2023 Danmark Rundt - Tour of Denmark - 15/8-19/8 (2.Pro)

[Valv.Piti]

DCU wants to host the World Championships in... the next one that hasn't already been assigned.

They want to go to Copenhagen again in 2028 and everyone should really hate that... we want Vejle!

 

[Velolover2]

The legendary Rebellin was reborn in Skjelmose.

 

[Samamba]

I hate it when TV Directors don't show top 10 coming over the finish.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Seems like Wærenskjold collapsed on the last lap, not in the top 28.

 

[Samamba]

Seems like Wærenskjold collapsed on the last lap, not in the top 28.

Bike change, so no transponder. Could've been in around 10th place.
We would've known if the TV director showed us yk

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Bike change, so no transponder. Could've been in around 10th place.
We would've known if the TV director showed us yk

Of course..

 

[ciranda]

honoré still sucks, he was around 25th in the world's ranking two years ago, then crashed out of most major races since, then who knows

first year u23 svarre in 8th place, best from the third group with skuijns

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

They want to go to Copenhagen again in 2028 and everyone should really hate that... we want Vejle!

And at least 10 UCI WT one day classics in Vejle surroundings way before a single ditto in Cph.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

They want to go to Copenhagen again in 2028 and everyone should really hate that... we want Vejle!

Luckily 2028 is Abu Dhabi, we‘re saved.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Then it was 2027 that I heard. 2 sprinter WCs in a row, nice one

 

[RedheadDane]

Then it was 2027 that I heard. 2 sprinter WCs in a row, nice one

2027 - the next Super World Championships - is in Haute-Savoie.

 

[Velolover2]

I feel like Wærenskjold could have finished 3rd without the puncture tbh. He looked pretty good on the longer climbs and the first Kiddesvej.

 

[Valv.Piti]

2027 - the next Super World Championships - is in Haute-Savoie.

Oh ffs, then its probably 2029. Lol

Anyyyyyyways... great race today honestly. This aint gonna get better in Denmark. Unless you add 80 km and do 25 laps or on this circuit and call it a World Championship. Thats the wet dream.

 

[RedheadDane]

Oh ffs, then its probably 2029. Lol

Congratulations. I hereby bequeath the title of "Confused by Numbers" onto you.

 

[Velolover2]

Oh ffs, then its probably 2029. Lol

Anyyyyyyways... great race today honestly. This aint gonna get better in Denmark. Unless you add 80 km and do 25 laps or on this circuit and call it a World Championship. Thats the wet dream.

I like the format of doing the same climb before the final circuit.

Now add a climb harder than Ibækvej and put it closer to the finish line (I chose Østengaard). Loop it three times and you have a very hard pre-finale.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I like the format of doing the same climb before the final circuit.

Now add a climb harder than Ibækvej and put it closer to the finish line (I chose Østengaard). Loop it three times and you have a very hard pre-finale.

There's always a tipping point, however.
Too hard route designed pre-finales and final laps most often turns out static situations, the race frankly being over way before the finish line.

So always a balance and I think the current new route change is perfectly designed for a 3 lap finale.

Now WC was brough as an idea. Today's new final circuit design is too hard for endless repetitions in a +260k WC RR. becoming a snoozefest long way before the finish.
So maybe a larger circuit of 15-20k, and then with today's 3 laps as deep gran final would for certain deliver exciting racing

 

[Danskebjerge]

Now, that was a very, very good stage in Vejle. Especially the part from 30 to 10 kilometers to the finish. There was tactics and offensive riding at the same time, and we saw the strongest riders battling it out. Also, the weather was good, and some nice landscapes were shown, including Munkebjerg which has been living in the shadow of Kiddesvej since 2004. The Munkebjerg circuit didn't decide the stage as such, but it added to the suspense and probably to the weakening of the domestiques and others.

The attack by Mads Pedersen was really nice, and it was cool that he was almost caught and yet created a new bigger gap (that reminded me of his win in Harrogate in 2019). The Vingegaard/Roglic maneuvres were enjoyable. Although it's pretty elementary, it's great to see a team take advantage of having two riders in a front group.

The stage was close to being the best Vejle stage ever - only two things were on the minus side: The puncture for Wærenskjold (I doubt that he could have matched Pedersen and Skjelmose, but it would have been better to see him beaten in another way), and the fact that it was clear at the end that it would be a one-two for Trek-Lidl (it was totally fair that the two top 15 riders in the world dominated, but it took something away from the suspense on the final kilometers).

 

[Valv.Piti]

I honestly don't think you can make a 'too hard' of a route in Denmark. The lap they did today is quite perfect IMO for infinite repetitions.

 

[Danskebjerge]

I honestly don't think you can make a 'too hard' of a route in Denmark. The lap they did today is quite perfect IMO for infinite repetitions.

The organizers plan the routes in order to create as much suspense as possible from stage 1 to stage 5. There is not enough focus on that - people just talk about how tough the stages are (or easy).

In a short stage race, it's important that there are opportunities for creating gaps, but at the same time not big gaps that would decide the race prematurely. That's why we see only three rounds on the circuits, and it's also one of the reasons why we typically see flat sections on the final kilometers of the two first stages - it's in order to keep the gaps small.

It normally works - not in the year of Evenepoel though.

 

[Valv.Piti]

The organizers plan the routes in order to create as much suspense as possible from stage 1 to stage 5. There is not enough focus on that - people just talk about how tough the stages are (or easy).

In a short stage race, it's important that there are opportunities for creating gaps, but at the same time not big gaps that would decide the race prematurely. That's why we see only three rounds on the circuits, and it's also one of the reasons why we typically see flat sections on the final kilometers of the two first stages - it's in order to keep the gaps small.

It normally works - not in the year of Evenepoel though.

Oh, I was purely talking about a WC course.

And I think Evenepoel 2021 is probably the most memorable Vejle-stage for me IMO.

 

[search]

honoré still sucks, he was around 25th in the world's ranking two years ago, then crashed out of most major races since, then who knows

as far as I know, he was on the longlist for the Tour, but declared not fit enough yet, and then crashed again in training before Tour de Pologne.

As a result, Marijn van den Berg got to ride that race instead, by the way. So it turned out pretty well for EF at least.

 

[tobydawq]

Congratulations. I hereby bequeath the title of "Confused by Numbers" onto you.

You don't have the authorisation to do that.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I honestly don't think you can make a 'too hard' of a route in Denmark. The lap they did today is quite perfect IMO for infinite repetitions.

Vejle stage recent years with first tiny Kiddes-loop and now this sligthy bigger should have proved you otherwise.

It would be like saying De Ronde is too flat.
In fact first time bike training in the heart of RVV back in the 90ies I was surprised how 'easy' most of the holy Hellingens were, compared to my old training grounds in Jutland.
This hit me, when in my memory I compared Flandern proper to my teens hill training grounds up and down myriads of hills along the deeper part of the valleys formed by Nørreåen, Gudenåen and Lilleåen, up and down with max 5k to next climb, and avg. ascension >1.25% (125 ascension meters pr. 10 km), with tons of smaller but semi-steep hills with avg. maybe just 40-50 meters of ascension, and how suddenly a standard training session of maybe 50-70 km suddenly felt like 200k's in the legs. And then inviting my friends in the hood normally doing impressive avg. speeds at flatter <0.8% avg ascension routes getting suddenly knocked stone cold on just a 110k guided route where they normally did fine with 120-140 sunday rides at speed.

And this was even just west/south-west of Randers property and neither Silkeborg/Ry nor Vejle hill attack terrain with double ascension meters and up to double grades of steepnes.

Yes - a Danish AGR classic is fully doable.
And YES, even in DK a small WC RR loop can be designed at the wrong side of the tipping point, i.e. TOO HARD, making the race itself a snoozefest, either due to early decided race or development into a hesitation race (as latest '21 Imola, too much respect for the decisive climb).

But a WC RR in Vejle area can be made intelligently and with maybe a design like last 40k of todays route. And then before maybe a bigger loop of maybe 2-3 climbs, suitable for break attacks, but not to unload the entire wagon of the peloton for good. Then add the WC +260k distance.

Remember, a WC RR design is not "perfect" because it is designed as hard as possible. It should be designed so a large variety of top riders finds the route temptning. And yet some spices kicking in, but measured. And I seriously believe that this is also relevant in several areas of Jutland.

History is made when it is written, but is rewritten when others tell the same other story an infinite number of times so that it is made a "truth". And then the "truth" becomes that Denmark is generally too flat a country to make a really hard race for the pros. And that Jutland is, after all, exactly the same as flat Amager.

So get on your bike and try your training camp at speed at Amager and then equal along the Jutish stream valleys, up and down, and then ask your legs when they wake up again whether they could feel any difference.

Or maybe just ask Mr. Skjellmose today.
With his origin, he should maybe know a thing or two.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[RedheadDane]

You don't have the authorisation to do that.

Yes. Yes I do! Or, I  did! Now @Valv.Piti has the authorisation to pass it on to someone else.

 

[Velolover2]

If they are serious about making a WT classics in the Vejle area.. using the same route as in stage racing with Kiddesvej as the final hill would be the most uncreative thing ever.

Instead, they should stack up the late early, entire mid and early late part of the race with as many hills as possible and add a flat finish.

Making a route of 3000 metres of vertical gain is possible if the start takes place in Billund, Jelling, Juelsminde, Horsens, Kolding or Vejle itself.