Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

Good thing Pogacar’s weight has never been discussed in relation to Roubaix, or MVDP’s for LBL or Lombardia…

Haven't seen those discussions, and nor have I seen Pogi's weight being used as an excuse when he doesn't win.

 

[Extinction]

His weight is ready for an excuse when he doesn't win.

Firstly, being at the right weight is no gaurantee for success. Secondly, not being at the right weight, in this case too heavy, likely results in failure. Neither is an excuse, but an unavoidable truth.

 

[Jan the Man]

Pog has NEVER done a successful long ITT. He trained last year at the worlds and still was absolutely mauled. Gap ballooned in the final 10km.

Pog is not Pantani at the ITT. He's more akin to Contador. One of the best TTers overall but rather inconsistent

I agree to a point - but in a GT recovery plays a major role. In a pancake flat TT of 50km on stage 20 I would be convinced Pog would be closer to Remco than the exact same TT on stage 5 or 6 etc,

Likewise if stage 20 of the Tour 2024 was a one day TT Remco probably wins.regardless of climbing - the reality is Pog's.recovery would mitigate the size of the gap in all probability.

In.general though I like.you would.prefer GTs to have.longer TTs.

 

[Extinction]

Good thing Pogacar’s weight has never been discussed in relation to Roubaix, or MVDP’s for LBL or Lombardia…

Neither was an issue, so why discuss it, right?

 

[AmRacer]

Firstly, being at the right weight is no gaurantee for success. Secondly, not being at the right weight, in this case too heavy, likely results in failure. Neither is an excuse, but an unavoidable truth.

It's used as an excuse when he doesn't win. Haven't seen that for any other rider.

 

[Extinction]

I agree to a point - but in a GT recovery plays a major role. In a pancake flat TT of 50km on stage 20 I would be convinced Pog would be closer to Remco than the exact same TT on stage 5 or 6 etc,

Likewise if stage 20 of the Tour 2024 was a one day TT Remco probably wins.regardless of climbing - the reality is Pog's.recovery would mitigate the size of the gap in all probability.

In.general though I like.you would.prefer GTs to have.longer TTs.

Let's say Remco is able to keep up with Pogi in the mountains, which entirely remains to be seen, mind you, a long TT of 50 km could be decisive. In any case, with this generation long ITTs should really come back, as in two 50 km ones, not the ridiculously short ones of late.

 

[Jan the Man]

Let's say Remco is able to keep up with Pogi in the mountains, which entirely remains to be seen, mind you, the a long TT of 50 km could be decisive. In any case, with this generation long ITTs should really come back, as in two 50 km ones, not the ridiculously short ones of late.

Of course if he keeps up in the mountains he wins. But that also means he is the strongest rider in the race.

I agree on TTs but I prefer a long flat TT 55km ish and a slightly shorter but punchier hillier TT of 40km ish.

Also.would like a long mountain stage- dislike the habit of these very short mountain stages

 

[houtdffan]

I agree to a point - but in a GT recovery plays a major role. In a pancake flat TT of 50km on stage 20 I would be convinced Pog would be closer to Remco than the exact same TT on stage 5 or 6 etc,

Likewise if stage 20 of the Tour 2024 was a one day TT Remco probably wins.regardless of climbing - the reality is Pog's.recovery would mitigate the size of the gap in all probability.

In.general though I like.you would.prefer GTs to have.longer TTs.

I'd like to get back to a prologue, early long TTT (~75km) and ITT (~65km), followed by the stage 19 long ITT (~60km) where recovery really comes into play

If the best climber does not win, tell that climber to ride his TT bike some more so he does not lose so much time

 

[AmRacer]

I'd like to get back to a prologue, early long TTT (~75km) and ITT (~65km), followed by the stage 19 long ITT (~60km) where recovery really comes into play

If the best climber does not win, tell that climber to ride his TT bike some more so he does not lose so much time

If we add 3 mountain stages +200km with at least 3-4 mountains per stage, and 3 MTF stages.

 

[Cycling111]

Pog has NEVER done a successful long ITT. He trained last year at the worlds and still was absolutely mauled. Gap ballooned in the final 10km.

Pog is not Pantani at the ITT. He's more akin to Contador. One of the best TTers overall but rather inconsistent

Giro d'Italia 2024 Stage 14 (ITT) results

Giro d'Italia 2024 Stage 14 (ITT) from Castiglione delle Stiviere to Desenzano del Garda was won by Filippo Ganna before Tadej PogaÄar and Thymen Arensman. Tadej PogaÄar was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

World Championships ME - ITT 2022 Time Trial results

World Championships ME - ITT 2022 was won by Tobias Foss before Stefan Küng and Remco Evenepoel.

www.procyclingstats.com

Looking at the Giro time trial, do you think that with 20 more kilometers he would lose 5 minutes?


The reality is that Pogacar performs better in time trials during the Tour because it's the only time he puts in the effort to train beforehand.
I also remind you that in PDBF there were quite a few kilometers of flat terrain, and he finished just 1 second behind Dumoulin in the first sector. Pogcarar always performs much better in Tour time trials. He'll never lose 9 minutes. On the other hand, Remco has lost 9 minutes againts him in the mountains.

That's without considering that in 2024, Remco wasn´t Pogacar's rival. If Remco had been a threat, he surely attacked him and would have gained more time.

And since you like to emphasize facts, the reality is that the only GT Remco has finished with Pogacar, he ended at the samen distance as Daniel Felipe Martinez in the Giro.
That's what happens when you try to distort reality based on data taken out of context. Pogacar would lose 9 minutes to Remco in a long ITT in the Tour, and Remco is the same distance behind Pogacar as Daniel Felipe Martinez is. I don't know if it's worth getting into this kind of pointless debate.
If we have to look at some one-day time trials to say that, then we'll have to say that Remco is as far behind Pogacar as Daniel Felipe Martinez; the minutes in the general classification say that.
The irony is that the latter has indeed happened; what you say is based on biased facts because you are not taking into account that Pogacar has always finished closer to him in the Tour's ITT.

And you have to keep in mind that the current mountain stages are 150 kilometers long. Do you know how much Remco would lose on mountain stages like before, with 250km and 4 categorized climbs?

Don't ask for so much from the past, because perhaps it's Remco who isn't suited to those routes with that mountain.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Discussions about discussions about Remco’s weight <<<< discussions about Remco’s weight

 

[hayneplane]

I'd like to get back to a prologue, early long TTT (~75km) and ITT (~65km), followed by the stage 19 long ITT (~60km) where recovery really comes into play

If the best climber does not win, tell that climber to ride his TT bike some more so he does not lose so much time

The idea of a 75km TTT is hideous. Don’t mind the other ideas. A prologue can calm the nerves of the whole peloton and reduce the week 1 crashes by setting some small GC gaps.

I would want the last ITT to precede the final major mountain stage giving a chance for the climbers to retrieve gaps via long range multi mountain raids.

 

[houtdffan]

If we add 3 mountain stages +200km with at least 3-4 mountains per stage, and 3 MTF stages.

Absolutely. And 2 stages should be of the same difficulty of Morzine 1983 / Sestrieres 1992

 

[Oldman]

I think W/kg are typically more interesting in what it says about the strategy and overall conditions, and who tends to do well in what conditions. Roglic for example is still world class when it's an easy day crawling to the base of the final climb. Pogacar has historically gotten his most dominant performances on hard days when everyone else drops off. PdB I think falls a bit inbetween, where fatigue was really affecting the guys below the top 4-5 roughly but the top 3 were still relatively fresh, plus there was a sizeable tailwind there.

Also for W/kg purposes, I think having a flat or false flat downhill section before the final climb in question is a sizeable factor that gets completely ignored.

The last point also can represent the relative protection a well-placed rider with good leadout experiences on a climb. Pogacar generally doesn't fight for space because he recognizes when Jonas, for example; has to initiate an attack. He's good at using the aggression of other teams and rolls onto attackers easily. Makes the counterpunch more sustainable, IMO.

 

[houtdffan]

Giro d'Italia 2024 Stage 14 (ITT) results

Giro d'Italia 2024 Stage 14 (ITT) from Castiglione delle Stiviere to Desenzano del Garda was won by Filippo Ganna before Tadej PogaÄar and Thymen Arensman. Tadej PogaÄar was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

World Championships ME - ITT 2022 Time Trial results

World Championships ME - ITT 2022 was won by Tobias Foss before Stefan Küng and Remco Evenepoel.

www.procyclingstats.com

Looking at the Giro time trial, do you think that with 20 more kilometers he would lose 5 minutes?


The reality is that Pogacar performs better in time trials during the Tour because it's the only time he puts in the effort to train beforehand.
I also remind you that in PDBF there were quite a few kilometers of flat terrain, and he finished just 1 second behind Dumoulin in the first sector. Pogcarar always performs much better in Tour time trials. He'll never lose 9 minutes. On the other hand, Remco has lost 9 minutes againts him in the mountains.

That's without considering that in 2024, Remco wasn´t Pogacar's rival. If Remco had been a threat, he surely attacked him and would have gained more time.

And since you like to emphasize facts, the reality is that the only GT Remco has finished with Pogacar, he ended at the samen distance as Daniel Felipe Martinez in the Giro.
That's what happens when you try to distort reality based on data taken out of context. Pogacar would lose 9 minutes to Remco in a long ITT in the Tour, and Remco is the same distance behind Pogacar as Daniel Felipe Martinez is. I don't know if it's worth getting into this kind of pointless debate.
If we have to look at some one-day time trials to say that, then we'll have to say that Remco is as far behind Pogacar as Daniel Felipe Martinez; the minutes in the general classification say that.
The irony is that the latter has indeed happened; what you say is based on biased facts because you are not taking into account that Pogacar has always finished closer to him in the Tour's ITT.

And you have to keep in mind that the current mountain stages are 150 kilometers long. Do you know how much Remco would lose on mountain stages like before, with 250km and 4 categorized climbs?

Don't ask for so much from the past, because perhaps it's Remco who isn't suited to those routes with that mountain.

1. Remco is a better TTer than Pog. That second ITT that Pog won was also short at 30 km

2. The gaps explode once you get past 40 km, as we've seen at the world championships, the only place where we have long ITTs any more

3. Of course mountain stages should be harder. Nobody has suggested otherwise. If Remco cannot win a GT with 2 long ITTs, he needs to practice his climbing more

 

[Oldman]

Wow lame excuses for Pog not winning I thought those were reserved for Remco

Not an excuse....pretty much telegraphed that to anyone paying attention. How much TT work do you think he put in? Remco had to win that. Pogacar knew Remco had to win it. The RR was the biggest prize all along, wouldn't you agree? Pogi made no excuses; nor do I.

 

[AlpRaid]

As much as i have enjoyed seeing Remco in action, and am looking forward to next week. Reality is that the 'real' season start from Catalunya onwards. I do not want to belittle the races so far. They have been great. But the races that truly matter only start then.

Pretty sure Remco and Red Bull know this. Some ppl hype on social media is getting a bit out of hand.

Hopefully remco and red bull will not be judged by all that

Agreed.

I actually do not think UAE Tour is going to be the result some here thinks. A TT win and a podium maybe. He only goes to altitude after. Remco’s long climbing benefits from altitude training more than the standard GC candidate.

 

[houtdffan]

Agreed.

I actually do not think UAE Tour is going to be the result some here thinks. A TT win and a podium maybe. He only goes to altitude after. Remco’s long climbing benefits from altitude training more than the standard GC candidate.

he think is, nobody is good enough at UAE to take back time they lose in the TT

Not overhyped Del Toro. Not Yates

Vingo could have been

 

[YavorD]

just noticed this good result for Remco on Sunday - seems he had the measure of Almeida on the climbs

Don't think Almeida has any realistic chance against Evenepoel on these climbs.
It would be much more interesting to me if Del Toro was here and Almeida in UAE Tour.
It would also give a much clearer picture on Evenepoel's early season level as well

 

[AlpRaid]

The reality is that Pogacar performs better in time trials during the Tour because it's the only time he puts in the effort to train beforehand.

Rotflmfao

And you know this how?

Tx for giving me huge laughs!

 

[Tonton]

1478 pages later...well, can Remco win ONE TdF? Forget the Merckx stuff. I believe in him more than in Jonas, whose ship was wonderful but it has sailed. Cheering for Remco, class-act and I believe that he hasn't reached his prime. Allez Remco! Only he can slain the dragon.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Just saw a video of a kid chasing Remco for an autograph. Glad Remco just ignored him. That kid showed no respect.

 

[Eagle_Alps]

I'd like to get back to a prologue, early long TTT (~75km) and ITT (~65km), followed by the stage 19 long ITT (~60km) where recovery really comes into play

If the best climber does not win, tell that climber to ride his TT bike some more so he does not lose so much time

OMG Why didn't you tell that to Roman Bardet ten years ago??

https://www.lemonde.fr/cyclisme/article/2017/07/28/cyclisme-apres-avoir-tutoye-les-sommets-romain-bardet-cherche-a-se-reconcilier-avec-le-chrono_5166181_1616656.html

Romain Bardet « J’ai fait le choix de ne pas me concentrer dessus, notamment, car je n’aime pas m’entraîner avec le vélo de contre-la-montre. Je trouve ça ennuyeux et j’en ai payé le prix fort 》
"I made the choice not to concentrate on it, because I don't like to train on the TT bike. I think it's boring and I paid the price "

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Good thing Pogacar’s weight has never been discussed in relation to Roubaix, or MVDP’s for LBL or Lombardia…

According to his own words up to 67 kg in early season classics and 64-65 kg for the Tour. Obviously even with early season weight (66-67 kg) he easily smashes stage-races. As for 67 kg for the cobbles it looks like a reasonable compromise considering he has to peak for the Tour afterwards.

 

[AmRacer]

According to his own words up to 67 kg in early season classics and 64-65 kg for the Tour. Obviously even with early season weight (66-67 kg) he easily smashes stage-races. As for 67 kg for the cobbles it looks like a reasonable compromise considering he has to peak for the Tour afterwards.

But nobody uses his weight as an excuse when he doesn't win.