Giro d'Italia 2022 Giro d'Italia, Stage 20: Belluno – Marmolada 168 km (Saturday, May 28th)

[fbjim]

Yup, UAE strategy is pretty much non-existent when it comes to supporting GC ambitions of anyone other than TP.

Even then, they had severe problem controlling the race with the leaders jersey in the Alps in 2021 which ended up not mattering when Pogacar put everyone to the sword on the Romme.

 

[staubsauger]

Frankly,

I don't want to see this useless Dolomites stage ever again. It's always the same dull climbs over and over again : Pordoi, Sella, etc and it barely works out over and over again.

It delivered in 1998 because of Pantani. But Pantani could even make Flumserberg and Gran Sasso d'Italia decisive climbs. For the last 20 years it has been utterly disappointing most times . With the notable exception of 2011 (thx Contador) & 2016.

The 2002 Dolomites stage was saved by the great escape of Perez Cuapio. 2008 was saved by Sella. 2017 was nothing, just like 2022. GC wise it never really delivered unless you count 4 kilometers action as delivered.

I know these were legendary stages and cols back in the 70s & 90s. But times have changed. With the current gearing these long gradual climbs simply make no difference anymore between the gc contenders. Like back in the day, when Pantani was able to stomp a big gear up the mountain which others couldn't.

Try something else

Giovo + Pennes mtf

Erbe from Longega + Alpe di Siusi mtf from Ponte Gardena

Alpe di Pampeago mtf, but the Reiterjoch South Tyrol side.

It can't be worse than what we saw today.

Maybe put a mtt up Rettenbachferner, Plan di Corones or Monte Grappa the day before.

Use Pentecost which is a holiday in South Tyrol to take apart things and guarantee action.

At least try something different.

You don't need a legendary Dolomites stage, hyped as second queen stage, for some lame 4 kilometers action. They better could've finished at Gardecchia instead for that Vuelta 30 minutes gc battle on steep gradients attempts.

Sorry for the negativity. But it is how it is. The Dolomites are way too beautiful to be wasted like this. They truly don't deserve it. Such a beautiful, pittoresque landscape.

The Dolomites stage is the one stage everyone tends to watch fully, because it's so beautiful to see. Make it worth it.

 

[Netserk]

Frankly,

I don't want to see this useless Dolomites stage ever again. It's always the same dull climbs over and over again : Pordoi, Sella, etc and it barely works out over and over again.

It delivered in 1998 because of Pantani. But Pantani could even make Flumserberg and Gran Sasso d'Italia decisive climbs. For the last 20 years it has been utterly disappointing most times . With the notable exception of 2011 (thx Contador) & 2016.

The 2002 Dolomites stage was saved by the great escape of Perez Cuapio. 2008 was saved by Sella. 2017 was nothing, just like 2022. GC wise it never really delivered unless you count 4 kilometers action as delivered.

I know these were legendary stages and cols back in the 70s & 90s. But times have changed. With the current gearing these long gradual climbs simply make no difference anymore between the gc contenders. Like back in the day, when Pantani was able to stomp a big gear up the mountain which others couldn't.

Try something else

Giovo + Pennes mtf

Erbe from Longega + Alpe di Siusi mtf from Ponte Gardena

Alpe di Pampeago mtf, but the Reiterjoch South Tyrol side.

It can't be worse than what we saw today.

Maybe put a mtt up Rettenbachferner, Plan di Corones or Monte Grappa the day before.

Use Pentecost which is a holiday in South Tyrol to take apart things and guarantee action.

At least try something different.

You don't need a legendary Dolomites stage, hyped as second queen stage, for some lame 4 kilometers action. They better could've finished at Gardecchia instead for that Vuelta 30 minutes gc battle on steep gradients attempts.

Sorry for the negativity. But it is how it is. The Dolomites are way too beautiful to be wasted like this. They truly don't deserve it. Such a beautiful, pittoresque landscape.

The Dolomites stage is the one stage everyone tends to watch fully, because it's so beautiful to see. Make it worth it.

With Giau or Fedaia as the penultimate climb, they always deliver. 2017 was laughably poor design, not poor terrain. Same today.

 

[fbjim]

2021 despite the neutering was fairly dramatic. Or at least that's what I've heard, since I don't think anyone saw that stage.

 

[staubsauger]

With Giau or Fedaia as the penultimate climb, they always deliver. 2017 was laughably poor design, not poor terrain. Same today.

In that case we certainly got robbed an epic storyline with a complete meltdown by Carapaz on Fedaia - Pordoi.

Vegni should have known better. He was there in 2008 in the car behind Sella. Why make the same mistake twice?

Maybe it's about time he retires and Cassani takes over his role. At least Cassani knows the Dolomites very well to the dismay of a mutual Danish pal of us!

 

[Fergoose]

Carapaz didn't look anywhere near peak form from his first attacks at this Giro, but this was something else. Surely he is too experienced to have had a hunger knock? I hope it's not an illness. Perhaps he simply went too deep following Kamna instead of pacing himself?

I'm not going to take anything away from Hindlay and Bora though. I'm not sure they'd have beaten a fit Bardet, Yates or Almeida, but they gave this GT GC lark a crack and got a lucky roll of the dice playing a decent team tactic . Hopefully it inspires other teams to at least recruit a few decent superdomestiques like Bora did. looks at Quickstep

 

[Red Rick]

With Giau or Fedaia as the penultimate climb, they always deliver. 2017 was laughably poor design, not poor terrain. Same today.

True.

That said, I don't really dislike climbs like Pordoi or Gardena if you make sure stages need to get raced there either. I think it's stages without super steep gradients that need a lot of the total altitude gain and length rather than stages like today. Even in 2017 there were attempts to attack Dumoulin on Passo Gardena, but he closed it before the top because the domestiques were going too slow.

 

[Mayomaniac]

In that case we certainly got robbed an epic storyline with a complete meltdown by Carapaz on Fedaia - Pordoi.

Vegni should have known better. He was there in 2008 in the car behind Sella. Why make the same mistake twice?

Maybe it's about time he retires and Cassani takes over his role. At least Cassani knows the Dolomites very well to the dismay of a mutual Danish pal of us!

Is Cassani allowed to enter Denmark nowadays?

True.

That said, I don't really dislike climbs like Pordoi or Gardena if you make sure stages need to get raced there either. I think it's stages without super steep gradients that need a lot of the total altitude gain and length rather than stages like today. Even in 2017 there were attempts to attack Dumoulin on Passo Gardena, but he closed it before the top because the domestiques were going too slow.

Passo san Pellegrino is also totally fine, you have a section of 2.5kms at over 11% and you can have Passo Valles from the western side right before it (4kms at 9% near the top).

Passo Sella from Val Gardena is also underrated.

Put enough other climbs before it and have a downhill finish in Canazei, or in Arabba after the Pordoi and things will happen here.

Passo delle Erbe/Würzjoch has a few really underrated sides, not just the classic tempogrinder from Brixen that would be great in a MTT.

 

[Red Rick]

Is Cassani allowed to enter Denmark nowadays?


Passo san Pellegrino is also totally fine, you have a section of 2.5kms at over 11% and you can have Passo Valles from the western side right before it (4kms at 9% near the top).

Passo Sella from Val Gardena is also underrated.

Put enough other climbs before it and have a downhill finish in Canazei, or in Arabba after the Pordoi and things will happen here.

Passo delle Erbe/Würzjoch has a few really underrated sides, not just the classic tempogrinder from Brixen that would be great in a MTT.

Yeah a lot of climbs can be fine as long as you force riders to make the race there. That's why the Sierra Madrilena stages in the Vuelta can make 6-7% climbs seem so weirdly good. In 2019 the last 2 mountain stages only had 6 and 7% gradients left.

As for the dolomites, not sure if they count but I was looking and never realised what a monster climb Passo Pampeago is from both sides. I used to think it was only really suited for MTF with 1 climb of action.

For some reason I'm really over the steep climbs lately, especially when they're only steep for 20 minutse cause the riders just pace it like a 20 minute climb. This Giro only had Blockhaus as a hard raced climb of over 40 minutes.

Lastly, I wonder how much early climbs in races actually do other than breakaway formation when the peloton climbs San Pellegrino and Pordoi at like 5 W/kg or lower. I guess it adds some fatigue, but I'm not sure more fatigue always makes racing better, and I would rather put climbs where they create action. Like I also think that that sort of fatigue made Nibali and everyone below on GC just sitting ducks for GC in the final week.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah a lot of climbs can be fine as long as you force riders to make the race there. That's why the Sierra Madrilena stages in the Vuelta can make 6-7% climbs seem so weirdly good. In 2019 the last 2 mountain stages only had 6 and 7% gradients left.

As for the dolomites, not sure if they count but I was looking and never realised what a monster climb Passo Pampeago is from both sides. I used to think it was only really suited for MTF with 1 climb of action.

For some reason I'm really over the steep climbs lately, especially when they're only steep for 20 minutse cause the riders just pace it like a 20 minute climb. This Giro only had Blockhaus as a hard raced climb of over 40 minutes.

Lastly, I wonder how much early climbs in races actually do other than breakaway formation when the peloton climbs San Pellegrino and Pordoi at like 5 W/kg or lower. I guess it adds some fatigue, but I'm not sure more fatigue always makes racing better, and I would rather put climbs where they create action. Like I also think that that sort of fatigue made Nibali and everyone below on GC just sitting ducks for GC in the final week.

Yeah, I understend where you're coming from on longer climbs, we need variation. A MTF on Bondone for example would be really cool.
About really steep climbs, it depends. If they are only really steep near the top and used as a MTF I agree. But steep near the top and a downhill finish or and easier climb afterwards is different. It's also different if the really steep part comes right at the start.

And yes, Pampeago is part of the Dolomites and you can do great stuff with it, if you don't just use in as a MTF.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, I understend where you're coming from on longer climbs, we need variation. A MTF on Bondone for example would be really cool.
About really steep climbs, it depends. If they are only really steep near the top and used as a MTF I agree. But steep near the top and a downhill finish or and easier climb afterwards is different. It's also different if the really steep part comes right at the start.

And yes, Pampeago is part of the Dolomites and you can do great stuff with it, if you don't just use in as a MTF.

It's part of why I'm really hyped about the Hazallanas/Sierra Nevada stage in the Vuelta.

 

[CyclistAbi]

When you just start enjoying it. Beating a dead horse. That moment when the horse stands up and beats you. With your own stick.

Priceless.

 

[Netserk]

I usually have my eyes on Lavazè or Pramadiccio instead of Pampeago. Then finish at Carezza/Val di Fassa or Predazzo/Cavalese.

(Manghen) -> Pramadiccio -> Cavalese:

EDIT: You could of course also (as a first?) climb Manghen from the other side for a nice descent finish. They could have done this after Aprica this year: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/39601077

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations to Alessandro Covi for taking the stage win and to Jai Hindley for securing the pink.

This was a Giro edition to be decided in mountains and that is where it got decided. I knew one will crack the others but wasn't 100% sure on who. I suspected it won't be Carapaz this year. Due to his racing style. If he could he would do it much sooner. He is still a champion and i am sure he will bounce back. Landa didn't have it in the end but still a good Giro edition for him. As for Jai Hindley. I guess using the classic approach. Avoid the pink at all cost and make sure you wear it at the finish line. Beautifully executed and Bora was the best in tactics and in regards to team support. And obviously Jai Hindley in great shape. Fully deserved.

 

[Blanco]

Hopefully much of the top end of the peloton is faster than Pantani by now, those guys back then ate crap, trained crap, ignored science and favoured old wives tales like removing the middle of their bread to climb faster Coppi & Anquetil nonsense. They never found out it was all nonsense because they didn't need to find out because they d0ped to find performance anyway.

Yet on Alpe D'Huez no one came even close!
And do you seriously believe there's no doping in today's peloton?!

 

[VeloMaster]

Firstly, finally we get a decent GC battle, but why oh why did Hindly wait until now to do this? Looking how strong he is he could've had the Giro wrapped up by a minutes before coming into today's stage.....

Imagine the complaining here if he had done so 10 stages earlier. I agree, it's been a lacklustre GT. Losing MAL and Bardet early, and then Almeida really hurt us fans.

 

[Blanco]

Evenepoel beat TGH two days ago... just saying.
And Valverde beat Evenepoel in Valencia...

With a flat tyre

 

[Cookster15]

Kamna MVP for this stage. Perfectly executed for Hindley.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

With Giau or Fedaia as the penultimate climb, they always deliver. 2017 was laughably poor design, not poor terrain. Same today.

1000x this.

 

[Scarponi]

I have never heard of a more over rated pull than the one Kamna produced on this stage, its everywhere and anywhere that he won the race for Hindley like he wasnt going to destroy him anyway.

Poels used to pace Froome for 7km up Angrilu but we carrying on about a 800m pull lol

 

[Blanco]

I have never heard of a more over rated pull than the one Kamna produced on this stage, its everywhere and anywhere that he won the race for Hindley like he wasnt going to destroy him anyway.

Poels used to pace Froome for 7km up Angrilu but we carrying on about a 800m pull lol

That overrated pull dropped Carapaz. That is a fact.

 

[Salvarani]

It was a tactical masterclass by Bora and Hindley being strong enough to finish it off.

They didnt have to do any work all day. Bahrain was pulling the peloton for most of the day. Then Ineos took over. Who maybe rode a little bit too hard. Sivakov last turns it looked like Carapaz was talking to him to slow down.

Hindleys attack was different than the others this Giro and a long one to jump up onto to wheel of Kämna, who had been placed perfectly. He continued to keep the pace up. They didnt let Carapaz get a breather from the long attack. You could see how Carapaz was riding on the bike, half a meter behind Hindley, that he was about to drop very soon. I like Carapaz. He is a fighter but he just didnt have the legs.

Well deserved in the end for Hindley and Bora. They have ridden this one very smart and Hindley has been in great form. They are having a great season.

 

[tobydawq]

I have never heard of a more over rated pull than the one Kamna produced on this stage, its everywhere and anywhere that he won the race for Hindley like he wasnt going to destroy him anyway.

Poels used to pace Froome for 7km up Angrilu but we carrying on about a 800m pull lol

How do you know he would drop anyway? So far in the Giro, Hindley, Carapaz and Landa had all stopped their efforts when the others looked like they were able to follow.

Kämna being in front was apparently the only way to get some separation - make Carapaz go into the red zone by following Hindley's attack, and then have a teammate drill it afterwards instead of giving Carapaz a breathing break.

 

[dazaau]

It wasn't even his own attack, but Kämna working hard that blowed Carapaz. I've seen Levi Leipheimer doing more attacks than Hindley. And the American wasn't really well liked as a rider.

This really was Bardet's golden chance to win a GT. Too bad he fell ill. But things like these happen.

Almeida absolutely deserved to win this Giro d'Italia. Even if it would have been lame like 2002 Savoldelli. If not for Covid-19, they really would've needed to show something in order to distance the Portuguese before the final TT.

Hindley now was the best of the rest. Maybe he gets a bit too much negativety based on how disappointing this stage has been. That's unfair. Especially since like I said, reverse cols and it's a very dominant display.

Firstly, Jai attacked, Kamna just joined in for a few hundred metres.

I'd argue the idea that those who got dropped on multiple occasions and were already 45sec down don't "deserve to win" anything, but I think that goes without saying...

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I am not the biggest fan of Hindley but he will deserve to win the Giro after 2020

What does 2020 have to do with this years Giro? He deserves it, of course, because he was the best this year - not because he was the second best two years ago.