2022 National Championships

Page 11 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
hoping for Van Wilder, Cavagna, Cattaneo and Lampaert to join Remco for Vuelta TTT. Good be sweet, and importantly a lot of them on an apparent similar TT level.

on a side note, the speeds in TTs keep climbing. i really think the UCI needs to do more to control the tech. or they have to be very choosy about the courses (more rolling than pure flat). at higher speeds, the dangers are greater (particularly in TTT). and at higher speeds, time differences are also less.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Sandisfan
Only 9 participants in Polish ITT today, 2 of whom do not even currently compete on paid level (Marcin Białobłocki though was once 9th in WC back in his pro days). I guess it was due to ridiculously long course - 51km :eek:. I don't even bother mentioning who won for this time, because I could say that sun is bright as well.

Had I known it before, I surely would have signed up and later boast that I am among 10 best time trialists in my country.
Even I would make the top10 there even though I'm not a TT specialist.
 
Jan 17, 2022
37
61
180
If it was a composite top 3 similar to team classification in Grand Tours I would take Belgium top 3 (Wout, Remco, Lampaert) by at least 1 min 30s over Italy top 3 (Ganna, Affini, Sobrero) on a 30-35km course.
I'd agree with that, although depends on the course certainly. The argument was more if you are talking about just how strong is the field of top echelon TT'ers in a country, Italy is the strongest (originally was a remark relating to a NC's field of a country while missing their top guys).
 
I'd agree with that, although depends on the course certainly. The argument was more if you are talking about just how strong is the field of top echelon TT'ers in a country, Italy is the strongest (originally was a remark relating to a NC's field of a country while missing their top guys).
Let me just mention as a side note that in the ranking mentioned above there's four danish riders in the top twenty, like Italy, and ten in the top 100, three more than Italy.
 
Jan 17, 2022
37
61
180
Let me just mention as a side note that in the ranking mentioned above there's four danish riders in the top twenty, like Italy, and ten in the top 100, three more than Italy.
Yeah you could argue they're deeper, but unlike Italy and Belgium, don't have a proper top TT'er. Asgreen's great ofc, but nowhere close to the level of Ganna or Wout.
 
True, but Italy currently has probably the best TT field of any country on the men's side. Belgium's close though.
Judging by the Top 100 at Procyclingstats (and this seems like the most objective measurement in this context), Denmark and Netherlands are the strongest ITT nations, both with ten riders in the world's ITT top 100. France, Italy, Spain, UK and the other big nations have less. Belgium is not even close.

I'm not surprised by Denmark's position here. Denmark has always had many great tempo specialists even among the lesser known riders.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Cattaneo has been more solid than Lampaert and Campenaerts over the last couple of seasons.,
And yet he is not superior to Van Wilder, even if he has not had the chance to show himself that often.

News flash - people don't generally agree with literally everything someone they side with in an argument says. I agree Moscon doesn't belong in the discussion, but of the other people listed, Affini and Cattaneo both have a better trackrecord in the past few years than Lampaert, especially in bigger TTs. Sobrero does too, unless we exclude his performances in the Giro or Tirreno on account of those being in Italy (and I don't think it's fair to treat those in the same way as a Belgium Tour TT). Bettiol is more up for debate, I would argue he has the edge over Lampaert but would agree to disagree on that (also depends on how you factor in his chronic illness). In any case, I absolutely agree that Italy has better depth behind their best two time-trialists, otherwise I wouldn't have waded into this argument...

(Edit: that second part doesn't make sense, I read BBT as BinckBank Tour instead of Baloise Belgium Tour)
So you didn't agree with him on that point, yet you chose to get into an argument with me based on a response to the point you didn't agree on with him. Makes sense.

Anyway, you are free to your opinion. I don't agree with it, and there is also very little to support those claims. There is no magical potion that has Lampaert finish close to Van Aert and Evenepoel in Belgium, while in fact he would otherwise be unable to compete in other TT's in other countries. He simply is used as a domestique in most bigger stageraces, and so unlike Cattaneo or Sobrero who often try to chase a top 10 spot in GC, there is no reason for him to go all out, considering his level is not good enough to beat the very top guys and he shouldn't waste energy needlessly. But it certainly would be enough to, jut like Cattaneo, get loads of top 10 spots. I think in a TTT or relay Belgium's top 5 would handily beat Italy's top 5. I don't think it would be close either. As soon as a TT is a bit on the long side, or if there is a tiny molehill in it, forget about Affini.
 
Last edited:
So you didn't agree with him on that point, yet you chose to get into an argument with me based on a response to the point you didn't agree on with him. Makes sense.
Er? I very clearly stated I agreed with the main point, just not with the claim that Moscon is better in TTs than Lampaert.
In any case, I absolutely agree that Italy has better depth behind their best two time-trialists, otherwise I wouldn't have waded into this argument...
and so unlike Cattaneo or Sobrero who often try to chase a top 10 spot in GC, there is no reason for him to go all out
Sobrero has finished in the top-20 of the GC of a professional race exactly once, in a race that didn't have a TT, so that is not the difference.
There is no magical potion that has Lampaert finish close to Van Aert and Evenepoel in Belgium, while in fact he would otherwise be unable to compete in other races in other countries
Lampaert and Van Aert have done exactly one TT together in Belgium in this timeframe, in 2019 (the NC) when Van Aert had only just started to show signs of becoming top-class while Lampaert was having the best season of his career (this was the week after his Suisse win), Van Aert won by 32 seconds on a 38-kilometre course anyway.
As soon as a TT is a bit on the long side, or if there is a tiny molehill in it, forget about Affini.
Affini managed ninth at the Worlds last year, which was over 40k, and third at the final Giro TT, which was over 30k. You could argue that isn't long compared to ten years ago but then I will argue that Lampaert hasn't made the top-10 of a 25k-plus TT since the 2018 Euros except for the NC, so there isn't much to suggest Lampaert is better at TTs that are 'a bit on the long side' - and Affini does his share of domestique work too so that isn't a mitigating factor for Lampaert there.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Sobrero has finished in the top-20 of the GC of a professional race exactly once, in a race that didn't have a TT, so that is not the difference.

Lampaert and Van Aert have done exactly one TT together in Belgium in this timeframe, in 2019 (the NC) when Van Aert had only just started to show signs of becoming top-class while Lampaert was having the best season of his career (this was the week after his Suisse win), Van Aert won by 32 seconds on a 38-kilometre course anyway.

Affini managed ninth at the Worlds last year, which was over 40k, and third at the final Giro TT, which was over 30k. You could argue that isn't long compared to ten years ago but then I will argue that Lampaert hasn't made the top-10 of a 25k-plus TT since the 2018 Euros except for the NC, so there isn't much to suggest Lampaert is better at TTs that are 'a bit on the long side' - and Affini does his share of domestique work too so that isn't a mitigating factor for Lampaert there.
Van Aert had just started showing signs? He had just won the Dauphiné TT. That's not showing signs, that's rubbing your face in it. Showing signs was when he beat Martin in 2016. Jeez, why the hell am i even responding to this nonsense.
No, 40k is not long for WCC TT's and it was as flat as they get. As to the original statement, i think the gap between Italy's nr1 and nr2 is bigger than the gap between Belgium's nr2 and nr3. Ganna, Van Aert and Evenepoel are all world class TTers. and the gap between them and the rest of Belgium/Italy's best is large enough to completely render the discussion whether Lampaert could beat Affini or Cattaneo could beat Van Wilder by 10 seconds, irrelevant, because they would all finish a minute later than Ganna, Van Aert and Evenepoel. And The fact that Belgium has 2, and Italy just 1 worldclass TTer, quite easily trumps any battly for mere seconds between the mortals.

Affini, Italy's number 2, managed 9th... over a minute behind Belgium's number 2. And Italy's number 3, Sobrero, finished 2m 20s behind Evenepoel. Do you understand?


Er? I very clearly stated I agreed with the main point, just not with the claim that Moscon is better in TTs than Lampaert.
And yet, once more i will try to explain, my response was to him dismissing Lampaert, while proposing the likes of Moscon and Bettiol. Yet, instead of telling him Moscon is a non-factor, and even Bettiol is up for debate, you chose to attack my argument, which was a direct reply to his statement dismissing Lampaert and proposing the likes of Moscon/Bettiol to begin with. which you have since acknowledged you agree was not correct. I could try and type it slower if it's still not clear.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, dunno what happened there. Mohoric was definitely the one who showed up when I posted.
And eight seconds isn't even that close...

And in Switzerland, apparently they had just ten riders signed up, and half of them didn't even start...

 
Last edited:
Reactions: Sandisfan

ASK THE COMMUNITY