2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2, 260k

[saganftw]

sounds respectable to me

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Pretty sure Farrar top 5'd Vlaanderen once too.

Bunch sprint. Doesn't make him a respectable cobbled specialist. He finished almost 3 minutes behind the winner.

Anyone who thinks Farrar is a classics specialist doesn't know anything about cycling. The results throughout his career speak for themselves.

 

[Sciatic]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2,

Farrar:
27.02.2011 4 Kuurne - Bruxelles - Kuurne
10.03.2011 1 Tirreno - Adriatico 2
11.03.2011 2 Tirreno - Adriatico 3
23.03.2011 3 A travers les Flandres
27.03.2011 3 Gand - Wevelgem
03.04.2011 13 Tour des Flandres


28.03.2010 9 Gand - Wevelgem ProTour Historique
01.04.2010 1 3 Jours De La Panne 3 De Panne - De Panne ME 2.HC. UCI Européen
04.04.2010 5 Tour des Flandres


Yes, I'm a fanboy. He's from a nearby city, I've seen him show up at local cyclocross races unannounced, I've heard him at several talks, his father is a cool story, and hey, he lives in Gent, so don't give him a hard time about the Spring classics

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2,

Farrar:
27.02.2011 4 Kuurne - Bruxelles - Kuurne
10.03.2011 1 Tirreno - Adriatico 2
11.03.2011 2 Tirreno - Adriatico 3
23.03.2011 3 A travers les Flandres
27.03.2011 3 Gand - Wevelgem
03.04.2011 13 Tour des Flandres


28.03.2010 9 Gand - Wevelgem ProTour Historique
01.04.2010 1 3 Jours De La Panne 3 De Panne - De Panne ME 2.HC. UCI Européen
04.04.2010 5 Tour des Flandres


Yes, I'm a fanboy. He's from a nearby city, I've seen him show up at local cyclocross races unannounced, I've heard him at several talks, his father is a cool story, and hey, he lives in Gent, so don't give him a hard time about the Spring classics

Not sure why you write those races in French...

G-W was only 200km in 2011 and had a very easy course compared to today. It wasn't really a classic back then. Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne has been won by the likes of Cavendish. It also has quite an easy profile and only the weather can make it a hard race.

Those stages in the Driedaagse de Panne and T-A were all flat...

Farrar is (was) a sprinter, those are the results decent sprinters can attain. Doesn't make him a classics specialist however.

 

[saganftw]

nobody called farrar a classics specialist, im not sure why are you making up stuff and then argue against it

 

[Sciatic]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2,

Farrar:
27.02.2011 4 Kuurne - Bruxelles - Kuurne
10.03.2011 1 Tirreno - Adriatico 2
11.03.2011 2 Tirreno - Adriatico 3
23.03.2011 3 A travers les Flandres
27.03.2011 3 Gand - Wevelgem
03.04.2011 13 Tour des Flandres


28.03.2010 9 Gand - Wevelgem ProTour Historique
01.04.2010 1 3 Jours De La Panne 3 De Panne - De Panne ME 2.HC. UCI Européen
04.04.2010 5 Tour des Flandres




Yes, I'm a fanboy. He's from a nearby city, I've seen him show up at local cyclocross races unannounced, I've heard him at several talks, his father is a cool story, and hey, he lives in Gent, so don't give him a hard time about the Spring classics

Not sure why you write those races in French...

G-W was only 200km in 2011 and had a very easy course compared to today. It wasn't really a classic back then. Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne has been won by the likes of Cavendish. It also has quite an easy profile and only the weather can make it a hard race.

Those stages in the Driedaagse de Panne and T-A were all flat...

Farrar is (was) a sprinter, those are the results decent sprinters can attain. Doesn't make him a classics specialist however.

For once, it's easy to respond to you.
1. Results in French cause that's the site I used
2. No one claimed he was a classics specialist, the point Was he could occasionally get a good result in these races in that period of time
3. You appear to want to argue about the meaningfulness of those results. I don't. Since you chose to disparage his results I thought I would just lay them out clearly. It's not to say he's bee that good at these. I bring it up because Ilike him, I like that he's dedicated to tackling these races even though he's not a specialist.

Some of theses Flemish roads are the first he ever rode on in Europe. He first came to race in Europe with the US junior national team and their first training came and base was just outside Wevelgem.

Now back to the regularly scheduled arguments . . .

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

nobody called farrar a classics specialist, im not sure why are you making up stuff and then argue against it

"Respectable cobble rider"

He's simply not. Farrar also thought he was a cobbled classics specialist after that 5th place in the Ronde and he was going to focus more on it... Well... we all know how that turned out.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

nobody called farrar a classics specialist, im not sure why are you making up stuff and then argue against it

"Respectable cobble rider"

He's simply not. Farrar also thought he was a cobbled classics specialist after that 5th place in the Ronde and he was going to focus more on it... Well... we all know how that turned out.

Bunch sprint or not, a 5th place in the Tour of Flanders makes you a "respectable cobble rider", period.

Does that make him a "cobble classics specialist"?, absolutely not. That much I will agree with you.

His results speak for themselves, they say he's certainly not pack fodder and no doubt not a specialist but they also say he's respectable at riding cobbled classics.

Cheers

 

[hrotha]

Someone says Farrar was a "respectable" cobble rider -> Pisti throws a fit about how that might be arguably a bit inaccurate
Pisti says Cavendish is crap in echelons -> "It's hyperbole christ calm down"

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

His good performance in 2015? That was a super easy stage in which none of the favorites could take time from each other, even Contador finished in the same time. And BS at Valverde crashing in 2014. It's cobbles, if you crash it's your own fault. Can't crash if no one is in front of you.

Terpstra only won Roubaix because he rode in the same team as Boonen/Quick-Step.

Well, you must be one of those alternative facts guys. I don't really have any desire to argue with that lot, so I'm just letting these absurdities stay unanswered.

I realise defending Pisti is a niche occupation, but, you know, all of those facts are actually true.

EDITED TO INCLUDE ACTUAL DISCUSSION OF THE RACE: Degenkolb is a very interesting rider at this point; clearly desperate for a win, but not on his greatest form. He is probably the strongest sprinter who could conceivably get to the finish line, so I think he might be getting a bit underrated. Would also be the only active rider to have three separate monuments (as would my favourite, Gilbert).

 

[DenisMenchov]

Erviti FTW!

 

[Valv.Piti]

I will be watching the start, go on a long bike ride with my brother and head back for the last 3 hours. Will drink a couple of beers, maybe get semi dizzy Belgian style, and root for Gilbert to eat Sagan.

Viva Tour de Vlaanderen!

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Someone says Farrar was a "respectable" cobble rider -> Pisti throws a fit about how that might be arguably a bit inaccurate
Pisti says Cavendish is crap in echelons -> "It's hyperbole christ calm down"

2007: abandoned
2008: 54th
2009: did not race
2010: 5th
2011: 13th
2012: 99th
2013: 46th
2014: 47th
2015: 58th
2016: 117th

That fifth place was a fluke. It was a group of 30 riders finishing in the same time. Does this make Lance Armstrong a respectable cobble rider? He was in the same group. It's more wise to look at the time here, he finished 2.34 minutes behind Cancellara, that's an eternity. My guess is a lot of guys behind Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert and Leukemans were looking at each other which is why everything came back together.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

I will be watching the start, go on a long bike ride with my brother and head back for the last 3 hours. Will drink a couple of beers, maybe get semi dizzy Belgian style, and root for Gilbert to eat Sagan.

Viva Tour de Vlaanderen!

Sounds great! I'm going to wake up at 4:30 am to tune into the earliest coverage that I can do without destroying the rest of my Sunday...

I think Quickstep is going to mark Sagan out of the race to open it up for either Degankolb, Kristoff, Gilbert/Boonan and GVA.

Bora just doesn't have the firepower to race against BMC and Quickstep with Trek/Katusha possibly providing an upset.

Personally I'd like to see Sagan win but a Gilbert or better yet Boonan victory would be pretty cool too.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

That fifth place was a fluke. It was a group of 30 riders finishing in the same time. Does this make Lance Armstrong a respectable cobble rider? He was in the same group. It's more wise to look at the time here, he finished 2.34 minutes behind Cancellara, that's an eternity. My guess is a lot of guys behind Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert and Leukemans were looking at each other which is why everything came back together.

Why are you so fixated on that Ronde? He was also 3rd at OHN, 3rd at DDV, 9th at a GW that didn't come to a bunch sprint, 8th at E3 a few years later. I dunno, that all looks "respectable" to me.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

I will be watching the start, go on a long bike ride with my brother and head back for the last 3 hours. Will drink a couple of beers, maybe get semi dizzy Belgian style, and root for Gilbert to eat Sagan.

Viva Tour de Vlaanderen!

He's a cannibal now?
Sure, try to win, but I'm pretty sure eating your opponents is against the rules.

 

[The Barb]

Re:

Someone says Farrar was a "respectable" cobble rider -> Pisti throws a fit about how that might be arguably a bit inaccurate
Pisti says Cavendish is crap in echelons -> "It's hyperbole christ calm down"

Mike drop.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

That fifth place was a fluke. It was a group of 30 riders finishing in the same time. Does this make Lance Armstrong a respectable cobble rider? He was in the same group. It's more wise to look at the time here, he finished 2.34 minutes behind Cancellara, that's an eternity. My guess is a lot of guys behind Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert and Leukemans were looking at each other which is why everything came back together.

Why are you so fixated on that Ronde? He was also 3rd at OHN, 3rd at DDV, 9th at a GW that didn't come to a bunch sprint, 8th at E3 a few years later. I dunno, that all looks "respectable" to me.

I'd still never identify Farrar as a cobbled rider, but it's ok if you do.

Hasn't had any decent results since 2011.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

That fifth place was a fluke. It was a group of 30 riders finishing in the same time. Does this make Lance Armstrong a respectable cobble rider? He was in the same group. It's more wise to look at the time here, he finished 2.34 minutes behind Cancellara, that's an eternity. My guess is a lot of guys behind Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert and Leukemans were looking at each other which is why everything came back together.

Why are you so fixated on that Ronde? He was also 3rd at OHN, 3rd at DDV, 9th at a GW that didn't come to a bunch sprint, 8th at E3 a few years later. I dunno, that all looks "respectable" to me.

I'd still never identify Farrar as a cobbled rider, but it's ok if you do.

Hasn't had any decent results since 2011.

In any race since 2011. Not just the cobbles.

 

[shalgo]

Re: Re:

Hasn't had any decent results since 2011.

Moving the goalposts again: the point was that Farrar was once a decent cobbles rider, not that he is one now (and not that he was ever a specialist). And anyway, from 2014:

28/03/2014 1.WT2 Bel 8 E3 Prijs Vlaanderen - Harelbeke 58
26/03/2014 1.HC Bel 2 Dwars door Vlaanderen 84

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

nobody called farrar a classics specialist, im not sure why are you making up stuff and then argue against it

"Respectable cobble rider"

He's simply not. Farrar also thought he was a cobbled classics specialist after that 5th place in the Ronde and he was going to focus more on it... Well... we all know how that turned out.

The point of Anderis describing him as a (former) "respectable cobbled rider" is precisely that it does not imply that he is or was a top classics specialist.

Anyone who can finish top 5 at the Ronde, even leaving his results in smaller cobbled races aside entirely, is by definition a respectable cobbled rider. You don't describe a notable specialist as "respectable" at his specialty. You describe someone who is competent but not great as respectable. And seriously, what kind of insane definition of "respectable" would anyone have to be using for top 5 at either cobbled monument not to make the grade?

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

I will be watching the start, go on a long bike ride with my brother and head back for the last 3 hours. Will drink a couple of beers, maybe get semi dizzy Belgian style, and root for Gilbert to eat Sagan.

Viva Tour de Vlaanderen!

Sounds great! I'm going to wake up at 4:30 am to tune into the earliest coverage that I can do without destroying the rest of my Sunday...

I think Quickstep is going to mark Sagan out of the race to open it up for either Degankolb, Kristoff, Gilbert/Boonan and GVA.

Bora just doesn't have the firepower to race against BMC and Quickstep with Trek/Katusha possibly providing an upset.

Personally I'd like to see Sagan win but a Gilbert or better yet Boonan victory would be pretty cool too.

Similar early Sunday here.

You may not be too far from reality with your predictions. Seems like QS only goal is to make Sagan lose.

That's what happen when the senile old man Lefevere cant sleep at night because he is still regretting not signing up Sagan when he had the opportunity. Must the biggest mistake of his life and a nightmare that keeps haunting him at night.

I hope Sagan can rub it into his face tomorrow with another Ronde win. QS used to be one of my favorite teams, but now they are a bit desperate with this "Sagan must lose" obsession.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

nobody called farrar a classics specialist, im not sure why are you making up stuff and then argue against it

"Respectable cobble rider"

He's simply not. Farrar also thought he was a cobbled classics specialist after that 5th place in the Ronde and he was going to focus more on it... Well... we all know how that turned out.

The point of Anderis describing him as a (former) "respectable cobbled rider" is precisely that it does not imply that he is or was a top classics specialist.

Anyone who can finish top 5 at the Ronde, even leaving his results in smaller cobbled races aside entirely, is by definition a respectable cobbled rider. You don't describe a notable specialist as "respectable" at his specialty. You describe someone who is competent but not great as respectable. And seriously, what kind of insane definition of "respectable" would anyone have to be using for top 5 at either cobbled monument not to make the grade?

Not every fifth place is the same bro. Gilbert's 8th place in 2011 is far more impressive.

If you want my respect you better attack or show yourself during the race. I have no recollection of Farrar during any cobbled race what so ever.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re: Re:

nobody called farrar a classics specialist, im not sure why are you making up stuff and then argue against it

"Respectable cobble rider"

He's simply not. Farrar also thought he was a cobbled classics specialist after that 5th place in the Ronde and he was going to focus more on it... Well... we all know how that turned out.

The point of Anderis describing him as a (former) "respectable cobbled rider" is precisely that it does not imply that he is or was a top classics specialist.

Anyone who can finish top 5 at the Ronde, even leaving his results in smaller cobbled races aside entirely, is by definition a respectable cobbled rider. You don't describe a notable specialist as "respectable" at his specialty. You describe someone who is competent but not great as respectable. And seriously, what kind of insane definition of "respectable" would anyone have to be using for top 5 at either cobbled monument not to make the grade?

Not every fifth place is the same bro. Gilbert's 8th place in 2011 is far more impressive.

If you want my respect you better attack or show yourself during the race. I have no recollection of Farrar during any cobbled race what so ever.

We should start a new thread for Farrar v Gilbert I think it merits deeper discussion.

 

[meat puppet]

Agreed. Also ban posters other than pistolero from the thread.