2021 Giro Route Rumours

[Red Rick]

No, you simply climb the Sampeyre from Sampeyre (Valle Varaita, north side) and descend to Bassura di Stroppo. Then you can decide what to do:

1. Climb Fauniera from Ponte Marmora, northern side....but the road is very narrow and in poor conditions.
2. Keep going down on the false flat (23 km) until Dronero, climb Montemale (possibly La Piatta Soprana), go down to Valgrana, climb the Fauniera from the side of Castelmagno.

With option 1 you start climbing the Fauniera almost as soon as you finish the descent of the Sampeyre. With option 2 you have a (not so short) false flat and Montemale in between Sampeyre and Fauniera.

Okay, I was assuming #1 is would be likely because I thought getting from Ponte Marmora to Pradleves would be too long, but if that road isn't being upgraded then it probably makes sense.

 

[matteof93]

Okay, I was assuming #1 is would be likely because I thought getting from Ponte Marmora to Pradleves would be too long, but if that road isn't being upgraded then it probably makes sense.

From Bassura di Stroppo to Dronero there is a 23 km false flat, gradient in range 0% / -4%. It's not short but not too long, then you also have the possibility to insert the Montemale climb before the Fauniera.
In the end I think that the option #2 is way harder; moreover even if there was no false flat between the Sampeyre and the Fauniera nobody would attack on the Sampeyre knowing what's coming (Fauniera, Madonna del Colletto, another false flat). An interesting aspect is that, if you loose some time on the Sampeyre, then you will loose much more time on the false flat and finally you will reach the Fauniera totally cooked.
This would be something that GC riders would need to take into account, because if you gain even just few seconds on your rivals on the Sampeyre (even just in the descent) and then you have teammates with you for the false flat (and your rivals don't) then you can open up a huge gap.

 

[Forever The Best]

I found that one recently, is it raceable? I'm a pretty big believer in those 20km 2300m+ climbs in general. Even if not Agnello or Fauniera steep they're clearly still a platform for big moves.

I think it should be. I'm assuming we climb till Moutiere ( asphalted ), then we go to the gravel road and continue till Bonette. Since it is uphill it shouldn't be a problem imo.

As you can see, if we climb Bonette via Moutiere, the gravel road is uphill, of about 3.5 km or so, till we reach the junction to the main road to Bonette. from there you can either descend into Jausiers ( in this case the climb would be 22.6 km @ %6.62 avg or so ), or climb all the way to the top of Bonette ( the last 3 km of this, which would make the climb 25.6 km @ %6.47 avg or so ). The average gradients may seem a bit low, but that's because the first 7.5 km of so of Moutiere are not that hard, as seen from the first profile.

 

[Red Rick]

From Bassura di Stroppo to Dronero there is a 23 km false flat, gradient in range 0% / -4%. It's not short but not too long, then you also have the possibility to insert the Montemale climb before the Fauniera.
In the end I think that the option #2 is way harder; moreover even if there was no false flat between the Sampeyre and the Fauniera nobody would attack on the Sampeyre knowing what's coming (Fauniera, Madonna del Colletto, another false flat). An interesting aspect is that, if you loose some time on the Sampeyre, then you will loose much more time on the false flat and finally you will reach the Fauniera totally cooked.
This would be something that GC riders would need to take into account, because if you gain even just few seconds on your rivals on the Sampeyre (even just in the descent) and then you have teammates with you for the false flat (and your rivals don't) then you can open up a huge gap.

I honestly think that attacks on the Sampeyre are pretty unlikely for either case. Can't really think of a stage with 2 legit monster climbs were moves were made on the first one, nor do we see a lot of attacks before a huge climb anywa. But I wouldn't really complain about either route either, but I'd rather see Fauniera from the Pradleves side.

Anyway 24km to Dronero is less than I'd feared.

 

[railxmig]

I don't think that 3k stretch between Moutiere and Bonette is possible on a road bike. I definitely know that Parpaillon is impossible. Also, remind me. Why is Bonette in this thread?

 

[Descender]

it's being reconditioned, I think.

Awesome news.

Another great climb to be frustrated about it being ignored.

 

[OlavEH]

From Bassura di Stroppo to Dronero there is a 23 km false flat, gradient in range 0% / -4%. It's not short but not too long, then you also have the possibility to insert the Montemale climb before the Fauniera.

Fauniera has 3 possible ascents; from Ponte Marmora, Demonte and Valgrana. Which of these three are in best and worst condition? I see that you mention that the northern approach from Ponte Marmora is narrow and in poor condition, but what about the other two?

 

[matteof93]

Fauniera has 3 possible ascents; from Ponte Marmora, Demonte and Valgrana. Which of these three are in best and worst condition? I see that you mention that the northern approach from Ponte Marmora is narrow and in poor condition, but what about the other two?

I haven't been on the Fauniera for a couple of years, however the sides of Valgrana and Demonte are usually in decent condition because they are used every year by the Granfondo Fausto Coppi. The side of Ponte Marmora is in worse condition, however the lower part was resurfaced few years ago. The problem with the side of Ponte Marmora is that there are some places where rain, snow and landslides destroyed the tarmac, therefore there are here and there very short sections of gravel road.

 

[OlavEH]

I see that it has been discussed earlier in this thread, but if there is a climb that deserves more attention by RCS is Monte Grappa. Okay, it has been used three times in the last decade, but one of those times as a MTT and one time it was about halfway on the stage, and only partly relevant. It has a multitude of approaches, and can be used in several ways:

• Ordinary MTF ascending one time
• Double ascent and MTF.
• Downhill finish in Romano d'Ezzolino or Bassano del Grappa. Or double ascent and downhill finish.
• Ascend from south, descend and MTF at Monte Avena

And I was looking at the different approaches at Google street view now. The eastern approach, via Bocca di Forca, has to be one of the most scenic climbs I've ever seen. The road is really narrow, so it's not sure it would be a plausible option, but that route in a Giro stage would be spectacular.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.no

 

[Red Rick]

I see that it has been discussed earlier in this thread, but if there is a climb that deserves more attention by RCS is Monte Grappa. Okay, it has been used three times in the last decade, but one of those times as a MTT and one time it was about halfway on the stage, and only partly relevant. It has a multitude of approaches, and can be used in several ways:

• Ordinary MTF ascending one time
• Double ascent and MTF.
• Downhill finish in Romano d'Ezzolino or Bassano del Grappa. Or double ascent and downhill finish.
• Ascend from south, descend and MTF at Monte Avena

And I was looking at the different approaches at Google street view now. The eastern approach, via Bocca di Forca, has to be one of the most scenic climbs I've ever seen. The road is really narrow, so it's not sure it would be a plausible option, but that route in a Giro stage would be spectacular.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.no

That's also the steepest side right? Road looks good, but I fear descending it would be hard. But yeah I agree Grappa is a true underrated monster climb.

 

[OlavEH]

That's also the steepest side right? Road looks good, but I fear descending it would be hard. But yeah I agree Grappa is a true underrated monster climb.

Yeah, that is on the way from Bocca di Forca to Monte Grappa, using one of these ascents:

https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Forca

You ascend to Bocca di Forca. From there it's just below 10k to the top of Grappa. First a couple of kms of slightly downhill, then mostly false flat and a gentle climb to the top of Grappa. From there you could descend one of the better and wider roads for a downhill finish.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, that is on the way from Bocca di Forca to Monte Grappa, using one of these ascents:

https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Forca

You ascend to Bocca di Forca. From there it's just below 10k to the top of Grappa. First a couple of kms of slightly downhill, then mostly false flat and a gentle climb to the top of Grappa. From there you could descend one of the better and wider roads for a downhill finish.

Cool. I did confuse with the quatre strade side of Grappa, but I suppose it's not too dissimilar.

Side note, does anyone know how steep the the road from Bocca del Creer to Rifugio Altissimo is?

 

[DellaFoppa]

Concerning the "Fausto Coppi" stage (I mean the one with the Fauniera, basically the same route of the Granfondo Fausto Coppi) I have some doubt about the descent from Valmala to Lemma. There is a segment of the descent (few km) with a very narrow road.
For this reason I suppose that they could decide to use the Sampeyre instead of Valmala, because the road descending to Stroppo is a bit wider. I think that Vegni is going to discuss about the Sampeyre with the mayors of the little villages of the Valle Varaita since they were supposed to have the Giro with the Agnello stage this year. The Sampeyre could be a good way to compensate (even if only partially) for the loss of the Agnello in 2020.

The Sampeyre was also in the original route of the Granfondo Fausto Coppi, then they switched to Valmala probably to make the race a bit easier (still 4700 m of elevation gain) and because of poor road surface for the descent. It's been 10 years since the last time I rode the Sampeyre from Stroppo so I am not informed about the condition of the road...however it can't be too bad because it is the only road to reach the Sampeyre from Valle Maira since the amazing road of the "Vallone di Elva" has been closed for years because of landslides.

Which road of the Vallone di Elva do you mean? SP 104?

Also saw some comments on the Fedaia. Has anyone actually been there this year? Is the Sottoguda accessible again? After ten years, Fedaia / Gardecchia finish again would be nice..

 

[matteof93]

Which road of the Vallone di Elva do you mean? SP 104?

Also saw some comments on the Fedaia. Has anyone actually been there this year? Is the Sottoguda accessible again? After ten years, Fedaia / Gardecchia finish again would be nice..

Yes, SP104 (Elva) is closed while SP128 (Stroppo) is accessible as usual. The SP104 was closed several years ago, local politicians say there's not enough money to take care of the road, basically because rocks from higher up in the mountain fall down frequently. It would take a huge amount of money to resurface the road and make the side of the mountain secure. I rode up the Vallone 2 times on my road bike when the road was already closed...cyclists keep using the road even if officially closed.

Fedaia is accessible, Serrai di Sottoguda is not (maybe 2021). I was in the Dolomites just over a month ago and the effects of the "Vaia" storm are still very noticeable.

 

[DellaFoppa]

Yes, SP104 (Elva) is closed while SP128 (Stroppo) is accessible as usual. The SP104 was closed several years ago, local politicians say there's not enough money to take care of the road, basically because rocks from higher up in the mountain fall down frequently. It would take an huge amount of money to resurface the road and make the side of the mountain secure. I rode up the Vallone 2 times on my road bike when the road was already closed...cyclists keep using the road even if officialy closed.

Fedaia is accessible, Serrai di Sottoguda is not (maybe 2021). I was in the Dolomites just over a month ago and the effects of the "Vaia" storm are still very noticeable.

Ok, thanks for the update! I assume this is the concerning road:

La strada del Vallone di Elva è... aperta - Cuneodice.it

Se ufficialmente la carrozzabile rimane chiusa, ufficiosamente viene percorsa da chiunque in quanto i new jersey sono stati rimossi e non ci sono cartelli di divieto

www.cuneodice.it

 

[matteof93]

Ok, thanks for the update! I assume this is the concerning road:

La strada del Vallone di Elva è... aperta - Cuneodice.it

Se ufficialmente la carrozzabile rimane chiusa, ufficiosamente viene percorsa da chiunque in quanto i new jersey sono stati rimossi e non ci sono cartelli di divieto

www.cuneodice.it

Yes, that's the road. As I said, many people keep using the road even if it can be quite dangerous...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yes, SP104 (Elva) is closed while SP128 (Stroppo) is accessible as usual. The SP104 was closed several years ago, local politicians say there's not enough money to take care of the road, basically because rocks from higher up in the mountain fall down frequently. It would take a huge amount of money to resurface the road and make the side of the mountain secure. I rode up the Vallone 2 times on my road bike when the road was already closed...cyclists keep using the road even if officially closed.

Fedaia is accessible, Serrai di Sottoguda is not (maybe 2021). I was in the Dolomites just over a month ago and the effects of the "Vaia" storm are still very noticeable.

Yes, once you get over the Giau or the Valzarego from Cortina it's brutal, in certain areas more than half of the trees were boken in half/uprooted. It's also noticeable around Sappada and on the eastern sidee of the Zoncolan.

 

[Gigs_98]

I see that it has been discussed earlier in this thread, but if there is a climb that deserves more attention by RCS is Monte Grappa. Okay, it has been used three times in the last decade, but one of those times as a MTT and one time it was about halfway on the stage, and only partly relevant. It has a multitude of approaches, and can be used in several ways:

• Ordinary MTF ascending one time
• Double ascent and MTF.
• Downhill finish in Romano d'Ezzolino or Bassano del Grappa. Or double ascent and downhill finish.
• Ascend from south, descend and MTF at Monte Avena

And I was looking at the different approaches at Google street view now. The eastern approach, via Bocca di Forca, has to be one of the most scenic climbs I've ever seen. The road is really narrow, so it's not sure it would be a plausible option, but that route in a Giro stage would be spectacular.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.no

This should be used as a quick reminder that of all those possible Bocca di Forca or Monte Grappa sides there are in 2017 the Giro organizers decided the best one to use would be this:

Arguebly the decision that won Dumoulin the Giro. Still cannot believe it.

 

[Mayomaniac]

This should be used as a quick reminder that of all those possible Bocca di Forca or Monte Grappa sides there are in 2017 the Giro organizers decided the best one to use would be this:

Arguebly the decision that won Dumoulin the Giro. Still cannot believe it.

Just use the secondary road for the first half of the climb and you already have a much harder climb.

Of course the Semonzetto side or every version with Bocca di Forca would be even better.

 

[Red Rick]

This should be used as a quick reminder that of all those possible Bocca di Forca or Monte Grappa sides there are in 2017 the Giro organizers decided the best one to use would be this:

Arguebly the decision that won Dumoulin the Giro. Still cannot believe it.

He got dropped on this one too then Nibali and Quintana went surprised pikachu that random Katusha domestiques didn't win their Giro for them. Also didn't bury Dumoulin the day before after missing a split.

Dumo wouldn't have won with a better Grappa side, but would you really sacrifice the story of shitting beside the rode and winning Giro just for a better Grappa side?

 

[Gigs_98]

He got dropped on this one too then Nibali and Quintana went surprised pikachu that random Katusha domestiques didn't win their Giro for them. Also didn't bury Dumoulin the day before after missing a split.

Dumo wouldn't have won with a better Grappa side, but would you really sacrifice the story of shitting beside the rode and winning Giro just for a better Grappa side?

I would honestly find it hilarious if the Netherlands still hadn't ended their gt drought because of

• Kruijswijk riding into a snow wall
• Dumoulin literally sh*tting himself
• Whatever it was that Froome did on the Finestre

in the Giro for three consecutive seasons. Though I do understand you wouldn't find that quite as amusing.

 

[Red Rick]

I would honestly find it hilarious if the Netherlands still hadn't ended their gt drought because of

• Kruijswijk riding into a snow wall
• Dumoulin literally sh*tting himself
• Whatever it was that Froome did on the Finestre

in the Giro for three consecutive seasons. Though I do understand you wouldn't find that quite as amusing.

I was rooting for Nibali in 2016 lol

 

[Gigs_98]

I was rooting for Nibali in 2016 lol

Fair but, whether you were rooting for the Dutch guys wasn't really my point anyway. It's more that I think the narrative of Dumoulin losing the giro because of his nature break is at least as funny as the one of him winning the giro despite it.

 

[Kyllingen86]

So we could expect up to as much as six mountain stages?

Zoncolan/Montasio
Cortina
Valtellina
Pila
Aosta
Cuneo

Probably a bit too much to expect it but Verbania could also be at least a medium mountain stage if it turns out to be a road race and not an ITT.

What about the Appennines? Any rumors there?

 

[Red Rick]

So we could expect up to as much as six mountain stages?

Zoncolan/Montasio
Cortina
Valtellina
Pila
Aosta
Cuneo

Probably a bit too much to expect it but Verbania could also be at least a medium mountain stage if it turns out to be a road race and not an ITT.

What about the Appennines? Any rumors there?

Appenines are more important because I think the Giro will reliably crank out proper tapponi every year while the Appenines and other southern stages are extremely hit or miss