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2019 Tour de France, stage 9: Saint-Étienne>Brioude 170,5Km

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Re:

HelloDolly said:
I think so many of you key board warriors are very had on Benoot ...he is a rider who can win on tough terrain
Today's finish was not hard enough

Once Impey got back on there was only one winner ...and that would have been the same for all the top 10 on GC

Get a grip will ye
The discussion isn't about whether he is a good or bad rider. I think he's a great rider, but he's completely wasted at Lotto. The discussion was about what type of rider he was.

If Lotto want to send him stagehunting, then he needs to be able to drop everybody. I think he's one of the slowest riders of the entire peloton. Hist top speed in the sprint today was... 60 km/h. So if he's alone, with Impey at 7km from the finish, they need to tell him to stay in Impey's wheel until the finish. Force Impey to ride, or to sprint against Naesen and Stuyven. Basically, if he/Lotto can't get these tactics right, then there is no use of ever going stagehunting again, because he's not punchy enough on the climbs to drop all his companions, and he will never win a sprint.
 
Re:

Eyeballs Out said:
I love the way you can always win with tactics on here. Even if you're slower than the opposition uphill, downhill and on the flat
You think if Impey has to go full gas for 7k without help of Benoot, with a group with Naesen and Stuyven only 12 seconds back, that Benoot's chances wouldn't incrementally increase? He would force Impey to chose: either do all the work and go to the finish with Benoot. Or don't do the work, and go to the finish with Naesen and Stuyven. No, Benoot rode like he had a 50/50 chance (up until the last 1.2k)
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
HelloDolly said:
I think so many of you key board warriors are very had on Benoot ...he is a rider who can win on tough terrain
Today's finish was not hard enough

Once Impey got back on there was only one winner ...and that would have been the same for all the top 10 on GC

Get a grip will ye
The discussion isn't about whether he is a good or bad rider. I think he's a great rider, but he's completely wasted at Lotto. The discussion was about what type of rider he was.

If Lotto want to send him stagehunting, then he needs to be able to drop everybody. I think he's one of the slowest riders of the entire peloton. Hist top speed in the sprint today was... 60 km/h. So if he's alone, with Impey at 7km from the finish, they need to tell him to stay in Impey's wheel until the finish. Force Impey to ride, or to sprint against Naesen and Stuyven. Basically, if he/Lotto can't get these tactics right, then there is no use of ever going stagehunting again, because he's not punchy enough on the climbs to drop all his companions, and he will never win a sprint.
Benoot did drop everyone bar one guy :rolleyes: tough luck he was up against a fast guy like Impey, but on many occasions, he won't be. And he can surely beat Roche, or Soler, or... in a sprint.
 
Re:

yaco said:
Benoot's problem was his acceleration dropped Roche, so then he lost a willing helper - Roche stays and there are two riders to work over Impey.

Roche did all the work on the climb and blew himself some what

Then Benoot attacked after Impey joined them

Benoot I agree should have made Impey do all the work once he joined them and not dropped Roche
 
Re: Re:

Flamin said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
HelloDolly said:
I think so many of you key board warriors are very had on Benoot ...he is a rider who can win on tough terrain
Today's finish was not hard enough

Once Impey got back on there was only one winner ...and that would have been the same for all the top 10 on GC

Get a grip will ye
The discussion isn't about whether he is a good or bad rider. I think he's a great rider, but he's completely wasted at Lotto. The discussion was about what type of rider he was.

If Lotto want to send him stagehunting, then he needs to be able to drop everybody. I think he's one of the slowest riders of the entire peloton. Hist top speed in the sprint today was... 60 km/h. So if he's alone, with Impey at 7km from the finish, they need to tell him to stay in Impey's wheel until the finish. Force Impey to ride, or to sprint against Naesen and Stuyven. Basically, if he/Lotto can't get these tactics right, then there is no use of ever going stagehunting again, because he's not punchy enough on the climbs to drop all his companions, and he will never win a sprint.
Benoot did drop everyone bar one guy :rolleyes: tough luck he was up against a fast guy like Impey, but on many occasions, he won't be. And he can surely beat Roche, or Soler, or... in a sprint.
Not tough luck. This is the Tour de France. Chances that you are in a break with at least one guy who climbs better or is faster in the sprint, is very real. And i wouldn't be so sure he could win a sprint from a guy like Roche. In any way, it was not "tough luck" that made him work for Impey. That was sheer stupidity.

And that will be Benoot's story in about 99.9% of races. "Tough luck" to come up against "the one guy" that was better/faster/punchier/harder... Except it's usually not just one guy.
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Flamin said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
HelloDolly said:
I think so many of you key board warriors are very had on Benoot ...he is a rider who can win on tough terrain
Today's finish was not hard enough

Once Impey got back on there was only one winner ...and that would have been the same for all the top 10 on GC

Get a grip will ye
The discussion isn't about whether he is a good or bad rider. I think he's a great rider, but he's completely wasted at Lotto. The discussion was about what type of rider he was.

If Lotto want to send him stagehunting, then he needs to be able to drop everybody. I think he's one of the slowest riders of the entire peloton. Hist top speed in the sprint today was... 60 km/h. So if he's alone, with Impey at 7km from the finish, they need to tell him to stay in Impey's wheel until the finish. Force Impey to ride, or to sprint against Naesen and Stuyven. Basically, if he/Lotto can't get these tactics right, then there is no use of ever going stagehunting again, because he's not punchy enough on the climbs to drop all his companions, and he will never win a sprint.
Benoot did drop everyone bar one guy :rolleyes: tough luck he was up against a fast guy like Impey, but on many occasions, he won't be. And he can surely beat Roche, or Soler, or... in a sprint.
Not tough luck. This is the Tour de France. Chances that you are in a break with at least one guy who climbs better or is faster in the sprint, is very real. And i wouldn't be so sure he could win a sprint from a guy like Roche. In any way, it was not "tough luck" that made him work for Impey. That was sheer stupidity.

And that will be Benoot's story in about 99.9% of races. "Tough luck" to come up against "the one guy" that was better/faster/punchier/harder... Except it's usually not just one guy.
Wow. I count six riders in the break who are faster than Benoot. So that's a 57% chance to win.

Your numbers and assessment of Benoot's sprint are way off in my opinion. His problem probably is that he of course does not have a chance in sprints against other classics riders who tend to be faster than him, but of course people like Soler, Sicard, Tratnik and Tony Martin are not faster than Benoot...
 
Argue all you like. The guy has been one of the biggest talents for years now, and the only race he won, he won solo. I honestly do not think i'm underestimating his sprinting abilities, but it doesn't even matter. He's too much a jack of all trades, and i see him winning more 1 week stage races, than winning classics. But he doesn't want to commit to stageracing, so he'll need to start being smarter.

And if you count 6 guys who are faster, and you go to the finish with either of them, you don't have a 57% chance of winning. You have a 0% chance of winning. Being faster than the guys who don't make it to the front is meaningless. You need to be faster than the guys who do make it.
 
Re:

Danskebjerge said:
Stages like this one is the reason why I prefer one day races ... Zzz.
I prefer one day races too, but come on!, from the moment Pöstlberger went off the front of the break we had another exciting stage.

Impey's tatics on the final climb, sitting on Stuyven and Naesen then jumping to bridge to Benoot to set up a sprint against the worst sprinter there, having left two quality sprinters behind was a master stroke. Worthy of any one day race I'd say.

I enjoyed today's stage, and indeed all of the race so far, barring Friday of course. That is something to celebrate I reckon, for this race at this stage in proceedings.
 
Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Argue all you like. The guy has been one of the biggest talents for years now, and the only race he won, he won solo. I honestly do not think i'm underestimating his sprinting abilities, but it doesn't even matter. He's too much a jack of all trades, and i see him winning more 1 week stage races, than winning classics. But he doesn't want to commit to stageracing, so he'll need to start being smarter.

And if you count 6 guys who are faster, and you go to the finish with either of them, you don't have a 57% chance of winning. You have a 0% chance of winning. Being faster than the guys who don't make it to the front is meaningless. You need to be faster than the guys who do make it.
How many of his races were lost in small group sprints? I’ve only really been following the guy since his Strade win, but in the meantime I honestly cannot think of an instance where he lost out in a 2-up or 3-up. With all the “evidence “ of his sprinting ability (“he won the bunch kick for 5th in this race, and finished ahead of some fast men in this other one”) all lends to the idea that for all his watts, he doesn’t seem to have the smarts to always make it into the winning selection.
 
May 18, 2016
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Re: 2019 Tour de France, stage 9: Saint-Étienne>Brioude 170,

As a Froome fan, I really miss him not being in the Tour. NGL I hope Thomas doesn't win, as I have a feeling that if he does, Froome won't be given Tour leadership again.
 
Re: 2019 Tour de France, stage 9: Saint-Étienne>Brioude 170,

Oliwright said:
As a Froome fan, I really miss him not being in the Tour. NGL I hope Thomas doesn't win, as I have a feeling that if he does, Froome won't be given Tour leadership again.
It is doubtful that Froome will be able to recover well enough from his injuries at his age to get the leadership again, regardless of Thomas. Remember that Bernal will probably still improve a little more.
 
Re: Re:

Orbit501 said:
Danskebjerge said:
Stages like this one is the reason why I prefer one day races ... Zzz.
I prefer one day races too, but come on!, from the moment Pöstlberger went off the front of the break we had another exciting stage.

Impey's tatics on the final climb, sitting on Stuyven and Naesen then jumping to bridge to Benoot to set up a sprint against the worst sprinter there, having left two quality sprinters behind was a master stroke. Worthy of any one day race I'd say.

I enjoyed today's stage, and indeed all of the race so far, barring Friday of course. That is something to celebrate I reckon, for this race at this stage in proceedings.
He has used the same tactics to limit his losses to Porte on Willunga and win the GC of the TDU last 2 years
 
Re: 2019 Tour de France, stage 9: Saint-Étienne>Brioude 170,

gregrowlerson said:
Oliwright said:
As a Froome fan, I really miss him not being in the Tour. NGL I hope Thomas doesn't win, as I have a feeling that if he does, Froome won't be given Tour leadership again.
It is doubtful that Froome will be able to recover well enough from his injuries at his age to get the leadership again, regardless of Thomas. Remember that Bernal will probably still improve a little more.

Do you know nothing of what kindof person Chris Froome is
 
Tour wins at 34 or over are rare. Evans was the second oldest winner ever at 34. I think Froome's Tour winning days are over but if anyone could do it in the current era it would be him. At this stage Thomas is in a good position to win another Tour with a TT to come. The final mountain stages will be his biggest threat, whether his climbing form is as good as last year.
 

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