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Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia, Stage 19: Longarone – Tre Cime di Lavaredo 183 km (Friday, May 26th)

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Brullnux

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Devil's Elbow said:
It's not a binary choice between those two options. There is a lot of space between advertising the race as really boring and what Hatch was doing today. They should aim for the middle ground, IMO.

Now admittedly this race has been so bad that you'd struggle to retain viewers no matter what you do, but that's no reason to completely abandon all sense of realism and honesty.
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Except that isn't really the case. You go to the Guardian comment section, and all the (more casual) commentators there are talking about how much they loved the action on the last climb!

Eurosport and GCN have an editorial slant, Hatch follows it, and a lot of people like it. More serious fans don't, but they don't make up the majority of the viewership that Eurosport is trying to win over in this kind of race (those people belong in the sport section comments of daily newspapers). And in that, it would seem that it succeeds.
 
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Brullnux

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KOM said:
It could concieveably have an offputting effect on new/casual viewers aswell, if for some reason this is the first GT im watching and am bored by it and guys like Hatch trying to upsell this "OH MY WORD WHAT GREAT DAYS OF RACING WEVE HAD THIS GIRO D'ITALIA OH MY WORD OH MY WORD" Id probably be like "aight back to the football then i guess if this is how its gonna be all the time"
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That's not really how it works, though.

If you don't know much about cycling, and watch the final 15km of the stage (because that's what is the decisive part), and you hear Hatch getting ramped up and making it out to be a tense finale, you don't notice that it's actually boring and feel fairly gripped. It's especially when you have the expectations fans do that you have that disappointment, really.

You, as someone who watches it regularly, know how boring this race was. Someone who doesn't know much, maybe considers it similar to athletics when the most important move is at the very end, sees the favourites slowly grinding their way up a beautiful climb with an excited commentator. A commentator who complains puts off casual viewers!
 
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Brullnux

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Netserk said:
But we are not disappointed because of expectations rooted in ancient racing. We are disappointed because this particular edition has been especially horrible, whereas Ronde was fantastic and the Tour last year was the best modern edition.

If commentators conveyed that, I think viewers would be more inclined to give other races a chance.
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You are placing an incredible level of trust that a commentator saying 'this is disappointing, it's normally better' will convince a viewer to watch another race. They probably won't even know that other race is on, unless it's the Tour. It'll just confirm any prejudice about cycling, or turn them off in general. If Hatch ups the ante, even if it's dull in reality, while it may jar for a fan it engages someone who has watched cycling a handful of times.

And crucially, given that UK Eurosport increases their grand tour viewership by about 50% YoY, it works!
 
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HelloDolly

HelloDolly

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Brullnux said:
But what if the GT is the first you're tuning into, and they're telling you it's terrible and all these top riders don't race like they used to. Would you ever tune in again?

You retain more viewers if Hatch is able to convince you cycling is exciting because you watch the last 5km of this stage. I agree, as a fan, but also I'm not sure you should ever advertise your product as boring in the hope that they believe you that next year it'll be better. You lie and say it's fantastic, in the hope they don't know better.
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You get and retain viewers by having intelligent analysis , transparency and honesty . Not by blowing smoke up peoples ass-holes esp when they can see it a mile off


zlev11 said:
this race is like when you're constipated and you sit on the bowl for forever, pushing and dying for relief. then you push out a tiny little pebble and you still feel constipated. tomorrow when Thomas wins will be like pushing too hard and your whole ass-hole comes out.
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I'll brooke no more talk of ass holes. I have had a hard disappointing day waiting 'for the excitement ' of this Giro to begin
 
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memyselfandI

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Escarabajo said:
I can't wait for tomorrow to see Roglic and Thomas having mechanicals with their bikes and Almeida winning this Giro!!
Can't wait for this forum to collapse.
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Haha.. No matter how this shall end it's pretty balanced nicely now, I mean, no matter who wins imho really have earned it. Rogla because loads of bad luck for the years gone by, Almeida for showing he's a real deal too. And G for long lasting after all bad luck and work he did for others and showing why he is what he is.

G especially today when Roglic attacked in last game last uphill, man what power surge Thomas threw right there to close that gap, just crazy after two and half weeks and this all.

Many big guns at home, but really nice finale coming.

And crazy tifosi today!! Luckily no Opi and Omi there. :D:joycat::smilecat:
 
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Cookster15

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Andy schleck said:
Thomas is not pogacar.
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Roglic came 5th that day behind even Richie Porte so it wasn’t just Pogacar. Roglic might win this Giro but right now I don’t think you can predict that so confidently. Thomas is very strong and Roglic’s anaerobic surges at the top of MTFs are not a good indicator of how a MTT will play out at the end of a grand tour, especially when we suspect Roglic is not at his best.

Also recall how just 11 months ago Thomas finished alongside Vingegaard and Pogacar on the Alpe in TdF. Thomas seems to be at a similar level this Giro?
 
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Netserk

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Brullnux said:
You are placing an incredible level of trust that a commentator saying 'this is disappointing, it's normally better' will convince a viewer to watch another race. They probably won't even know that other race is on, unless it's the Tour. It'll just confirm any prejudice about cycling, or turn them off in general. If Hatch ups the ante, even if it's dull in reality, while it may jar for a fan it engages someone who has watched cycling a handful of times.

And crucially, given that UK Eurosport increases their grand tour viewership by about 50% YoY, it works!
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You are right, but I still think that while they shouldn't call it outright disappointing, they should refrain from calling it particularly good when it isn't.
 
Mayomaniac

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The main gc contenders all deserve a lifetime ban for softpedaling a proper Giau+Tre Cime stage.
Seriously what did Jumbo do with his numbers and Roglic's shiny new bike with a mono-chainring and extra training wheels? They let Ineos dictate a pace that was good for Thomas for the whole stage. Up the pace on the Giau and turn this one into a proper war of attrition. Then again, that might not suit Roglic well, but I assume Almeida would have benefitted from that kind of racing more.

Seriously, I'm happy the breakaway won this one and not someone from the main gc guys. Frankly Thomas is probably the least guilty of them all today, at least he and the team executed a plan that suited him really well from start to finish.
 
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saunaking

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Brullnux said:
Except that isn't really the case. You go to the Guardian comment section, and all the (more casual) commentators there are talking about how much they loved the action on the last climb!

Eurosport and GCN have an editorial slant, Hatch follows it, and a lot of people like it. More serious fans don't, but they don't make up the majority of the viewership that Eurosport is trying to win over in this kind of race (those people belong in the sport section comments of daily newspapers). And in that, it would seem that it succeeds.
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THey are all bros. Next year Cav will be on too, just wait.

Hilarious a couple days ago i was watching Horner's video and he made fun of Adam Blythe talking into the camera about nothing after the stage when in the background Cav is almost fighting a guy from project Green. Blythe even looks in their direction, then goes back to 'blah blah blah'

Horner does a whole segment on this lol. Its the sprint stage from a couple days ago
 
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titan31

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Brullnux said:
Except that isn't really the case. You go to the Guardian comment section, and all the (more casual) commentators there are talking about how much they loved the action on the last climb!

Eurosport and GCN have an editorial slant, Hatch follows it, and a lot of people like it. More serious fans don't, but they don't make up the majority of the viewership that Eurosport is trying to win over in this kind of race (those people belong in the sport section comments of daily newspapers). And in that, it would seem that it succeeds.
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I mean do casual fans actually subscribe to GCN? I'd have thought the subscriber base for a cycling only channel would only be people like us who really like watching cycling.

I'd get it for the Tour, but not any other race.
 
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CyclistAbi

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Congratulations to Santiago Buitrago Sánchez for winning the queen stage.

Initiative was left to Ineos and in my opinion they did a good job and set a hard tempo. As for the GC battle. Almeida lost a bit of time again, Thomas was still attacking near the end of the stage, he rally is i great form, Roglič for the first time gained a couple of seconds in direct duel. Looking forward for tomorrow where this Giro edition will get decided.
 
Samu Cuenca

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Danskebjerge said:
Trek's best rider in the GC is more than an hour behind the leader, their second best has lost almost two hours. They can't be happy with that. Having put the team together in order to help Mads Pedersen, can't explain it all.
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They were never targeting the GC after Ciccone had to be pulled from the roster, so it doesn't really matter how much time they've lost. Maybe they should have got another stage win though.

Skujiņš has been great and Kirsch has done well, too, but Mollema has been too far from his best.
 
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Riek s

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Monte Serra said:
Haven't read the whole thread. But surely we can blame Addy Engels and Van Dongen for deciding to not chase any breakaway this Giro? Otherwise Roglič would have at least collected a few more, and possibly decisive, bonus seconds.
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They did pace a single stage for the win and that time he came behind Thomas and Almeida. So i'm assuming they are not so sure about Roglic getting the boni seconds.
 
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Ilmaestro99

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Mayomaniac said:
The main gc contenders all deserve a lifetime ban for softpedaling a proper Giau+Tre Cime stage.
Seriously what did Jumbo do with his numbers and Roglic's shiny new bike with a mono-chainring and extra training wheels? They let Ineos dictate a pace that was good for Thomas for the whole stage. Up the pace on the Giau and turn this one into a proper war of attrition. Then again, that might not suit Roglic well, but I assume Almeida would have benefitted from that kind of racing more.

Seriously, I'm happy the breakaway won this one and not someone from the main gc guys. Frankly Thomas is probably the least guilty of them all today, at least he and the team executed a plan that suited him really well from start to finish.
Click to expand...
Yeah as much as it's boring, and i really hate sky train strangling races, ineos did their job correctly to defend the lead and dictate exactly what was best for their leader.

Roglic and Almida should get permanent blacklisted from il Giro. Only Catalunya tour and Vuelta for them. They didn't bother to test if G Thomas was on a bad day, they didn't dare to win the Giro. The gregario have no bad days left. Its the day to burn them all in pursuit of the victory of the 2023 Giro ditalia. To be remembered as a legend, a winner of this great sport in the greatest theatre of them all, the dolomites.

Jumbo had 6 riders doing nothing in peltoon on the Giau. They could at least have paced to test ineos and get roglic some extra bonus seconds back by catching break riders. But they just sit there and roglic does a purito attack at 2km.

If you don't feel the best on the climbs, try and take time on a descent. Like bardet 2 years ago. Roglic is stronger in descending. But I guess nobody bothers to de recons anymore so this is becoming a lost skill

Roglic seems useless at communicating and leading as well. Almida not much better.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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Mayomaniac said:
The main gc contenders all deserve a lifetime ban for softpedaling a proper Giau+Tre Cime stage.
Seriously what did Jumbo do with his numbers and Roglic's shiny new bike with a mono-chainring and extra training wheels? They let Ineos dictate a pace that was good for Thomas for the whole stage. Up the pace on the Giau and turn this one into a proper war of attrition. Then again, that might not suit Roglic well, but I assume Almeida would have benefitted from that kind of racing more.

Seriously, I'm happy the breakaway won this one and not someone from the main gc guys. Frankly Thomas is probably the least guilty of them all today, at least he and the team executed a plan that suited him really well from start to finish.
Click to expand...
Have you noticed that Jumbo have numbers only until De Plus does as much as fart and then everyone but Kuss is gone? And Kuss got cleaned today.

Jumbo clearly operate on the assumption attrition doesn't favor Roglic. I guess Monte Bondone has something to do with it.
 
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