2017 Giro d'Italia, Stage 4: Cefalú - Etna 181 km

[johnymax]

Yes, Polanc! Fantastic win. His second pro win and his second Giro stage win. He apparently knows how to shine in the big races His Giro is now already saved. I think he should try and target the KOM jersey now. It's going to be difficult but he's in good shape and a very capable climber.

Very happy for Jungels in pink. He deserved this after a strong performance in the third stage. I'm curious to see how far can he go. Maybe a surprise top5? That would be amazing in this field and a sign of great things to come from the young man. Ullrich? Why not. Not yet a beast of the same calibre, but a beast rider nonetheless.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Looked like the 2 riders got quite close and elbows were flashed across each other, though it appears Rosa missed Moreno but Moreno then retaliated by shoving Rosa off the road. Correct decision to DQ Moreno, if I was Nibali I'd be furious with his teammate.

He clearly made some contact considering Moreno's bike started wobbling

Didn't look like there was a great deal in it from either rider to be honest, and I doubt anything would have been said or done about it had it been left there. However when you have to try and have the last laugh like Moreno did and end up up pushing a rider off the road you deserve to face the consequences.

 

[markene2]

I have a feeling Zaka can win the whole damn thing

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

I'm not convinced Quintana got gt winning shape anymore. If so he easily could've gained some seconds like Pantani on Gran Sasso d'Italia! Looks like we've about 5-10 equal guys that could potentially win the Giro on paper.

Kruijswijk is the big winner today actually. He lost zero time since nobody made a move while he's the only contender that certainly gains significant time in the tt against Quintana, without losing a bunch in the mountains afterwards. That was a missed chance for the others to kill him off. If Kruijswijk stays alive after Blockhaus, he might find himself in a quite similar situation to last year's race after the tt.

If Quintana really ain't got his prime shape and since Pinot fails anyway somewhere along the way ... Steven is nicely flying under the radar once again 1 year later.

Quintana announced he's going "easy" in the first week, building form. I expect much higher level at the Blockhaus and the TT, and absolute peak at Stelvio and Dolomites stage.

So Kruiswijk is the only GC contender that certainly gains time on Quintana in the TT? Really? Since when he's such a good TT-ist? What about Nibali, Pinot, Zakarin?! And I'm not sure he'll gain any time on Quintana!

I said Kruiswijk is the only one to do so without losing a bunch of it in the mountains again. Unless Pinot gets his act together or Nibali turns back the clock 3 years.

If Quintana follows the Pantani pattern for the double, riding himself into shape during the start of the gt's, it might become interesting. The Contador plan clearly failed dramatically 2x.

So you think Kruijswijk will be stronger than Nibali in the mountains? I don't...

I do. And Pinot WILL get his act together: mark my words .

To me, the winner today is Dumoulin. Conservative racing in the mountains is a big mistake as long as he remains close: he for sure can take time on anybody in the ITT. Zakarin? I don't believe in him...yet. And I agree that Nibali no longer is the '14 killer. Blockhaus...must watch.

 

[Robert5091]

Chapeau Polanc! Sky, Movistar & Bahrain will be glad not to have the leaders jersey. Too early for GC guys to attack in only stage 4. Wait a week then things will happen.
Moreno? Now we've had dopping and dopes at the Giro :sad:

 

[Hugo Koblet]

The Giro field might be pretty stacked this year, but unfortunately it's stacked with riders who will ride conservatively because they believe in their time trial abilities. Zakarin, Dumoulin, Jungels, Van Garderen, Kruijswijk, Thomas and Pinot all will have faith in their time trialing, and so we're left with Yates, Quintana and Nibali to ride agressively and we all know that Quintana is a pretty calculative rider who won't be putting on the big show. Interestingly, I think that Zakarin and Dumoulin eventually will show themselves as two of the most agressive riders in the field.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

The Giro field might be pretty stacked this year, but unfortunately it's stacked with riders who will ride conservatively because they believe in their time trial abilities. Zakarin, Dumoulin, Jungels, Van Garderen, Kruijswijk, Thomas and Pinot all will have faith in their time trialing, and so we're left with Yates, Quintana and Nibali to ride aggressively and we all know that Quintana is a pretty calculative rider who won't be putting on the big show. Interestingly, I think that Zakarin and Dumoulin eventually will show themselves as two of the most agressive riders in the field.

You should also add Landa to the good side on that equation. But how Team Sky's tactics will play out is difficult to predict. However, if he is allowed to or just decides to go rogue, he can also be an entertaining rider to watch. And then we have the Italian question marks, Pozzovivo and Formolo. Surely, they are not thinking highly of their time trialing capabilities and even though it is difficult to know at the moment, they are probably going well enough to try some attacking in the mountains.

 

[Robert5091]

How pathetic are Cannondale? Send Rolland up the road for 2 minutes? Jeezus! Go nuts - get a man in the break, put the whole team on the front, something!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Disgraceful that Moreno was DQed and Rosa wasn't. Should be both.

Great result for Zaka! and nice win for Polanc
I wasn't able to watch but don't think I missed much

 

[SafeBet]

Not comparable for me. Rosa was fighting for position as many others do plenty of times in a stage. Moreno deliberately caused a crash potentially injuring Rosa and many fans.

 

[dusty red roads]

Attacking riders? Nibali will for sure if he's got the form, Yates will for sure, he's not one for sitting back and yeh, Landa has to go rogue if he wants to better Thomas in the pecking order... hope Pozzo goes too. But I wouldn't underestimate a couple of the so-called time-triallers to be more aggressive either. Just need it to be a little further down the track than the 4th stage
(I hope I'm right! I'd hate to see the rest of the race be too conservative!)...

Great win by Polanc, and glad Zaka got some time back. If Krushweak revs into gear as things progress he'll hopefully gain his time back as well and possibly more. But these guys need to get rid of Quintana while he's still building up. Likewise Quintana needs to get rid of the time trialists, of course he won't do much until later in the race. Let's see what happens on Sunday.

Curious to see Tom's time trial - how much power has he lost by losing weight?

 

[Tobi]

Great to see Jesper Hansen try something

 

[glassmoon]

what a waste of stage... hoped the rivals would put pressure one Nairo as soon as possible during this Giro as he is supposed to built for later Giro to keep peak for the TdF.
only good thing about that stage was a winner. brave move from Zakarin too but i guess they just let him go.

 

[tobydawq]

To the people complaining about the borefest that was yesterday's stage.

Did you see the running fan with the Russian flag with approximately 2 kilometres to go (and especially his flag)? It was obvious that there was a howling headwind all the way (with some sections of cross-head wind) and that clearly made it impossible to do anything more than just hanging on. They were even riding in an echelon in the sections with cross-head wind.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

The Giro field might be pretty stacked this year, but unfortunately it's stacked with riders who will ride conservatively because they believe in their time trial abilities. Zakarin, Dumoulin, Jungels, Van Garderen, Kruijswijk, Thomas and Pinot all will have faith in their time trialing, and so we're left with Yates, Quintana and Nibali to ride aggressively and we all know that Quintana is a pretty calculative rider who won't be putting on the big show. Interestingly, I think that Zakarin and Dumoulin eventually will show themselves as two of the most agressive riders in the field.

You should also add Landa to the good side on that equation. But how Team Sky's tactics will play out is difficult to predict. However, if he is allowed to or just decides to go rogue, he can also be an entertaining rider to watch. And then we have the Italian question marks, Pozzovivo and Formolo. Surely, they are not thinking highly of their time trialing capabilities and even though it is difficult to know at the moment, they are probably going well enough to try some attacking in the mountains.

Landa I forgot yes. Personally, I don't have much faith in him though, but hopefully I'm proven wrong. Formolo and Pozzovivo will hopefully lighten up the race, but most likely they won't have anything to say in the GC - they might force the other top 10 contenders to react to protect their top 10 though.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

To the people complaining about the borefest that was yesterday's stage.

Did you see the running fan with the Russian flag with approximately 2 kilometres to go (and especially his flag)? It was obvious that there was a howling headwind all the way (with some sections of cross-head wind) and that clearly made it impossible to do anything more than just hanging on. They were even riding in an echelon in the sections with cross-head wind.

Then how come Polanc managed to win pretty comfortably, going solo on the entire climb after being in the break all day? If the heawind was so bad that riders could just hang on, then he would have had no chance fighting it for the best part of 180km, including the entire final 16km.

Obviously there was a headwind, but Polanc's ride suggests that, in spite of the headwind, the main peloton weren't exactly exerting themselves much. I don't think there was much hanging on - everyone looked relatively comfortable to me.

I think it was more a case of no-one wanting to show their hand too early in the race, nobody wanting to use their domestiques to create a really hard pace which may accidentally set up an attack for a rival to gain time.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

To the people complaining about the borefest that was yesterday's stage.

Did you see the running fan with the Russian flag with approximately 2 kilometres to go (and especially his flag)? It was obvious that there was a howling headwind all the way (with some sections of cross-head wind) and that clearly made it impossible to do anything more than just hanging on. They were even riding in an echelon in the sections with cross-head wind.

Then how come Polanc managed to win pretty comfortably, going solo on the entire climb after being in the break all day? If the heawind was so bad that riders could just hang on, then he would have had no chance fighting it for the best part of 180km, including the entire final 16km.

Obviously there was a headwind, but Polanc's ride suggests that, in spite of the headwind, the main peloton weren't exactly exerting themselves much. I don't think there was much hanging on - everyone looked relatively comfortable to me.

I think it was more a case of no-one wanting to show their hand too early in the race, nobody wanting to use their domestiques to create a really hard pace which may accidentally set up an attack for a rival to gain time.

Polanc didn't have to worry about someone benefiting greatly from being in his wheel due to the headwind, so he could go as hard as he could.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

To the people complaining about the borefest that was yesterday's stage.

Did you see the running fan with the Russian flag with approximately 2 kilometres to go (and especially his flag)? It was obvious that there was a howling headwind all the way (with some sections of cross-head wind) and that clearly made it impossible to do anything more than just hanging on. They were even riding in an echelon in the sections with cross-head wind.

Then how come Polanc managed to win pretty comfortably, going solo on the entire climb after being in the break all day? If the heawind was so bad that riders could just hang on, then he would have had no chance fighting it for the best part of 180km, including the entire final 16km.

Obviously there was a headwind, but Polanc's ride suggests that, in spite of the headwind, the main peloton weren't exactly exerting themselves much. I don't think there was much hanging on - everyone looked relatively comfortable to me.

I think it was more a case of no-one wanting to show their hand too early in the race, nobody wanting to use their domestiques to create a really hard pace which may accidentally set up an attack for a rival to gain time.

Polanc didn't have to worry about someone benefiting greatly from being in his wheel due to the headwind, so he could go as hard as he could.

My feeling after this stage is what I would imagine it to feel like if I was a straight woman in her bedroom who had a good looking guy with a sizeable package at her disposal, only for the end result to be that she somehow wasn't made to breathe very heavily at all.

Much like those 20 GC riders that finished in the same time.

This stage was like a Big Bad Wolf that couldn't even blow over a house of straw.

On the plus side, the 100th Giro can only get better from here.

Then again, we could always end up with another 2012ish edition

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

My feeling after this stage is what I would imagine it to feel like if I was a straight woman in her bedroom who had a good looking guy with a sizeable package at her disposal, only for the end result to be that she somehow wasn't made to breathe very heavily at all.

Much like those 20 GC riders that finished in the same time.

This stage was like a Big Bad Wolf that couldn't even blow over a house of straw.

On the plus side, the 100th Giro can only get better from here.

Then again, we could always end up with another 2012ish edition

I did concede that it was a borefest. I'm just explaining why it couldn't have been better and that it pobably wasn't because nobody wanted to do anything (maybe they didn't but they at least have an excuse now).

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

To the people complaining about the borefest that was yesterday's stage.

Did you see the running fan with the Russian flag with approximately 2 kilometres to go (and especially his flag)? It was obvious that there was a howling headwind all the way (with some sections of cross-head wind) and that clearly made it impossible to do anything more than just hanging on. They were even riding in an echelon in the sections with cross-head wind.

Then how come Polanc managed to win pretty comfortably, going solo on the entire climb after being in the break all day? If the heawind was so bad that riders could just hang on, then he would have had no chance fighting it for the best part of 180km, including the entire final 16km.

Obviously there was a headwind, but Polanc's ride suggests that, in spite of the headwind, the main peloton weren't exactly exerting themselves much. I don't think there was much hanging on - everyone looked relatively comfortable to me.

I think it was more a case of no-one wanting to show their hand too early in the race, nobody wanting to use their domestiques to create a really hard pace which may accidentally set up an attack for a rival to gain time.

Polanc didn't have to worry about someone benefiting greatly from being in his wheel due to the headwind, so he could go as hard as he could.

Well clearly that was his only tactic. But, if the headwind was that ferocious and the chasing group chose to ride on the limit of what they could do, then there is no way he would have survived doing that having been in the break all day. Especially as the chasing group had domestiques setting the pace nearly the whole way.

But they didn't. No one wanted their domestiques to set a hard pace to reel in Polanc, because that could then leave them vulnerable to a counter attack. So in the end, the GC favourites basically just soft pedalled up until the final 2km - which is why none of them lost any time.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

To the people complaining about the borefest that was yesterday's stage.

Did you see the running fan with the Russian flag with approximately 2 kilometres to go (and especially his flag)? It was obvious that there was a howling headwind all the way (with some sections of cross-head wind) and that clearly made it impossible to do anything more than just hanging on. They were even riding in an echelon in the sections with cross-head wind.

Then how come Polanc managed to win pretty comfortably, going solo on the entire climb after being in the break all day? If the heawind was so bad that riders could just hang on, then he would have had no chance fighting it for the best part of 180km, including the entire final 16km.

Obviously there was a headwind, but Polanc's ride suggests that, in spite of the headwind, the main peloton weren't exactly exerting themselves much. I don't think there was much hanging on - everyone looked relatively comfortable to me.

I think it was more a case of no-one wanting to show their hand too early in the race, nobody wanting to use their domestiques to create a really hard pace which may accidentally set up an attack for a rival to gain time.

Polanc didn't have to worry about someone benefiting greatly from being in his wheel due to the headwind, so he could go as hard as he could.

Well clearly that was his only tactic. But, if the headwind was that ferocious and the chasing group chose to ride on the limit of what they could do, then there is no way he would have survived doing that having been in the break all day. Especially as the chasing group had domestiques setting the pace nearly the whole way.

But they didn't. No one wanted their domestiques to set a hard pace to reel in Polanc, because that could then leave them vulnerable to a counter attack. So in the end, the GC favourites basically just soft pedalled up until the final 2km - which is why none of them lost any time.

That is sort of exactly what I was hinting at with my post. Anyone riding hard on the front of the favourites group would make life difficult for nobody but themselves. So it's perfectly understandable nobody wanted to do it. I think we agree, but you're maybe a bit more critical towards the favourites than I am.

@gregrowlerson: Speaking of a 2012 scenario: The last couple of mountain stages would be epic if Quintana & co suddenly realised they had been riding around Italy with Dumoulin & Jungels at s.t. until then.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

To the people complaining about the borefest that was yesterday's stage.

Did you see the running fan with the Russian flag with approximately 2 kilometres to go (and especially his flag)? It was obvious that there was a howling headwind all the way (with some sections of cross-head wind) and that clearly made it impossible to do anything more than just hanging on. They were even riding in an echelon in the sections with cross-head wind.

Then how come Polanc managed to win pretty comfortably, going solo on the entire climb after being in the break all day? If the heawind was so bad that riders could just hang on, then he would have had no chance fighting it for the best part of 180km, including the entire final 16km.

Obviously there was a headwind, but Polanc's ride suggests that, in spite of the headwind, the main peloton weren't exactly exerting themselves much. I don't think there was much hanging on - everyone looked relatively comfortable to me.

I think it was more a case of no-one wanting to show their hand too early in the race, nobody wanting to use their domestiques to create a really hard pace which may accidentally set up an attack for a rival to gain time.

Polanc didn't have to worry about someone benefiting greatly from being in his wheel due to the headwind, so he could go as hard as he could.

Well clearly that was his only tactic. But, if the headwind was that ferocious and the chasing group chose to ride on the limit of what they could do, then there is no way he would have survived doing that having been in the break all day. Especially as the chasing group had domestiques setting the pace nearly the whole way.

But they didn't. No one wanted their domestiques to set a hard pace to reel in Polanc, because that could then leave them vulnerable to a counter attack. So in the end, the GC favourites basically just soft pedalled up until the final 2km - which is why none of them lost any time.

That is sort of exactly what I was hinting at with my post. Anyone riding hard on the front of the favourites group would make life difficult for nobody but themselves. So it's perfectly understandable nobody wanted to do it.

@gregrowlerson: Speaking of a 2012 scenario: The last couple of mountain stages would be epic if Quintana & co suddenly realised they had been riding around Italy with Dumoulin & Jungels at s.t. until then.

Yeah, but the headwind wasn't the main reason why the favourites didn't try anything. Quintana, Nibali, FDJ and Sky in particular had more than enough domestiques to drive a hard pace to put other rivals under pressure early on the climb, without having to stick their nose into the wind at all.

They didn't because it's stage 4, and no one really wanted the MR so early and also no-one was sure of anyone elses form so didn't want to make the first move. So no-one used their team to drive the pace on and risk revealing their hand.

Even when Landa dropped, the other teams didn't really do much to put him under pressure. He managed to close a 30 second gap to a big bunch just by himself and then later with one team-mate. The favourites just weren't interested in racing seriously yesterday and the 2nd tier riders were more than happy to just survive.

 

[Squire]

Which is all very understandable and nothing to be disappointed about, in my view. The only thing that surprises me is that the stage hunting teams didn't go in the breakaway early on, when it was so obvious the break had a good chance.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Which is all very understandable and nothing to be disappointed about, in my view. The only thing that surprises me is that the stage hunting teams didn't go in the breakaway early on, when it was so obvious the break had a good chance.

Yeah, the stage hunting teams (*cough* Cannnondale) really messed up. It's kind of difficult to know why they didn't go all in for this stage, given that the next few look fairly easy to control for the sprint teams.

I guess in general though, the dullness of the stage, is just a problem of having a high mountain stage so early in the race, with no gaps on GC. Especially one with gentle gradients where there is relatively little to be gained by a potentially risky attack. Stick that stage in the third week and, even with the headwind, I think we would have seen some fireworks and certainly no win for Polanc.

 

[Escarabajo]

I think Moreno's fans need to understand the difference in the reactions to the problem. And also that reporter Christian Gatti from Tuttobici.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rosa-hits-back-at-calls-for-him-to-be-expelled-from-giro-ditalia/

What Rosa did was not equivalent to what Moreno did. It just isn't. Sorry!!