Giro d'Italia 2021 Giro d'Italia, Stage 14: Cittadella – Monte Zoncolan 204 km

[topt]

The only reason why some riders are dropping is not because they are not in top form. I could say the same thing about Bernal last year in the Tour. Roglic's win in the Vuelta in 2018. I get tired of reading these silly posts as soon as we see someone dominating the race. But before the race everyone was doubting him.

he was the top favorite to win like everywhere you looked

 

[will-10]

Right now we have 7 real GC riders left, Caruso, Ciccone, Vlasov, have never been near the top 5 in a CG. Carthy and Buchmann each have 1 good GT result. Of them Buchmann I would say is a tiny bit below top shape, Carthy isnt reaching new hights either. Caruso is 33 and we kind of know what he can do and what he normally cant, him being in 3rd place is a strong indicator that this field isnt the strongest right now.

Ah, the classic CN forum weak-field argument. It's been too long...

 

[topt]

It's not really the team who picked the leader. They had 2 co-leaders and 1 of them had a total off-day in the first week. Not much you can do as a team then.

I am quite sure they said Almeida was the team leader before the start, like many many times

 

[Bonimenier]

I am quite sure they said Almeida was the team leader before the start, like many many times

Yeah, until like a week before, but that doesn't even matter tbh. Even if he was sole leader he would have lost too much time on stage 4 to be a serious contender. He even had troubles following Knox and Serry that day.

 

[topt]

That 'what if' relies on Almeida not having a bad day. He did

I wonder where was Remco on stage 4 to help the team leader

 

[geisterhome]

Ah, the classic CN forum weak-field argument. It's been too long...

Yea I know. It's just super rare that we have like 3,4 or 5 top GC riders in the shape of their life squaring off against each other for a whole GT. I would say this Giro is just like most of GCs.

 

[Bonimenier]

I wonder where was Remco on stage 4 to help the team leader

Almeida had problems following Serry and Knox. What would've been the added value of letting their other potential GC candidate wait on him as well?

 

[Leinster]

I wonder where was Remco on stage 4 to help the team leader

At the front of the race defending his 2nd place on gc. What’s complicated about that?

 

[Red Rick]

Ah, the classic CN forum weak-field argument. It's been too long...

Simon Yates is the only other GT winner in the top 10, and that Vuelta win is his only GT podium.

 

[Fantastico]

Porte was third last year at the TdF, and I think he had never had similar results before. Does it mean the field was bad? I guess people will now start saying that Pogacar did not deserve his win because he didn't have to ride against Pogacar. Caruso is in the form of his life and this is one of the rare occasions where he can lead the team.

You will never find a GT where all the potential competitors are in good form and don't crash out. On paper this Giro had several people who either won or podium'ed in GTs: Bernal, Yates, Nibali, Carthy, Landa, Bardet. Many others like Martin and Buchmann have also had high finishes in the past. Then add the young promises: Vlasov, Almeida (who showed he deserved his 4th place of last year by riding very well except for stage four), Evenepoel, Sivakov, and Hindley (who was nowhere, but apparently quite ill). Ciccone and Caruso have been pleasant surprises; and there are other solid riders who were supposed to ride for GC, like Bennett.

I call this a stacked field, regardless of inevitable lack of form/luck/crashes.

I agree. The Giro field contains a large number of high-quality riders this year and is the top priority for several of them. If some of them underperform or crash out, this doesn't mean that the field is weak, but that it is hard to be at the top if you're unlucky or not at your absolute best.

Of course, Caruso has no resumé of Top-5 GT results. But if he is better than Buchmann, Carthy or Martin, all of which had Top-4 results in GTs in recent years, is this rather a sign of a bad field or of his quality?

 

[Bonimenier]

Simon Yates is the only other GT winner in the top 10, and that Vuelta win is his only GT podium.

What kind of non-argument is that?

 

[Red Rick]

What kind of non-argument is that?

The argument kind of non-argument, which, if you call it a non-argument, shows its a waste of time to argue any further.

 

[BlueRoads]

Simon Yates is the only other GT winner in the top 10, and that Vuelta win is his only GT podium.

There are quite a few young guys in this race, who might prove themselves in the future. I don't think there are many GT winners of the past who could improve the field. Froome certainly wouldn't at this point, Nibali is there but just not performing, Hart wouldn't improve the field much in my opinion, I also doubt Valverde or Quintana would much at this point.
So... yes, Carapaz, Pogacar, Roglic, Thomas aren't there. There usually are a few misses in the Giro from the best... Can't see how this is a weak field compared to other Giros.
In general... we just have a turn of generations.

 

[staubsauger]

I

Simon Yates is the only other GT winner in the top 10, and that Vuelta win is his only GT podium.

Come on, you could've written nearly the same thing about the 1999 Giro d'Italia contenders after Pantani annihilated the field at Madonna di Campiglio.

22 years later the riders beaten up by the pirate are not just Gotti & Jalabert, but also Heras, Simoni & Savoldelli.

Let's wait where it leads guys as Vlasov, Evenepoel and Cicchone to eventually before calling that verdict.

 

[Red Rick]

There are quite a few young guys in this race, who might prove themselves in the future. I don't think there are many GT winners of the past who could improve the field. Froome certainly wouldn't at this point, Nibali is there but just not performing, Hart wouldn't improve the field much in my opinion, I also doubt Valverde or Quintana would much at this point.
So... yes, Carapaz, Pogacar, Roglic, Thomas aren't there. There usually are a few misses in the Giro from the best... Can't see how this is a weak field compared to other Giros.
In general... we just have a turn of generations.

Obviously it takes a while to settle the question due to younger riders being unknowns, but when it's older, more established riders it's just kinda eeh.. Landa would normally be a great reference IMO, aaand he crashed out. MAL isn't there. Carapaz isn't there. It's not only about the Slovenians.

The top 3 of Tirreno isn't there
The top 10 of Pais Vasco isn't there
Of the top 10 of PN, only Vlasov and Mader are there
Of Catalunya, the # 7, 8 and 9 are there

 

[Red Rick]

I

Come on, you could've written nearly the same thing about the 1999 Giro d'Italia contenders after Pantani annihilated the field at Madonna di Campiglio.

22 years later the riders beaten up by the pirate are not just Gotti & Jalabert, but also Heras, Simoni & Savoldelli.

Let's wait where it leads guys as Vlasov, Evenepoel and Cicchone to eventually before calling that verdict.

Evenepoel, sure but if he turns into a world beater later it just means this Giro doesn't say much about him.

Vlasov and Ciccone are hardly super young future world beaters.

 

[Fantastico]

I

Come on, you could've written nearly the same thing about the 1999 Giro d'Italia contenders after Pantani annihilated the field at Madonna di Campiglio.

22 years later the riders beaten up by the pirate are not just Gotti & Jalabert, but also Heras, Simoni & Savoldelli.

Let's wait where it leads guys as Vlasov, Evenepoel and Cicchone to eventually before calling that verdict.

Or you could've written the same for Vuelta 2019 because Lopez was not as good as expected, Quintana was below his best, old-man Valverde second and greenhorn Pogacar third.
Only Roglic performed as expected, but had never won a GT before and had been shown his limits in the mountains by Landa and Carapaz at the Giro. One and a half years later and Roglic and Pogacar are considered the absolute best GT riders.

 

[Bonimenier]

Or you could've written the same for Vuelta 2019 because Lopez was not as good as expected, Quintana was below his best, old-man Valverde second and greenhorn Pogacar third.
Only Roglic performed as expected, but had never won a GT before and had been shown his limits in the mountains by Landa and Carapaz at the Giro. One and a half years later and Roglic and Pogacar are considered the absolute best GT riders.

Same for the Tour last year. There were only 2 former GT winners in the top 10. One of them gave up his own ambitions and became a domestique for the other one, who's only GT victory was the Vuelta 2019 which based on the argument was weak in itself.

 

[Fantastico]

Obviously it takes a while to settle the question due to younger riders being unknowns, but when it's older, more established riders it's just kinda eeh.. Landa would normally be a great reference IMO, aaand he crashed out. MAL isn't there. Carapaz isn't there. It's not only about the Slovenians.

The top 3 of Tirreno isn't there
The top 10 of Pais Vasco isn't there
Of the top 10 of PN, only Vlasov and Mader are there
Of Catalunya, the # 7, 8 and 9 are there

It's pretty normal that not all GT contenders ride the Giro. But even excluding the young riders and Nibali, who is far from his best, you have Bernal (former TdF-winner), Yates (former Vuelta-winner), Carthy (3rd in Vuelta last year), Martin (4th in Vuelta last year), Buchmann (4th in TdF 2019), Bardet (two times TDF podium) and Landa.

It's not the best Giro field ever, but it's definitely not that bad.

 

[staubsauger]

Evenepoel, sure but if he turns into a world beater later it just means this Giro doesn't say much about him.

Vlasov and Ciccone are hardly super young future world beaters.

Simoni wasn't young even by that era's standards anymore.

Evenepoel might as well just end-up being Savoldelli with the descending as achilles heel instead of strength.

Ciccone actually had his development halted twice by serious illness.

We just don't know yet. While I agree that likely these contenders might not look as strong as the 1999 field in 20 years time, there's too little valid statistic to call them weak either.

In 2003 everybody praised Simoni for beating former Giro d'Italia winner Garzelli and upcoming super-talent Popovych on a tough Parcours. Well, in hindsight that certainly was a hyperbole.

Time will tell.

 

[topcat]

Level is fine, about average for the giro. I've just lost interest cause the race is over. Last year's giro was an abomination. The whole podium will never be seen or heard from again.

 

[Escarabajo]

he was the top favorite to win like everywhere you looked

They were still doubting him!

 

[Escarabajo]

I wonder what is the hematocrit of bernal after 2 months training in colombia? Too easy for him

49.99999999%

 

[topt]

At the front of the race defending his 2nd place on gc. What’s complicated about that?

so, he is here for the GC; good to know

 

[topt]

Almeida had problems following Serry and Knox. What would've been the added value of letting their other potential GC candidate wait on him as well?

well, looking at it back DQS would probably have a podium candidate right now not 2 riders fighting for 15th spot