2017 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya, March 20-26, WT

[GraftPunk]

Thank goodness that jerk didn't win.

 

[TommyGun]

Re:

Thank goodness that jerk didn't win.

Jesus man, take a chill

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Why doesn't everyone calm the f down and wait and see what the ttt does to the race? I wasn't expecting paris-nice to be amazing, but it was the finest stage race of the last 5 years.

Indeed, some people are going into overdrive because it doesn't necessarily fit their favourite rider.

It's just not ideal for a one week stage race. There are not enough opportunities available to make up the potential time loss resulting from the TTT. Certainly the incentive behind some posts here is that it disadvantages a rider or team that they support but that doesn't change the fact that it gives a decided advantage to certain teams and riders for those teams.

 

[Lexman]

Re:

Thank goodness that jerk didn't win.

my thoughts exactly

 

[King Boonen]

Damn it! Went too soon.

 

[May0maniac]

A good result for Cimolai, he was already really strong in MSR when he was working for Demare.

 

[GraftPunk]

Re: Re:

Thank goodness that jerk didn't win.

Jesus man, take a chill

I'm very chill. To me he is an extremely unlikeable rider prone to violence, who has an inability to keep his line... I simply expressed that opinion succinctly. Cheers!

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Re: Re:

Why doesn't everyone calm the f down and wait and see what the ttt does to the race? I wasn't expecting paris-nice to be amazing, but it was the finest stage race of the last 5 years.

Indeed, some people are going into overdrive because it doesn't necessarily fit their favourite rider.

It's just not ideal for a one week stage race. There are not enough opportunities available to make up the potential time loss resulting from the TTT. Certainly the incentive behind some posts here is that it disadvantages a rider or team that they support but that doesn't change the fact that it gives a decided advantage to certain teams and riders for those teams.

They know what the stages are like well in advance, so why can't they pick a team that will give them the best opportunity of limiting time loss/making most time in the TTT if that is possibly gonna be the deciding stage? If they can't make up a decent team for their team leader, then send a B team and send their A team to a stage race that suits their team more. The powers that be can't make everyone happy.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

They know what the stages are like well in advance, so why can't they pick a team that will give them the best opportunity of limiting time loss/making most time in the TTT if that is possibly gonna be the deciding stage? If they can't make up a decent team for their team leader, then send a B team and send their A team to a stage race that suits their team more. The powers that be can't make everyone happy.

Being a GC rider on a weak team isn't a big enough disadvantage already, best make achieving a good result even harder by giving them 2 minutes to make up vs the stronger teams :lol:

 

[Anderis]

For a moment I thought that Froome was the Sky rider who attacked with 2 kms to go. :lol:

 

[DFA123]

I don't understand why outside bets for the GC don't take much bigger gambles with their teams - especially in the Tour de France, where Froome and Sky are so dominant. Riders like Bardet, Aru, Porte, Pinot and maybe even Contador in the Tour - guys who aren't realistically going to win barring some kind of freak event or a series of crashes.

Instead of going in with a team of 3/4 rouleurs and 4 climbers - nearly all of whom will get dropped early anyway - why not go with a team of 7 rouleurs / classics guys and no climbers, and try to wreak havoc on flat stages, where there is the potential to gain enough time to win a GT. Sure, you'd be vulnerable in the mountains if you ever had to defend yellow, but at least you'd have a chance of getting into yellow and giving Sky a really different problem, rather than allowing them to just shell ineffectual climbing domestiques one by one on mountain stages, with the likes of Poels and Landa riding tempo.

Perhaps they just value finishing highly too much and want the option to defend their 3rd place or whatever. Which is a shame.

 

[yaco]

Re:

I don't understand why outside bets for the GC don't take much bigger gambles with their teams - especially in the Tour de France, where Froome and Sky are so dominant. Riders like Bardet, Aru, Porte, Pinot and maybe even Contador in the Tour - guys who aren't realistically going to win barring some kind of freak event or a series of crashes.

Instead of going in with a team of 3/4 rouleurs and 4 climbers - nearly all of whom will get dropped early anyway - why not go with a team of 7 rouleurs / classics guys and no climbers, and try to wreak havoc on flat stages, where there is the potential to gain enough time to win a GT. Sure, you'd be vulnerable in the mountains if you ever had to defend yellow, but at least you'd have a chance of getting into yellow and giving Sky a really different problem, rather than allowing them to just shell ineffectual climbing domestiques one by one on mountain stages, with the likes of Poels and Landa riding tempo.

Perhaps they just value finishing highly too much and want the option to defend their 3rd place or whatever. Which is a shame.

Exactly my argument since the last TDF - The GC rider only needs two mountain domestiques, preferably strong domesiques - The rouleurs/classic riders can help in medium mountains, as well as potentially creating havoc in the flatter sections.

 

[Valv.Piti]

888SPORT
BMC @ 1,50
Sky @ 3,60
Movistar @ 6,00
Trek @ 21,00
Orica @ 23,00

Movistar @ 6,00 looks good, but BMC obviously the favourites. I don't see Sky being better than Movistar tomorrow.

 

[Breh]

Re: Re:

I don't understand why outside bets for the GC don't take much bigger gambles with their teams - especially in the Tour de France, where Froome and Sky are so dominant. Riders like Bardet, Aru, Porte, Pinot and maybe even Contador in the Tour - guys who aren't realistically going to win barring some kind of freak event or a series of crashes.

Instead of going in with a team of 3/4 rouleurs and 4 climbers - nearly all of whom will get dropped early anyway - why not go with a team of 7 rouleurs / classics guys and no climbers, and try to wreak havoc on flat stages, where there is the potential to gain enough time to win a GT. Sure, you'd be vulnerable in the mountains if you ever had to defend yellow, but at least you'd have a chance of getting into yellow and giving Sky a really different problem, rather than allowing them to just shell ineffectual climbing domestiques one by one on mountain stages, with the likes of Poels and Landa riding tempo.

Perhaps they just value finishing highly too much and want the option to defend their 3rd place or whatever. Which is a shame.

Exactly my argument since the last TDF - The GC rider only needs two mountain domestiques, preferably strong domesiques - The rouleurs/classic riders can help in medium mountains, as well as potentially creating havoc in the flatter sections.

It's not just Sky, they'll have to deal with all the other teams in the GC top10 aswell. And the massive amount of teams aiming for a sprint.

 

[Ricco']

What's the tie-breaker for the team classification when multiple teams have the same time? Isn't it the sum of the positions of the best 3 riders? I did the math following this method and I found some slight differences with the official classification. For instance, Sunweb and Ag2r have the same sum but the order is inverted (3rd Ag2r rider arrived in 70th, 3rd Sunweb rider arrived in 88th) and Katusha - Alpecin should be after Trek (Trek have a sum of 172 and Katusha of 217). Also, Trek and Lotto are tied but 3rd Trek rider was 65th and 3rd Lotto rider was 107th.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

888SPORT
BMC @ 1,50
Sky @ 3,60
Movistar @ 6,00
Trek @ 21,00
Orica @ 23,00

Movistar @ 6,00 looks good, but BMC obviously the favourites. I don't see Sky being better than Movistar tomorrow.

I'm surprised they've got Trek over Orica.

 

[luckyboy]

I'd think twice about putting this TTT in a Grand Tour, never mind a week-long stage race with one summit finish.

 

[snccdcno]

What's the tie-breaker for the team classification when multiple teams have the same time? Isn't it the sum of the positions of the best 3 riders? I did the math following this method and I found some slight differences with the official classification. For instance, Sunweb and Ag2r have the same sum but the order is inverted (3rd Ag2r rider arrived in 70th, 3rd Sunweb rider arrived in 88th) and Katusha - Alpecin should be after Trek (Trek have a sum of 172 and Katusha of 217). Also, Trek and Lotto are tied but 3rd Trek rider was 65th and 3rd Lotto rider was 107th.

If the time and sum are tied then the team with the highest placed rider on the stage is the next tiebreaker so Sunweb are ahead of AG2R as Bauhaus was 9th and Latour 21st, similarly Greipel was ahead of Gogl. On Katusha being ahead of Trek, no idea.

 

[roundabout]

10.2 – Stage Team classification
The team classification for the day shall be calculated on the basis of the sum of the three best individual
times from each team. In the event of a tie, the teams shall be separated by the sum of the places acquired by their three best times on the stage. If the teams are still tied, they shall be separated by the placing of their best rider on the stage classification.

No idea why Trek are behind Katusha as well

 

[Valv.Piti]

Also, is it just me, or does this race always seem super underwhelming despite the names turning up? Never really enjoyed it compared to P-N, T-A, Pais Vasco... doesn't feel like a big race for some reason.

 

[roundabout]

2015 was pretty fun.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Also, is it just me, or does this race always seem super underwhelming despite the names turning up? Never really enjoyed it compared to P-N, T-A, Pais Vasco... doesn't feel like a big race for some reason.

I think some of it is the poor coverage. I'm no fan of ASO but they should help there.

 

[search]

2015 was pretty fun.

yeah, indeed, but mainly because of those guys getting a head start due to the communication problems. And because there were no real mountain top finishes. Generally I feel like Valv.Piti. Although it's better now than those editions a couple of years back with no bonus seconds, when gc guys were trying to sprint for the podium in the final stage because they were all s.t.

Trek is ahead of Katusha in the day ranking by the way, so it's probably just a mistake they they (for some reason) were swapped in the overall team ranking

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Also, is it just me, or does this race always seem super underwhelming despite the names turning up? Never really enjoyed it compared to P-N, T-A, Pais Vasco... doesn't feel like a big race for some reason.

I agree. I think it is a combination of poor coverage, no long-distance action, simultation cobbles races, multiple stage wins by second-to-third tier sprinters (that not many care greatly about) and questionable route design that does the trick.

Even though the difference between Quintana and Contador was just seven seconds going into the final couple of stages last year, it just never felt realistic that Contador could find the time he needed. Not just because Quintana was stronger (which I don't think he was) but the route did just not offer any opportunities.

2015 was good though (despite of Valverde's annoying crash but what a beast he was), and the route looks better for this year's edition but we really have to reassess after tomorrow.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Also, is it just me, or does this race always seem super underwhelming despite the names turning up? Never really enjoyed it compared to P-N, T-A, Pais Vasco... doesn't feel like a big race for some reason.

Yeah I would agree with that. Some editions are better but most are pretty pedestrian. But I suppose with all of the races that have disappeared including some very old ones, we should not be too picky.