2017 Giro d'Italia, Stage 4: Cefalú - Etna 181 km

[durtyfat7]

Im not worried for Landa, its probably because of the rest day of yesterday that he wasn't feeling too good during the stage. I won't be surprised if he go " beast mode" during the 3rd week. =.=

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Giving time to Zakarin was a huge blunder. He's a favorite to win this Giro. Zakarin, Thomas and Dumoulin are the three favorites, because they're better at the time trials and nothing will happen in the mountains.

He never looks too comfortable on descents. Many people don't think the TTs will have much effect. Not so sure about that.

I guess the theory is that if Quintana or Nibali are on or close to top form, they will gain in the mountains way more than the 2-3 minutes they may lose to Dumoulin or Zakarin in the TT.

Attacking hard and early from a large group on a climb with gentle gradients, a headwind and when everyone is really fresh after three soft pedalled stages and a rest day would be a great way to waste energy and put yourself in a hole. Especially given how hard that third week is.

Zakarin didn't waste too much energy and the margin was still worth it with the bonus.

 

[RedheadDane]

Well hopefully Polanc will be able to walk tomorrow, let alone ride another stage, that was brutal. I could feel the pain.

His speech was a bit labored unsurprisingly ! You could hear the tiredness in his voice. Hopefully he is not on bottle distribution tomorrow !

His luck is that it's a flat stage.

 

[SafeBet]

Pinot: "our team worked a lot but it seems nobody really wanted to win today"

Visconti: "pulling for one km now means working a lot?"

 

[portugal11]

Re:

Pinot: "our team worked a lot but it seems nobody really wanted to win today"

Visconti: "pulling for one km now means working a lot?"

Can't wait to see pinot dropping like a stone on blockhaus

 

[yaco]

Cannondale must be the most tactically naive team in the WT - Surely you make sure you have 2 riders in the break in each mountain stage, considering you have a team of climbers with only one riding for GC.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Giving time to Zakarin was a huge blunder. He's a favorite to win this Giro. Zakarin, Thomas and Dumoulin are the three favorites, because they're better at the time trials and nothing will happen in the mountains.

He never looks too comfortable on descents. Many people don't think the TTs will have much effect. Not so sure about that.

I guess the theory is that if Quintana or Nibali are on or close to top form, they will gain in the mountains way more than the 2-3 minutes they may lose to Dumoulin or Zakarin in the TT.

Attacking hard and early from a large group on a climb with gentle gradients, a headwind and when everyone is really fresh after three soft pedalled stages and a rest day would be a great way to waste energy and put yourself in a hole. Especially given how hard that third week is.

Zakarin didn't waste too much energy and the margin was still worth it with the bonus.

Well yeah, but I wouldn't call that attacking hard and early. He managed to kind of sneak away during a drop in pace 1.5km from the line. Not really much time to waste energy. He also has the advantage that he's not Nibali or Quintana, so about 10 riders won't immediately jump on his wheel every time he tries to do anything.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

They went the wrong way? Didn't seem the best organisation on that corner.

Nah - The riders took the corner too quickly - The stage winner Polanc from the breakaway nearly went off at the same corner.

Yeah, but why did they take the corner too quickly? Perhaps there wasn't good enough signage beforehand. It was a pretty sharp corner being approached at 50km/h+, so probably needed a bit more warning than the usual pink arrow.

Perhaps there was enough signs and the riders just misjudged it anyway, but Polanc nearly going off as well suggests a bit more warning could have been needed.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

Winners of today: Zakarin, Thomas, Dumoulin, Quintana, Landa (no time loss despite the problems today)

Losers of the day: Kruijswijk, Costa, that's it really

you do realize that even tho Kruijswijk was his usual lesser self he was still in the group. Eg he didn't lose time

I know, but he was just hanging in there. Would have been dropped if some GC guys had the balls to attack hard in those last 3 km.

I just feel he will disappoint this Giro. But let's see first

Well for one, I said he will normally lose time on early mountains. He's a 3rd week rider, not 1st one. He has been WAY worse in 1st mt stage tests.

But 2, and that is why I agree he won't do as well as last year, he fell in Yorkshire and he fell again today. So this year nothing is ideal. And he really needs ideal circumstances. Vuelta last year proved that, he was sick somewhere in the preparation there and as a result sucked in the Vuelta and never really got better.

However, I think it's too early to say he will be bad per se (like in, not top 10). What you have to keep in mind with Kruijswijk is that there is a certain pattern. In the 1st week he has real trouble when it gets hard, in the 2nd week he rises to the top and in the 3rd week he is at his best. That's because his level between 1st and 3rd week hardly drops.
But his 1st week level is not good enough to do much. Which is incidentally the same reason he never does something in 1 week races.

It's really strange I still need to explain this every year. Thought people knew by now. Kruijswijk is a diesel..

 

[staubsauger]

I'm not convinced Quintana got gt winning shape anymore. If so he easily could've gained some seconds like Pantani on Gran Sasso d'Italia! Looks like we've about 5-10 equal guys that could potentially win the Giro on paper.

Kruijswijk is the big winner today actually. He lost zero time since nobody made a move while he's the only contender that certainly gains significant time in the tt against Quintana, without losing a bunch in the mountains afterwards. That was a missed chance for the others to kill him off. If Kruijswijk stays alive after Blockhaus, he might find himself in a quite similar situation to last year's race after the tt.

If Quintana really ain't got his prime shape and since Pinot fails anyway somewhere along the way ... Steven is nicely flying under the radar once again 1 year later.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

So much for epic.

The real winner here is Nibali I think. He talked up the stage, but when you look at his past, he's always best in the last week of GT's, the final few mountain stages especially. When he's been up front like this early in the mountains, he usually walks away the overall winner.

Same thoughts. People around here predicted he'll loose one minute but they never learn.

 

[Derry]

Kruijswijk was on the ground as well at 17k of the finish.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

They went the wrong way? Didn't seem the best organisation on that corner.

Nah - The riders took the corner too quickly - The stage winner Polanc from the breakaway nearly went off at the same corner.

Yeah, but why did they take the corner too quickly? Perhaps there wasn't good enough signage beforehand. It was a pretty sharp corner being approached at 50km/h+, so probably needed a bit more warning than the usual pink arrow.

Perhaps there was enough signs and the riders just misjudged it anyway, but Polanc nearly going off as well suggests a bit more warning could have been needed.

It looked like it wasn't very obvious which way they should go to me. The road should have had a barrier across it. Maybe they decided not to as it was a fast corner and they were worried about riders hitting it, but from what I saw it did look confusing and all it takes is one rider to go the wrong way.

 

[hfer07]

all the GC contenders exactly at 10 secs from the Maglia Rosa.......

Dumoulin is the one benefiting the most of this type of racing before he smashes everyone in the ITT

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah I really don't know why they didn't utilize a mountain as tough as the Etna.
Must have been the wind else I can only say it's stupidity

 

[BullsFan22]

Nice move for Zakarin in the final bit to gain time and put himself within a few seconds of the other contenders and looks like 14 off of Jungels who leads the overall. I don't know what it is with him and all these mechanicals and crashes, but he can't afford too many misfortunes if he wants to get on the podium. His team also doesn't seem to be that strong, which could hurt him later on, but we'll see. He seems to be in solid shape.

 

[hfer07]

Re:

I'm not convinced Quintana got gt winning shape anymore. If so he easily could've gained some seconds like Pantani on Gran Sasso d'Italia! Looks like we've about 5-10 equal guys that could potentially win the Giro on paper.

If Quintana really ain't got his prime shape and since Pinot fails anyway somewhere along the way ... Steven is nicely flying under the radar once again 1 year later.

Nairo is going for the long game & the Tour if you need a reminder of it - So I can assure you Quintana on 90% of his racing shape will drop the ever loving soul out of everyone in the last two MTF stages- mark my words

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re: Re:

Winners of today: Zakarin, Thomas, Dumoulin, Quintana, Landa (no time loss despite the problems today)

Losers of the day: Kruijswijk, Costa, that's it really

you do realize that even tho Kruijswijk was his usual lesser self he was still in the group. Eg he didn't lose time

I know, but he was just hanging in there. Would have been dropped if some GC guys had the balls to attack hard in those last 3 km.

I just feel he will disappoint this Giro. But let's see first

Well for one, I said he will normally lose time on early mountains. He's a 3rd week rider, not 1st one. He has been WAY worse in 1st mt stage tests.

But 2, and that is why I agree he won't do as well as last year, he fell in Yorkshire and he fell again today. So this year nothing is ideal. And he really needs ideal circumstances. Vuelta last year proved that, he was sick somewhere in the preparation there and as a result sucked in the Vuelta and never really got better.

However, I think it's too early to say he will be bad per se (like in, not top 10). What you have to keep in mind with Kruijswijk is that there is a certain pattern. In the 1st week he has real trouble when it gets hard, in the 2nd week he rises to the top and in the 3rd week he is at his best. That's because his level between 1st and 3rd week hardly drops.
But his 1st week level is not good enough to do much. Which is incidentally the same reason he never does something in 1 week races.

It's really strange I still need to explain this every year. Thought people knew by now. Kruijswijk is a diesel..

I totally agree, last year he was sprinting with Dumoulin to gain like 2 seconds and he was way more alert. Now he was just hanging on. Still looking forward what he will try later in the race.

 

[movingtarget]

Bit early in the race to be saying riders failed on one stage. The stage decided nothing. It didn't even indicate who is climbing best because it's much too early. The only real winner of the GT riders was Zakarin for a small gain. The headwind convinced them to save their energy for another day and a better opportunity to build a time gap.

 

[jaylew]

What a crap stage. The surprising thing to me is not a single rider you'd put in the top 10-15 lost even a second. I'd have thought someone would show some weakness.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

I'm not convinced Quintana got gt winning shape anymore. If so he easily could've gained some seconds like Pantani on Gran Sasso d'Italia! Looks like we've about 5-10 equal guys that could potentially win the Giro on paper.

Kruijswijk is the big winner today actually. He lost zero time since nobody made a move while he's the only contender that certainly gains significant time in the tt against Quintana, without losing a bunch in the mountains afterwards. That was a missed chance for the others to kill him off. If Kruijswijk stays alive after Blockhaus, he might find himself in a quite similar situation to last year's race after the tt.

If Quintana really ain't got his prime shape and since Pinot fails anyway somewhere along the way ... Steven is nicely flying under the radar once again 1 year later.

Quintana announced he's going "easy" in the first week, building form. I expect much higher level at the Blockhaus and the TT, and absolute peak at Stelvio and Dolomites stage.

So Kruiswijk is the only GC contender that certainly gains time on Quintana in the TT? Really? Since when he's such a good TT-ist? What about Nibali, Pinot, Zakarin?! And I'm not sure he'll gain any time on Quintana!

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Yeah I really don't know why they didn't utilize a mountain as tough as the Etna.
Must have been the wind else I can only say it's stupidity

It's probably both...

 

[Carols]

Re:

GT should only be 2 weeks. It's time

No way!

At least wait until I die, my time isn't that far off....

 

[Anderis]

Re: Re:

Actually it turns out this years Giro super team is Cannondale. :lol:

4 riders in the group, did anyone else have more than 1? Astana might have had a couple iirc, Sky had the 2 leaders.

Hopefully they start putting riders in the early breaks instead of thinking at the team classification.

They could win 2-3 stages.

Villella tried to bridge across with Jaregui at the beginning of the stage but they were absorbed back into the bunch. Not always easy for climbers to get into the break if the beginning of the stage is totally flat.

And putting riders in the early breaks actually increases your chances in the team classification.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

I'm not convinced Quintana got gt winning shape anymore. If so he easily could've gained some seconds like Pantani on Gran Sasso d'Italia! Looks like we've about 5-10 equal guys that could potentially win the Giro on paper.

Kruijswijk is the big winner today actually. He lost zero time since nobody made a move while he's the only contender that certainly gains significant time in the tt against Quintana, without losing a bunch in the mountains afterwards. That was a missed chance for the others to kill him off. If Kruijswijk stays alive after Blockhaus, he might find himself in a quite similar situation to last year's race after the tt.

If Quintana really ain't got his prime shape and since Pinot fails anyway somewhere along the way ... Steven is nicely flying under the radar once again 1 year later.

Quintana announced he's going "easy" in the first week, building form. I expect much higher level at the Blockhaus and the TT, and absolute peak at Stelvio and Dolomites stage.

So Kruiswijk is the only GC contender that certainly gains time on Quintana in the TT? Really? Since when he's such a good TT-ist? What about Nibali, Pinot, Zakarin?! And I'm not sure he'll gain any time on Quintana!

I said Kruiswijk is the only one to do so without losing a bunch of it in the mountains again. Unless Pinot gets his act together or Nibali turns back the clock 3 years.

If Quintana follows the Pantani pattern for the double, riding himself into shape during the start of the gt's, it might become interesting. The Contador plan clearly failed dramatically 2x.