2022 National Championships

[CHGJ2000]

If everyone else was starting Italy could probably still have a competitive field without Ganna and Sobrero (probably the nr. 2, but it could be anyone out of him, Affini and Cattano). Affini, Cattaneo, Moscon and Bettiol would still be a decent field.

True, but Italy currently has probably the best TT field of any country on the men's side. Belgium's close though.

 

[RedheadDane]

Meanwhile, Leah became the winning Thomas of the day.
And Zigart won in Slovenia.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

True, but Italy currently has probably the best TT field of any country on the men's side. Belgium's close though.

I think you are overestimating the Italian TT'ers not named Ganna.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Lauro Chaman had the spirits on his side in Brazil.

 

[CHGJ2000]

I think you are overestimating the Italian TT'ers not named Ganna.

Italy is far stronger after their top 2 though?

Belgium have WVA and Remco, then that's really it. Campenaerts is washed up, Lampaert is only competitive in TT's in terrible fields in Belgium and NC's. Sobrero, Affini, Cattaneo, Bettiol and Moscon (when he tries) have been consistently competitive in high level WT TT's in the last 2 years. Can kinda see that lack of results from Belgian riders in TT'ers from the TT ranking from PCS (not perfect ofc), apart from WVA and Remco, Belgium has 1 rider in the top 100. Italy has 4 in the top 20 and 7 in the top 100.

 

[RedheadDane]

Mohoric won the men's race in Slovenia.

 

[Samamba]

Mohoric won the men's race in Slovenia.

So Slovenia's 3 best TTers (Roglic, Pog, Tratnik) weren't riding?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Italy is far stronger after their top 2 though?

Belgium have WVA and Remco, then that's really it. Campenaerts is washed up, Lampaert is only competitive in TT's in terrible fields in Belgium and NC's. Sobrero, Affini, Cattaneo, Bettiol and Moscon (when he tries) have been consistently competitive in high level WT TT's in the last 2 years. Can kinda see that lack of results from Belgian riders in TT'ers from the TT ranking from PCS (not perfect ofc), apart from WVA and Remco, Belgium has 1 rider in the top 100. Italy has 4 in the top 20 and 7 in the top 100.

I guess it would depend on how far you are willing to go. If you want to select 20 TT'ers, that could be a problem. If you want to select 5, that's a completely different matter.
Van Aert, Evenepoel, Lampaert, Van Wilder, Campenaerts are still very much relevant even if Campenaerts has let go of the discipline for the most part. After that you still have some decent TT'ers like Herregodts, Frison, De Gendt and Vermeersch. With some young guys coming soon, like Uijtdebroeks, Segaert...

PS: also no need to brush off Lampaert as some hack who can only perform in weak fields, while at the same time you are proposing Affini, Cattaneo, Bettiol, Moscon and Sobrero, who have combined the same amount of WT ITT wins as Lampaert: 1. And it should be said, that the ITT Lampaert won was vs Asgreen, Dennis and Kung. While Sobrero won his WT ITT vs Arensman and Van der Poel.

 

[RedheadDane]

So Slovenia's 3 best TTers (Roglic, Pog, Tratnik) weren't riding?

Seems like...

Aalerud wasn't quite able to make it a perfect Scandinavian Movistar day. Ane Iversen of Coop-Hitec won.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Always impressed by Bigham, retired from the road and still came 2nd in the tt

 

[Mayomaniac]

Lauro Chaman had the spirits on his side in Brazil.

Does anyone know what kind of condition he has? He has competed at the 2016 Paraolympics, where he won 2 medals, after all?
He's also a big guy, heres a picture of him with Papi Rebellin:

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Does anyone know what kind of condition he has? He has competed at the 2016 Paraolympics, where he won 2 medals, after all?
He's also a big guy, heres a picture of him with Papi Rebellin:

One of his legs is apparently shorter than the other (I guess you can kind of tell from the picture, too).

 

[Devil's Elbow]

PS: also funny that you brush off Lampaert as some hack who can only perform in weak fields, but at the same time you are proposing Affini, Cattaneo, Bettiol, Moscon and Sobrero, who have combined the same amount of WT ITT wins as Lampaert: 1. And it should be said, that the ITT Lampaert won was vs Asgreen, Dennis and Kung. While Sobrero won his WT ITT vs Arensman and Van der Poel.

So your argument is that WT ITT wins are the best indicator of TT ability, but also that not all WT ITT wins are equal, and also that Lampaert's is more important because he beat Asgreen, who also has 0 WT ITTs to his name, and Dennis and Küng, who both lost to the likes of Tom Scully that day. Despite Lampaert's coming three years ago to Sobrero's one month

Seems totally legit and not at all biased.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So your argument is that WT ITT wins are the best indicator of TT ability, but also that not all WT ITT wins are equal, and also that Lampaert's is more valuable because he beat Asgreen, who also has 0 WT ITTs to his name, and Dennis and Küng, who both lost to the likes of Tom Scully that day.

Seems totally legit and not at all biased.

So, you just read what you want to read. Seems totally not biased at all. But let me guess, you saw i was having an argument with someone so you just had to look for something to respond to, not taking the effort to see what i was actually responding to. If you want to bud in, at least take the time to see what is being discussed.

Lampaert is only competitive in TT's in terrible fields in Belgium and NC's

 

[PeterB]

Mohoric won the men's race in Slovenia.

PCS show Tratnik first, Mohoric second..?

https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/nc-slovenia-itt/2022/result

 

[Devil's Elbow]

So, you just read what you want to read. Seems totally not biased at all.

The fact that Lampaert won a TT in Switzerland three years ago doesn't mean @CGHJ2000 is wrong. Here's a more relevant stat for current ITT ability: Lampaert hasn't made the top-10 of a TT outside of Belgium since March 2021. In fact, he hasn't placed higher than seventh in a non-Belgian ITT since that win in Suisse, except for one stage in the Tour of Slovakia in the same year, which undoubtedly qualifies for having a weak field. So it's entirely fair to say Lampaert isn't (present tense) competitive in ITTs outside of "terrible fields in Belgium and NC's".

 

[Mayomaniac]

One of his legs is apparently shorter than the other (I guess you can kind of tell from the picture, too).

Thanks for the info, it's kinda hard to tell from the picture.

 

[RedheadDane]

PCS show Tratnik first, Mohoric second..?

https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/nc-slovenia-itt/2022/result

They didn't when I posted...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The fact that Lampaert won a TT in Switzerland three years ago doesn't mean @CGHJ2000 is wrong. Here's a more relevant stat for current ITT ability: Lampaert hasn't made the top-10 of a TT outside of Belgium since March 2021. In fact, he hasn't placed higher than seventh in a non-Belgian ITT since that win in Suisse, except for one stage in the Tour of Slovakia in the same year, which undoubtedly qualifies for having a weak field. So it's entirely fair to say Lampaert isn't (present tense) competitive in ITTs outside of "terrible fields in Belgium and NC's".

So, could you point me to the international ITT where Moscon did better than a 7th spot the past 3 years? Thank you very much.
Oh, different rules apply? Because that was the other part of is argument. Lampaert doesn't cut it, but those Italian riders, including Moscon, do.

Lampaert is usually on donkey-duty in stage races, that's a big part of the reason why he doesn't go all out in TT's anymore outside of NC's and BBT.

 

[hayneplane]

True, but Italy currently has probably the best TT field of any country on the men's side. Belgium's close though.

If it was a composite top 3 similar to team classification in Grand Tours I would take Belgium top 3 (Wout, Remco, Lampaert) by at least 1 min 30s over Italy top 3 (Ganna, Affini, Sobrero) on a 30-35km course.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

So, could you point me to the international ITT where Moscon did better than a 7th spot the past 3 years? Thank you very much.
Oh, different rules apply? Because that was the other part of is argument. Lampaert doesn't cut it, but those Italian riders, including Moscon, do.

News flash - people don't generally agree with literally everything someone they side with in an argument says. I agree Moscon doesn't belong in the discussion, but of the other people listed, Affini and Cattaneo both have a better trackrecord in the past few years than Lampaert, especially in bigger TTs. Sobrero does too, unless we exclude his performances in the Giro or Tirreno on account of those being in Italy (and I don't think it's fair to treat those in the same way as a Belgium Tour TT). Bettiol is more up for debate, I would argue he has the edge over Lampaert but would agree to disagree on that (also depends on how you factor in his chronic illness). In any case, I absolutely agree that Italy has better depth behind their best two time-trialists, otherwise I wouldn't have waded into this argument...

(Edit: that second part doesn't make sense, I read BBT as BinckBank Tour instead of Baloise Belgium Tour)

 

[Big Doopie]

Italy is far stronger after their top 2 though?

Belgium have WVA and Remco, then that's really it. Campenaerts is washed up, Lampaert is only competitive in TT's in terrible fields in Belgium and NC's. Sobrero, Affini, Cattaneo, Bettiol and Moscon (when he tries) have been consistently competitive in high level WT TT's in the last 2 years. Can kinda see that lack of results from Belgian riders in TT'ers from the TT ranking from PCS (not perfect ofc), apart from WVA and Remco, Belgium has 1 rider in the top 100. Italy has 4 in the top 20 and 7 in the top 100.

while I agree that Italy is likely deeper on the whole, I don’t think u can necessarily put bettiol and Moscon over Lampaert and Campenaerts. In terms of results that’s pushing it I think.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for Slovenian nationals. Today was ITT and Jan Tratnik won the title. Second was Mohorič and third Polanc. As for the ladies. Urška Žigart won the title. Second was Eugenia Bujak and third Urša Pintar.

 

[Samamba]

Craddock can keep his jersey for another year, beats Sheffield by a bit more than 3 seconds. Sheffield was in the hotseat for a very long time just to get beaten by such a small margin.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

while I agree that Italy is likely deeper on the whole, I don’t think u can necessarily put bettiol and Moscon over Lampaert and Campenaerts. In terms of results that’s pushing it I think.

Cattaneo has been more solid than Lampaert and Campenaerts over the last couple of seasons.,