have so many other opportunities to gain time. Why risk wasting energy when circumstances aren't optimal - like they weren't today - when you know that there will be a lot better opportunities later in the race.

The other option is the Vuelta one I guess. Put loads of short climbs with gradients that automatically create selection and racing between the GC most days, but aren't long enough to allow any riders to gain so much time that they run away with the GC.
 
Re:

veji11 said:
You know what this type of stage, or rather, how it was raced, makes you realise ? Actually that first big nasty ITT early in a GT Indurain Tour de France style might not be that bad... imagine we had the first 40kms ITT today and tomorrow the Etna.. Dumoulin, Thomas, Jungels would already have some nice time up on the Quintanas or Yates or SK, with the Pinots and Nibalis in between. Suddenly you think you might as well start clawing back some of that time on the Etna...

Quintanas? Pinots? Nibalis?
No, no. No! Cloning the riders is not allowed! Though, technically there could have been two Quintanas and Nibalis (and Yateses...) but that ain't the case.