Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia, Stage 2: Teramo – San Salvo 201 km (Sunday, May 7th)

[Oldermanish]

I'm sure this will make Remco even more popular in the peloton. No one's said it, but that counterpoint would be that Quickstep, Jumbo and Ineos are the teams most responsible for making things more dangerous by fighting for position on every flat stage and adding to the congestion. I understand why they do it, but you can't get involved in the fight and then go pointing fingers.

You're complicating a simple act by suggesting riders from JV and QS were "adding to the congestion". They were on the opposite side of the pack to avoid the sprint chaos. The fact that they escaped was evidence they weren't pressing anyone and had the firepower to maintain a place while the sprinters spread ahead of them on the narrow and dangerous traffic-island zone.
You can't take your hands off the bars to push another rider to create sprint space. If someone moves into you and you're buffering the impact to prevent a crash you may get a pass; if a crash is prevented. If you exacerbate a dangerous situation because you choose not to brake and back out of the space you are just a plain crazy sprinter and will have few friends.
Remco and Primoz had a brief but up front view of the ripple caused by Groves push-off on Ballerini. He's free to speak his mind when someone could have ended his GC for a sprint he had no chance to win.

 

[wirral]

I didn't know where to put this so I will put it here. For the points competition at this year's Giro, there seems to be some differences between how they are actually calculating them and the Giro guide on Inner Ring. (I did try to find the actual rules on the Giro official website but it is infuriatingly byzantine and I couldn't find them.)

It was discussed on Eurosport that only the first of the 2 sprints counts towards the ciclamen jersey. (There is another lesser intermediate sprints competition - but let's forget about that for now.) I am certain this is correct.

The points for this first intermediate seem to be 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1. This is not what is suggested on the Inner Ring which suggests higher totals for sprint stages. Is it 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 for all stages with the only varying of the points being for the points on the line? E.g. Stage 2 was a sprint stage so the points on the line were 50-35-25-18-14-12-10-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1. Stage 3 is an intermediate stage so the points on the line should be 25-18-12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1.

I suspect there is more to it.

 

[Wyndbrook]

I didn't know where to put this so I will put it here. For the points competition at this year's Giro, there seems to be some differences between how they are actually calculating them and the Giro guide on Inner Ring. (I did try to find the actual rules on the Giro official website but it is infuriatingly byzantine and I couldn't find them.)

It was discussed on Eurosport that only the first of the 2 sprints counts towards the ciclamen jersey. (There is another lesser intermediate sprints competition - but let's forget about that for now.) I am certain this is correct.

The points for this first intermediate seem to be 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1. This is not what is suggested on the Inner Ring which suggests higher totals for sprint stages. Is it 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 for all stages with the only varying of the points being for the points on the line? E.g. Stage 2 was a sprint stage so the points on the line were 50-35-25-18-14-12-10-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1. Stage 3 is an intermediate stage so the points on the line should be 25-18-12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1.

I suspect there is more to it.

I'm sure you are right, but at least we do not have to put with the countless competions there used to be . Almost down to the riders dog with the best coffee moustache.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I didn't know where to put this so I will put it here. For the points competition at this year's Giro, there seems to be some differences between how they are actually calculating them and the Giro guide on Inner Ring. (I did try to find the actual rules on the Giro official website but it is infuriatingly byzantine and I couldn't find them.)

It was discussed on Eurosport that only the first of the 2 sprints counts towards the ciclamen jersey. (There is another lesser intermediate sprints competition - but let's forget about that for now.) I am certain this is correct.

The points for this first intermediate seem to be 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1. This is not what is suggested on the Inner Ring which suggests higher totals for sprint stages. Is it 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 for all stages with the only varying of the points being for the points on the line? E.g. Stage 2 was a sprint stage so the points on the line were 50-35-25-18-14-12-10-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1. Stage 3 is an intermediate stage so the points on the line should be 25-18-12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1.

I suspect there is more to it.

The Inner Ring is wrong. The intermediate sprints award the same amount of points on each stage. Perhaps there's been some sort of mix up with the rules for the intermediate sprints competition.

I'm sure you are right, but at least we do not have to put with the countless competions there used to be . Almost down to the riders dog with the best coffee moustache.

There are still plenty of competitions in the Giro, but they don't all have their own jersey.

 

[Davesta]

There were some comments on Inner Ring about the fact that the English translation of the road book was different to the original Italian - I think Inrng used the English version, but the Italian version takes precedent

 

[SafeBet]

There were some comments on Inner Ring about the fact that the English translation of the road book was different to the original Italian - I think Inrng used the English version, but the Italian version takes precedent

Yes, they made a mistake in the English translation. The Italian version is correct.

 

[RedheadDane]

I'm sure you are right, but at least we do not have to put with the countless competions there used to be . Almost down to the riders dog with the best coffee moustache.

The what-now?

 

[search]

Einer Rubio flies a bit under the radar so far. Shape was there at Asturias. Given they send helpers back after his crash, apparently he's Movistar's gc rider? Legit candidate or Mauricio Ardila kind off guy?

yeah, Rubio said he'd give it a try in the beginning but that may change later on. Verona was already working for Gaviria a bit yesterday

 

[staubsauger]

yeah, Rubio said he'd give it a try in the beginning but that may change later on. Verona was already working for Gaviria a bit yesterday

This really could become the 2005 Giro d'Italia reloaded. With Buitrago or Rubio or whoever being Rujano. Tao being Simoni. Remco being Savoldelli.

And Roglic being Damiano Cunego. *SCNR*

 

[Pirazziattacks]

You're complicating a simple act by suggesting riders from JV and QS were "adding to the congestion". They were on the opposite side of the pack to avoid the sprint chaos. The fact that they escaped was evidence they weren't pressing anyone and had the firepower to maintain a place while the sprinters spread ahead of them on the narrow and dangerous traffic-island zone.
You can't take your hands off the bars to push another rider to create sprint space. If someone moves into you and you're buffering the impact to prevent a crash you may get a pass; if a crash is prevented. If you exacerbate a dangerous situation because you choose not to brake and back out of the space you are just a plain crazy sprinter and will have few friends.
Remco and Primoz had a brief but up front view of the ripple caused by Groves push-off on Ballerini. He's free to speak his mind when someone could have ended his GC for a sprint he had no chance to win.

How are strong trains from Ineos, Quickstep and Ineos not adding to the congestion by fighting for position with sprint trains at the front of the peloton? They're not doing anything wrong, but it's bizarre to suggest their presence doesn't complicate things and frustrate teams that are actually trying to win the stage. You can't get involved in the fight for position and then complain when sprinters object to their space being encroached upon, especially when you ride for the team that generally has the most aggressive sprint train in the peloton.

Remco is entitled (in more ways than one) to speak his mind, sure. Is it wise? Probably not, even if telling tales out of school won't get you put in the gutter like it might've back in the day.

 

[Bonimenier]

How are strong trains from Ineos, Quickstep and Ineos not adding to the congestion by fighting for position with sprint trains at the front of the peloton? They're not doing anything wrong, but it's bizarre to suggest their presence doesn't complicate things and frustrate teams that are actually trying to win the stage. You can't get involved in the fight for position and then complain when sprinters object to their space being encroached upon, especially when you ride for the team that generally has the most aggressive sprint train in the peloton.

Remco is entitled (in more ways than one) to speak his mind, sure. Is it wise? Probably not, even if telling tales out of school won't get you put in the gutter like it might've back in the day.

At least SQS only did that till the 3 km mark, and rightly so it turned out. After that they went freewheeling in the back of the group. There were other GC contenders and GC teams still bumping elbows in the last straight. I really don't get why. It's not only more dangerous for sprinters and their teams, but also for themselves.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I'm sure you are right, but at least we do not have to put with the countless competions there used to be . Almost down to the riders dog with the best coffee moustache.

Matt Stephens on comms yesterday told a rather amusing anecdote about one TT in the 'Milk Race in the old days' where he finished 50th out of 99 riders in the TT, or something like that, and the next day was called to the front at the beginning of the stage as the winner of the 'Most average rider', haha. Apparently produced a fair bit of laughter in the peloton.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1655236863592890370

 

[Netserk]

How are strong trains from Ineos, Quickstep and Ineos not adding to the congestion by fighting for position with sprint trains at the front of the peloton? They're not doing anything wrong, but it's bizarre to suggest their presence doesn't complicate things and frustrate teams that are actually trying to win the stage. You can't get involved in the fight for position and then complain when sprinters object to their space being encroached upon, especially when you ride for the team that generally has the most aggressive sprint train in the peloton.

Remco is entitled (in more ways than one) to speak his mind, sure. Is it wise? Probably not, even if telling tales out of school won't get you put in the gutter like it might've back in the day.

One thing is what the causal factors are, another what is worthy of blame and various de facto sanctions.

A typical analogy is that of assaults. You can do much to avoid being assaulted, but the blame is still usually solely on the perpetrator even when the victim could have avoided the incident.

Incidents will always happen, and it's useful to operate with a threshold to distinguish between racing accidents and (blameworthy) reckless behaviour.

I don't think the GC teams did anything blameworthy. I think taking your hands off the bars to push another rider, which in turn results in a crash, is clearly blameworthy. It's completely legitimate and therefore always tolerable to fight for position and to protect your position - as long as it's done with legitimate means. Lean in to the other rider, use your elbows, but don't shove another rider like that.

 

[Oldermanish]

How are strong trains from Ineos, Quickstep and Ineos not adding to the congestion by fighting for position with sprint trains at the front of the peloton? They're not doing anything wrong, but it's bizarre to suggest their presence doesn't complicate things and frustrate teams that are actually trying to win the stage. You can't get involved in the fight for position and then complain when sprinters object to their space being encroached upon, especially when you ride for the team that generally has the most aggressive sprint train in the peloton.

Remco is entitled (in more ways than one) to speak his mind, sure. Is it wise? Probably not, even if telling tales out of school won't get you put in the gutter like it might've back in the day.

So you have a general gripe about GC guys, in a GC event setting tempo and staying away from the sketchy parts of the pack? OK...make that complaint when it's applicable. By the way; Wout won the last stage of the Tour in Paris. Primoz has won several stages against "fast" guys. They and other GC guys qualify as a sprinters.

Watch the video: DQS and JV were on the right side and Remco and Primoz were in the same part of the pack after their squads set the tempo, benefitting attentive sprinters. The offensive move we are discussing was on the other side of the field in the second tier of sprinters fighting for someone else's sprint train next to a traffic island. Not the same thing as GC teams clogging up the road as they quit tempo.