Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia, Stage 1: Fossacesia Marina – Ortona 19.6 km ITT (Saturday, May 6th)

[Didinho]

any idea what kind of bikes EOLO was using today? @pastronef maybe?

Haven't they got Contador's Aurum bikes?

 

[staubsauger]

Wow, incredible result. I was in shock initially and thought Remco could do the unthinkable - hold pink until Rome. Can he be a new Indurain (result, not stature)?

But now I have settled down I can see we still have some scope (hope?) for an exciting Giro. McNulty's performance was really impressive and we still hope Roglic's performance may have been hindered by his injury. Still there are 49km of time trialing left and stage 9 is almost flat so that will again expose any lingering issues from his shoulder surgery. And we can't be certain Roglic is going to beat Remco in the mountains anyway.

I am also surprised how far back was Thymen Arensman was - 32nd @ 1'31". Was expecting better. Still he is more a climber so we will see.

Arensman always has problems to get his motor going at the start of a grand tour. That's why he froze especially on the climb.

 

[staubsauger]

Haven't they got Contador's Aurum bikes?

Aurum has no TT bikes so they have to buy old stock models from other brands.

 

[Ricco']

Haven't they got Contador's Aurum bikes?

I believe that Aurum doesn't make TT bikes yet.

 

[ditton-bayesian]

any idea what kind of bikes EOLO was using today? @pastronef maybe?

Maybe an unbranded BMC?

 

[Netserk]

Bwahaha indeed. Good riddance.

 

[Riek s]

So now that Roglic came in with the same time as Kung, who was a favorite for today, Roglic performance is due to injury?

He has been racing since Tirreno. He had time enough to ride his TT bike and i suppose he has done that. If he hasn't it is a plain recipe for injury and additional strain on the body which he should avoid in the first place. So i don't buy for one second he hasnt trained on his TT bike. (He rode a TT in Tireno and should have known the problem if there was one back then).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Maybe an unbranded BMC?

I don't think it's a BMC Timemachine.

 

[Cookster15]

Bwahaha indeed. Good riddance.

I have nothing against Remco and know he is a huge talent and we will see so much more from him. It is only some Remco fans that really annoy me. They should be more circumspect.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Today the rider with mire TT-credentials (outside of Remco) were pretty meh and a lot of waeker TT guys surprised. Remco's win looked ridicoulous because he had so mich time on Küng, Ganna, Roglic and Thomas who i all expected in the 10 to 25 sec range to him.

On the other hand Almeida, Vine and Vlasov did really ok plus im really surprised by the performances of Hart and Pedersen.

from the lower gc guys I really expected more from Caruso and Kämna. But the time gaps are not that big in fight for places 5 to 10 in the GC.

Whats up with Fortunato? Did he crash or can't he ride a TT bike. That result is bad for a guy who wants to challenge for the Top 10. Bad result from carthy and Pozzovivo as well bud they are over a minute better then Fortunato still.

hard to see who can challenge remco atm. Crashes, sickness, hunger kock, one really bad day in the cold...a lot can happen in three weeks, but a Remco W with a big time gap is I think the likeliest result as Roglic doesn't seems off with his team getting sick left and right and this bad TT performance. But they should give the jersey away. There are 3-4 medium mountain stages you need to control against bigger breaks and why do that when the third week is that brutal.

There are a lot of guys perfectly placed the be the placeholder:

11. Amirail
15.Barta
17. de Bod
20. Leknessund
26. Jungels
27. Würtz Schmidt
29. Mollema
34. Bettiol
39. Konrad
41. Cort
44. taaramäe
45. De Marchi
49. Healy
55. Vanhoucke

That's the decent enough riders with the ideal combination of climbing and breakaway ability to take over the pink jersey and hold it for 5 to 8 days. Doesn't make sense to me to pinch the legs of a Serry or Cattaneo on stage 4 or 6 all day just to keep the jersey. those stages are hard enough that Ballerini and Cerny won't do the trick against a 10 guy breakaway with 3 or 4 guys in it that are listed above.

 

[ditton-bayesian]

I don't think it's a BMC Timemachine.

Yes, looking again the fork in particular doesn't look quite right, and is rim brake so not the current model in any case. So not sure.

 

[search]

Maybe an unbranded BMC?

they talked about it on German ES today, and Eisel said that Basso went for a fairly cheap solution - but he didn't name the brand.

 

[Cookster15]

So now that Roglic came in with the same time as Kung, who was a favorite for today, Roglic performance is due to injury?

He has been racing since Tirreno. He had time enough to ride his TT bike and i suppose he has done that. If he hasn't it is a plain recipe for injury and additional strain on the body which he should avoid in the first place. So i don't buy for one second he hasnt trained on his TT bike. (He rode a TT in Tireno and should have known the problem if there was one back then).

At Tirreno Roglic finished the stage 1 TT in 12th - 10 seconds down on Arensman who finished 32nd @ 1'30" today. Catalunya didn't have a TT. Of course Roglic has had time to ride his TT bike but that doesn't mean he has full power in the TT position.

Tirreno-Adriatico 2023 Stage 1 (ITT) results

Filippo Ganna is the winner of Tirreno-Adriatico 2023 Stage 1 (ITT), before Lennard Kämna and Magnus Sheffield. Filippo Ganna was leader in GC.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Red Rick]

So now that Roglic came in with the same time as Kung, who was a favorite for today, Roglic performance is due to injury?

He has been racing since Tirreno. He had time enough to ride his TT bike and i suppose he has done that. If he hasn't it is a plain recipe for injury and additional strain on the body which he should avoid in the first place. So i don't buy for one second he hasnt trained on his TT bike. (He rode a TT in Tireno and should have known the problem if there was one back then).

Did Kung look in top shape to you?

In Tirreno it was his first race back and he wasn't exactly flying despite winning 3 stages. In Catalunya he was flying on the climbs so it's somehwat logical to assume the form should be there right now. Yet the TT was still worse than guys like Almeida and TGH.

Also the argument isn't that it's a previously unknown issue, it's that it's an issue that's specific to the TT position that is also hard to fix.

 

[Riek s]

At Tirreno Roglic finished the stage 1 TT in 12th - 10 seconds down on Arensman who finished 32nd @ 1'30" today. Catalunya didn't have a TT. Of course Roglic has had time to ride his TT bike but that doesn't mean he has full power in the TT position.

Tirreno-Adriatico 2023 Stage 1 (ITT) results

Filippo Ganna is the winner of Tirreno-Adriatico 2023 Stage 1 (ITT), before Lennard Kämna and Magnus Sheffield. Filippo Ganna was leader in GC.

www.procyclingstats.com

It also doesn't mean he doesn't. He came in 21 seconds behind Ganna here (not 49 like in Tirreno). The biggest outlier here are Remco and Hart. Not Roglic.

@Red Rick Last year he lost 42seconds to Ganna in the ITT in Criterium Dauhpine which was 33km (he was 5th behind Cattaneo).
Its not because he doesn't win or isn't 2nd/3rd he suddenly has a physical problem.

 

[staubsauger]

Today the rider with mire TT-credentials (outside of Remco) were pretty meh and a lot of waeker TT guys surprised. Remco's win looked ridicoulous because he had so mich time on Küng, Ganna, Roglic and Thomas who i all expected in the 10 to 25 sec range to him.

On the other hand Almeida, Vine and Vlasov did really ok plus im really surprised by the performances of Hart and Pedersen.

from the lower gc guys I really expected more from Caruso and Kämna. But the time gaps are not that big in fight for places 5 to 10 in the GC.

Whats up with Fortunato? Did he crash or can't he ride a TT bike. That result is bad for a guy who wants to challenge for the Top 10. Bad result from carthy and Pozzovivo as well bud they are over a minute better then Fortunato still.

hard to see who can challenge remco atm. Crashes, sickness, hunger kock, one really bad day in the cold...a lot can happen in three weeks, but a Remco W with a big time gap is I think the likeliest result as Roglic doesn't seems off with his team getting sick left and right and this bad TT performance. But they should give the jersey away. There are 3-4 medium mountain stages you need to control against bigger breaks and why do that when the third week is that brutal.

There are a lot of guys perfectly placed the be the placeholder:

11. Amirail
15.Barta
17. de Bod
20. Leknessund
26. Jungels
27. Würtz Schmidt
29. Mollema
34. Bettiol
39. Konrad
41. Cort
44. taaramäe
45. De Marchi
49. Healy
55. Vanhoucke

That's the decent enough riders with the ideal combination of climbing and breakaway ability to take over the pink jersey and hold it for 5 to 8 days. Doesn't make sense to me to pinch the legs of a Serry or Cattaneo on stage 4 or 6 all day just to keep the jersey. those stages are hard enough that Ballerini and Cerny won't do the trick against a 10 guy breakaway with 3 or 4 guys in it that are listed above.

Furtonato probably wants to target stage wins and the mountains jersey.

Now Caruso has done such a weak TT, I think Santiago Buitrago might deny his quest for the blue jersey though.

Maybe he's an option to lean the pink jersey as well.

 

[search]

yeah, Fortunato went for the GC last year and finished 15th. Only one place better than in 2021, when he didn't go for GC, but won a stage. So he said he'd prefer to go for that approach again.

 

[Cookster15]

It also doesn't mean he doesn't. He came in 21 seconds behind Ganna here (not 49 like in Tirreno). The biggest outlier here are Remco and Hart. Not Roglic.

@Red Rick Last year he lost 42seconds to Ganna in the ITT in Criterium Dauhpine which was 33km (he was 5th behind Cattaneo).
Its not because he doesn't win or isn't 2nd/3rd he suddenly has a physical problem.

Like I mentioned, you are speculating what effect Roglic's injury and surgery has on his TT. Even Roglic's doctors can't be certain. But Tirreno and Catalunya shows his climbing isn't affected so much. Last year is last year. No doubt Roglic has been working to improve since then. That still doesn't mean there isn't an issue. Take a look at the TT position. It obviously places train on the shoulder, unlike a normal road (climbing) position.

 

[Danskebjerge]

The tendency of races and stages being decided long before the finish line continues.

It really is sad times for pro cycling. (Unless you're a fan of the big 4, of course.)

 

[Red Rick]

It also doesn't mean he doesn't. He came in 21 seconds behind Ganna here (not 49 like in Tirreno). The biggest outlier here are Remco and Hart. Not Roglic.

@Red Rick Last year he lost 42seconds to Ganna in the ITT in Criterium Dauhpine which was 33km (he was 5th behind Cattaneo).
Its not because he doesn't win or isn't 2nd/3rd he suddenly has a physical problem.

42 seconds in 33 km compared to 42 seconds in 17km of flat today.

In comparison to the Vuelta TT, Evenepoels gaps are pretty similar to today if we take Ganna out cause he's just better competition. Almeida, Vine et al all lost far less than you'd expect if Evenepoel was such an outlier in comparison to that ITT.

 

[Riek s]

Like I mentioned, you are speculating what effect Roglic's injury and surgery has on his TT. Even Roglic's doctors can't be certain. But Tirreno and Catalunya shows his climbing isn't affected so much. Last year is last year. No doubt Roglic has been working to improve since then. That still doesn't mean there isn't an issue. Take a look at the TT position. It obviously places train on the shoulder, unlike a normal road (climbing) position.

I believe it is you who are speculating the effect, since i am not the one who brought it up.
All I am saying is that his TT performance today on this parcour isn't an outlier for Roglic before his (last) injury/surgery. He always struggled in ITT that were above 50km/h. The example I gave was last year right before his tour where he lost >1.5s/km to Ganna. Today he lost 1.1s/km. Today they were riding close to 60km/h on the part where roglic lost time. I see an obvious pattern here, the faster the TT, the more he 'struggles.' The last part he looked ok, when the speed went down.


Vine TT position has been dramatically improved compared to that Vuelta. Not sure about Almeida, but I assume they did a lot of work on the TT position in that team. (Mcnulty also looked very good on the bike).
Same for Hart, the new rules give those guy an advantage over the years before. Might be working out for some of them.


But hey i'm ok if you believe he has a physical problem on his TT, i just don't see enough evidence to support that claim.

 

[BR2]

It remains to be seen if the riders who were strong today are overall so strong or if the teams have different strategies towards form during the 3 weeks. Could be Ineos and UAE prioritized fuming at the start.

 

[dazaau]

Wow. Remco utterly destroyed them all. Rog went well, not amazing, not bad. Remco is scary good. I hope it tightens at some point for the sake of our entertainment.

 

[Bonimenier]

42 seconds in 33 km compared to 42 seconds in 17km of flat today.

To Ganna it's 42 seconds in 33km compared to 27 seconds in 17km of flat (or 21 seconds in 19.6 km) today. That seems pretty on par.

 

[Valv.Piti]

The tendency of races and stages being decided long before the finish line continues.

It really is sad times for pro cycling. (Unless you're a fan of the big 4, of course.)

Yeah, you should just stop watching cycling if this is your takeaway after today.

And even if it was decided, which is obviously complete BS, why can't we appreciate generational talents like Evenepoel in his element?