2017 Giro d'Italia, Stage 4: Cefalú - Etna 181 km

[Richeypen]

Re: Re:

Both of them deserve to be thrown out of the race, no doubt. Punishing only Moreno would send out a wrong message, as his initial elbow shown in the video clip had to be a reaction to something that Rosa did or said prior to it. Provocation and the ensuing reaction should always be punished in equal measure, at least in sporting competitions. Acting otherwise would openly endorse devious attitude and behaviour within a competition.

In the video above you could see what Rosa did. He threw an elbow when Moreno passed him and probably pushed him out of the way. It looked like a tamed elbow. You didn't even noticed. Then Moreno slowed down and threw a punch. Not satisfied with the punch he pushed him out into the crowds. Not comparable if you ask me.

This video: https://d.filebox.moe/ptmyvwop.mp4

Tussling like this goes on all the time, its part of racing. Moreno lost his head and took it too far though and has been rightly punnished

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Remind how long suspension Grivko got ?

Or is it depending on the crime ? If you make someone bleed ? Caught on camera ?
Hurt somones feelings ? Or just depending on what team the ride for ?

45 days.

There needs to be consistency in this. It sets an incredibly bad precedent if they don't

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Re:

Both of them deserve to be thrown out of the race, no doubt. Punishing only Moreno would send out a wrong message, as his initial elbow shown in the video clip had to be a reaction to something that Rosa did or said prior to it. Provocation and the ensuing reaction should always be punished in equal measure, at least in sporting competitions. Acting otherwise would openly endorse devious attitude and behaviour within a competition.

In the video above you could see what Rosa did. He threw an elbow when Moreno passed him and probably pushed him out of the way. It looked like a tamed elbow. You didn't even noticed. Then Moreno slowed down and threw a punch. Not satisfied with the punch he pushed him out into the crowds. Not comparable if you ask me.

This video: https://d.filebox.moe/ptmyvwop.mp4

Yeah, I missed those first couple of seconds in the video. In the end it makes Rosa looking much worse as my initial understanding of the situation. Moreno's move was quite dangerous and could have caused a crash, but Rosa reacting by throwing an elbow severely escalated the situation.

Later Moreno went much further over the top in his retaliation and should receive a much longer ban on top of being thrown out of the Giro. Initial punishment of DQ should also be applied to Rosa though, as without him thowing an elbow this incident would have been just another close shave among many in tightly packed peloton of riders fighting for position.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

Both of them deserve to be thrown out of the race, no doubt. Punishing only Moreno would send out a wrong message, as his initial elbow shown in the video clip had to be a reaction to something that Rosa did or said prior to it. Provocation and the ensuing reaction should always be punished in equal measure, at least in sporting competitions. Acting otherwise would openly endorse devious attitude and behaviour within a competition.

In the video above you could see what Rosa did. He threw an elbow when Moreno passed him and probably pushed him out of the way. It looked like a tamed elbow. You didn't even noticed. Then Moreno slowed down and threw a punch. Not satisfied with the punch he pushed him out into the crowds. Not comparable if you ask me.

This video: https://d.filebox.moe/ptmyvwop.mp4

Thanks for posting the video. I didn't see the stage this AM. I always liked Moreno, and was surprised and disappointed to log onto to CN and see that he had been tossed from race. Now that I see what happened, yeah, it was dangerous, esp to the fans standing roadside. Can see why the commissaires had to take action.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Be afraid, be very afraid...

 

[Valv.Piti]

The Der Kaiser-reference had to come at one point. I wouldn't mind, Jungels is a frickin classy rider.

 

[PeterB]

What Moreno did deserved the DQ. What Rosa did I am not sure... maybe some fine at most but DQ would seem too harsh (judging only based on the video, who knows what else was involved..)

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

Remind how long suspension Grivko got ?

Or is it depending on the crime ? If you make someone bleed ? Caught on camera ?
Hurt somones feelings ? Or just depending on what team the ride for ?

45 days in which no important race where he would appear is ridden vs. being thrown out at the beginning of a GT that's probably your team's greatest season goal. I'd say the latter is actually harder punishment.

 

[Vesica]

Re:

Btw, Kruijswijk himself says legs felt good, he expanded some energy coming back from that crash tho.

I think it's just his usual 1st week level. Last year he was lucky there wasn't really a tough mt finish in the 1st week. And yet, he didn't lose time today. All in all, too early to call. (definately too early to call for Kruijswijk. Considering he's been 10+ minutes behind and still finishing 7th)

Indeed. Kruijswijk is always improving during the last Giros. Third week will be Crushweek

 

[hfer07]

Re:

Pelucchi looked like a mess at the finish line.

what the F..... crashing on the descent before Etna? damn that must be hurting

 

[hfer07]

Re: Re:

So, I read on Twitter Diego Rosa used his elbow on Moreno.
If this is true, then its only fair to DQ him too

Reliable source on twitter or some random fan?

https://d.filebox.moe/ptmyvwop.mp4

Rosa started the friction with that sketchy elbow....

 

[super_domestique]

Rosa touched Moreno's bottom. Moreno pushed Rosa off his bike!

 

[Pricey_sky]

Looked like the 2 riders got quite close and elbows were flashed across each other, though it appears Rosa missed Moreno but Moreno then retaliated by shoving Rosa off the road. Correct decision to DQ Moreno, if I was Nibali I'd be furious with his teammate.

 

[lenric]

Be afraid, be very afraid...

They're not very different.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Rosa touched Moreno's bottom. Moreno pushed Rosa off his bike!

I guess we understand, by Moreno's reaction, that he does not like to be touched on his a$$.

 

[Koba80]

Re:

Both of them deserve to be thrown out of the race, no doubt. Punishing only Moreno would send out a wrong message, as his initial elbow shown in the video clip had to be a reaction to something that Rosa did or said prior to it. Provocation and the ensuing reaction should always be punished in equal measure, at least in sporting competitions. Acting otherwise would openly endorse devious attitude and behaviour within a competition.

No. All sports punish retaliation at a higher level. For obvious reasons. Cf. Rugby, hockey, etc...

 

[Eagle]

Re:

Looked like the 2 riders got quite close and elbows were flashed across each other, though it appears Rosa missed Moreno but Moreno then retaliated by shoving Rosa off the road. Correct decision to DQ Moreno, if I was Nibali I'd be furious with his teammate.

He clearly made some contact considering Moreno's bike started wobbling

 

[Rollthedice]

Bahrain released a statement apologizing and acknowledging the DQ plus a picture with a very sad Moreno. What an idiot.

 

[Tank Engine]

Well, if the best thing about the stage was echelons on a climb, then it can't have been that good, but you can understand why.

Polanc, how dare you, without you I would have predicted the first two correctly
A deserved win.

 

[Mr.White]

Sorry posted this in the Nairo thread by mistake ....
Didn't see the stage but it seems the GC kept their power dry with Nibali just testing the waters. Probably a bit of a letdown after the fireworks let off by Contador on Etna in 2011. I am encouraged that some think Kruijswijk can challenge in the 3rd week I would love to see him put the hurt on Nibs after last year's injustice. Quintana probably holding back with his TdF ambitions, the other GC teams need to put the hurt on him this Giro or else they will pay the price in the TdF.

What injustice?

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Re:

Both of them deserve to be thrown out of the race, no doubt. Punishing only Moreno would send out a wrong message, as his initial elbow shown in the video clip had to be a reaction to something that Rosa did or said prior to it. Provocation and the ensuing reaction should always be punished in equal measure, at least in sporting competitions. Acting otherwise would openly endorse devious attitude and behaviour within a competition.

No. All sports punish retaliation at a higher level. For obvious reasons. Cf. Rugby, hockey, etc...

I know they do and absolutely don't agree with this kind of approach.That kind of attitude actively encourages athletes to cheat . Unfortunately, as you said, it is widespread across most of the sports.

 

[Durden93]

I think this was a great result for Dumoulin.

 

[spiritualride]

Re:

Not a good day for Quintana unless he expects to match the likes of Dumoulin in the time trials. I wish the Milan ITT was a sprint stage instead , with a long ITT on stage 3 in Sardinia. Climbers would have to face the reality of their time trialing ability instead of wishful thinking.

So many GC contenders all even on time now and there aren't any dominant teams. This is getting interesting.

Stage 3 it seemed really easy to get in the break too. There was no real battle for it. So why don't more teams put a rider in the break?

Kruijswijk really needs to improve. Was horrible on the Etna

What happened ?

 

[Tank Engine]

Re: Re:

Kruijswijk really needs to improve. Was horrible on the Etna

What happened ?

Nothing. Kruijswijk finished in the main group. By the middle of Blockhaus his turbo diesel should start purring.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Both of them deserve to be thrown out of the race, no doubt. Punishing only Moreno would send out a wrong message, as his initial elbow shown in the video clip had to be a reaction to something that Rosa did or said prior to it. Provocation and the ensuing reaction should always be punished in equal measure, at least in sporting competitions. Acting otherwise would openly endorse devious attitude and behaviour within a competition.

No. All sports punish retaliation at a higher level. For obvious reasons. Cf. Rugby, hockey, etc...

I know they do and absolutely don't agree with this kind of approach.That kind of attitude actively encourages athletes to cheat . Unfortunately, as you said, it is widespread across most of the sports.

I would agree with you in that I wish these things were reviewed by default across all sports (cycling's actually quite good at this). At times the initial action was worse (eye-gouging, groin punches, etc) but the official only catches the reaction, which is at times far less violent but far more egregious (typically, a push -not that dangerous outside cycling).

Not in this case. Leaning your elbow into someone's torso is rarely if ever punished. If it were you'd have to kick out perhaps dozens of riders on some sprint stages. Either that or establish a position where something that is commonplace is then harshly punished when there is a reaction to it. Which is a far worse state of affairs, IMHO. Meanwhile, blatantly shoving someone into the spectators is an inexorably disqualifying action.

But YMMV, as ever.