Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia: Stage-by-Stage Analysis

[Rackham]

Well, certainly more than one rider will finish the race but at this rate maybe only two or three of the ones that were considered GC contenders will reach Rome and sadly today was another step in that direction.

We need something to change in Grand Tours to avoid them turning into races where the decisive stages are only ridden by half of the GC contenders and 30-40% of riders abandon, but that is a discussion for another topic.

Did you see the final few km's? For reasons I can't even begin to understand, as the peloton was bombing towards the 3km point a couple of Green Project riders (I believe it was them) moved up on the inside of what was left of the Ineos team at that point & started squeezing the pink jersey. Unreal.

I also saw FDJ also get on the front as well. Point being: there's a problem within the peloton IMO, certainly with regards to sprint teams mowing down everyone during transition stages & small teams (or just teams with no business being at the front in the final few km's because they're neither going for GC nor the sprint) sticking their noses where they should never be in a million years. Even the Thomas/Rog/TGH crash happened because the peloton speeded up on a descent because one of the sprinters was dropped (Groves I think).

Jens Voigt was saying stuff like "we need shorter stages" but I disagree, i.e. shorter stages will simply increase nervousness. I go in the opposite direction, i.e. I believe we need harder stages earlier in a GT with a stricter time cut-off in order to eliminate as many sprinters & also-rans as possible - leaving nothing but the best.

You have to be cruel to be kind, i.e. because the GC leaders get very little respect in GT's anymore. That for me is the biggest difference between now & previous eras, along with early routes which aren't selective enough.

 

[BR2]

I believe this Giro will see the ultimate beauty at the end: Pinot will win this race. And we will realize it was all fate and had to be.

Besides, I am counting: Lennard is 6th now.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Did you see the final few km's? For reasons I can't even begin to understand, as the peloton was bombing towards the 3km point a couple of Green Project riders (I believe it was them) moved up on the inside of what was left of the Ineos team at that point & started squeezing the pink jersey. Unreal.

I also saw FDJ also get on the front as well. Point being: there's a problem within the peloton IMO, certainly with regards to sprint teams mowing down everyone during transition stages & small teams (or just teams with no business being at the front in the final few km's because they're neither going for GC nor the sprint) sticking their noses where they should never be in a million years. Even the Thomas/Rog/TGH crash happened because the peloton speeded up on a descent because one of the sprinters was dropped (Groves I think).

Yeah but this is how it was done 150 years back. Hence nobody should change that. It makes total sense to crash out GC riders at the end of sprint stages. It's good for this sport and the race as a whole.

 

[Lequack]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QuMa0fCTWg

 

[BR2]

Yeah but this is how it was done 150 years back. Hence nobody should change that. It makes total sense to crash out GC riders at the end of sprint stages. It's good for this sport and the race as a whole.

GC riders are supposed to be first based on all the accumulated time. If they don't want to risk the crash, stay out of the sprint and lose a few seconds. If you aren't willing to do that - well. It's not about history. It's about what a stage race wins means. That is, not just being the best climber and time trialer, but racing on all territories, every stage, till the end, through all weather, and then add the time. If you aren't in for that, don't become a GC rider.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@BR2

It's not that. It's that cycling changed but the format of such stages hasn't adapted yet to the changes. Over time this will become more and more obvious. Due to ever more ruined GTs. Eventually even the die hard nostalgic will change their mind. Admitting there is a problem is usually the first and hard step. We love cycling enough to pull through.

 

[SafeBet]

How many GC riders have crashed out of this Giro in sprint stages?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

How many GC riders have crashed out of this Giro in sprint stages?

1, Tao? I might be forgetting some and Sivakov crashed out of the GC battle at least.

 

[SafeBet]

1, Tao? I might be forgetting some and Sivakov crashed out of the GC battle at least.

Ok let me rephrase it then. How many GC riders have crashed out in the last kms of a sprint stage? Because that's the issue being discussed here.

Giro 2023 has suffered from riders abandoning due to sickness and crashing in normal race situations (like a wet descent). GC hasn't been affected by sprints.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Can we already rate this Giro? I will give a solid zero.

 

[Ricco']

Can we already rate this Giro? I will give a solid zero.

Since this post was before today's stage, have you improved the rating to a -2?

 

[BR2]

Reading arrogant takes like from Trentin on Twitter I wonder why I should support these guys.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Reading arrogant takes like from Trentin on Twitter I wonder why I should support these guys.

A lot of Ameturs in the UK (like me) literally pay to race, sometimes in pretty awfull weather. As much I respect pro cyclists, they sometimes forget that they are living the dream of so many people.

 

[KZD]

This Giro really has been the antithesis of the first part of the season.

No breakaways were succesful in World Tour races vs Plenty of breakaways are succesfull

Dominant displays in stage races by Pogačar, Vingegård and to a lesser extent Roglič and Remco (races decided from afar) vs Top3 very close among each other but the riders are afraid to attack even in mountain stsges.

No legendary battles like we saw in the cobbled classics or MSR between Pogačar, Van der Poel and Van Aert either.

Ironically, I think the Giro organisers will get what they wished for, the race will be decided in the final mountain TT but for the average fan this has been a dreadful Giro.

 

[KOM]

Since this post was before today's stage, have you improved the rating to a -2?

-2 seems to be the appropiate rating for now, this giro has its work cut out for it to get back into the positive digits just absolutely dreadful so far.

 

[CyclistAbi]

How many GC riders have crashed out of this Giro in sprint stages?

That's easy as you don't have to look that far. Remco. Near miss in if i remember correctly stage 2 and going down hard in stage 5. I feel that this alone proves the point you were trying to argue against.

 

[SafeBet]

In all honesty I thought this was a great route, but it's not working out and this leaves me a bit worried about the state of the Giro going forward. Last year was the worst edition in recent memory for me and this doesn't look better at the moment, despite the two routes being structurally different.

I've been thinking about solutions to make the Giro entertaining again. It used to be the most thrilling GT of the year, now we're only waiting for bad things to happen. Some factors are beyond the organizer's (and any other stakeholder's) control, like the weather and COVID, but there must be something to improve the Giro as a product.

A few posters yesterday claimed that if RCS doesn't make compromises, over time riders will stop riding the Giro and the race will die. I understand that point, but I wonder whether what the Giro offered yesterday can attract new fans and sponsors, or even retain the current fans and sponsors. Because whatever your stance is, you must agree yesterday was a hot mess and not a good commercial for the Giro and cycling in general. So where do we go from here? How can we make the Giro better? It's not just an Italian affair, it's the history of our sport.

 

[Netserk]

Partly, it's that the route favours the waiting game with the stage order. But I think this year is more about bad luck. Weather and illness, also who abandoned when, and how by happenstance the GC situation is now fairly locked.

While we haven't had an unaltered route since 2018, both the 2020 and 2021 editions were good.

Maybe the Giro needs two years with a more evened out route, less spectacular (at least on the surface, so drop all gimmicks) and less risky. With the current attitudes, it's better to avoid conflicts with the peloton. It will be easier to stand your ground after a few years of no need to. Then it can be turned back up gradually.

 

[Netserk]

More concretely, I'd like a Vesuvius week 1 MTF. Finestre is always a sure winner (but I'd like Sestriere twice afterwards, descending the Sauze di Cesana side). We haven't seen the classic Mortirolo-Aprica combo since 2015, even if 2019 was equivalent. And please, don't have the ITTs after GC stages.

 

[DNP-Old]

It's a bad course as it is heavily reliant on hypotheticals, probabilities and should-be's. Vegni probably speculated that Remco, whose participation he worked so hard for, would have a solid lead of at least two minutes at this point of the race. Said lead would force others to try at any given opportunity. With his illness, the gaps of the remaining contenders are of little significance, held by riders who at no point in their careers won the price of most adventurous. Thus resulting in one of the worst races in recent history.

 

[BR2]

In all honesty I thought this was a great route, but it's not working out and this leaves me a bit worried about the state of the Giro going forward. Last year was the worst edition in recent memory for me and this doesn't look better at the moment, despite the two routes being structurally different.

I've been thinking about solutions to make the Giro entertaining again. It used to be the most thrilling GT of the year, now we're only waiting for bad things to happen. Some factors are beyond the organizer's (and any other stakeholder's) control, like the weather and COVID, but there must be something to improve the Giro as a product.

A few posters yesterday claimed that if RCS doesn't make compromises, over time riders will stop riding the Giro and the race will die. I understand that point, but I wonder whether what the Giro offered yesterday can attract new fans and sponsors, or even retain the current fans and sponsors. Because whatever your stance is, you must agree yesterday was a hot mess and not a good commercial for the Giro and cycling in general. So where do we go from here? How can we make the Giro better? It's not just an Italian affair, it's the history of our sport.

I wouldn't put this on the Giro that much. And I don't think people will stoping racing the Giro and the race will die.
Not everybody can go to the Tour. There are too many riders for just one race, especially since all the people who only watch the Tour are all about the winner, they don't care who get 6th, 6th in the Tour is good for sponsors, but for most casual viewers that will be a loser.

It's clear that the riders take the fight to the Giro the most at the moment, because the organizers don't have the power of ASO. But eventually they will go for other races, too. So, in my eyes, this isn't hurting specifically the Giro as much as cycling in general. The same goes for the routes, which are just more and more backloaded and trying to keep the gaps as close as possible overall. Organizers desperately need to rethink this approach.

There are lots of different factors at play here I could now talk about, but my basic point is that it's cycling and especially GTs having problems more than specifically the Giro.

What the Giro can do, apart from the things that all GTs can do, is simply to organize things better. More open, not aggressive, but clear communication before the race starts.
Prepare, communicate, deal with things as soon as they come up.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Or maybe cycling fans just don't get it all that much in general. That is expecting something from a GT race that it isn't. The idea we are not seeing an ongoing battle in this race is simply not true.

 

[ashhutch1997]

In all honesty I thought this was a great route, but it's not working out and this leaves me a bit worried about the state of the Giro going forward. Last year was the worst edition in recent memory for me and this doesn't look better at the moment, despite the two routes being structurally different.

I've been thinking about solutions to make the Giro entertaining again. It used to be the most thrilling GT of the year, now we're only waiting for bad things to happen. Some factors are beyond the organizer's (and any other stakeholder's) control, like the weather and COVID, but there must be something to improve the Giro as a product.

A few posters yesterday claimed that if RCS doesn't make compromises, over time riders will stop riding the Giro and the race will die. I understand that point, but I wonder whether what the Giro offered yesterday can attract new fans and sponsors, or even retain the current fans and sponsors. Because whatever your stance is, you must agree yesterday was a hot mess and not a good commercial for the Giro and cycling in general. So where do we go from here? How can we make the Giro better? It's not just an Italian affair, it's the history of our sport.

Like you, I was pleasantly suprised with the route and had pretty high hopes of a good race.
I think it's normal for races to go through these phases. The Tour from 2012 - 18 went through a really bad phase (although 2013 was an entertaining race despite Froome's dominance) despite the ASO trying to encourage attacks with the route. It was also these years where the Giro was going through a golden phase, with consistent unpredictable racing that let to some great editions, particularly 2015,16 and 18. It's kind of reversed now with the the Tour producing entertaining editions, particularly from 2019 - 22, with 2022 being arguably one the greatest editions of all time IMO.
What also doesn't help is that there are no top Italian GC contentenders, that's a big issue, combined with the awful weather Italy has experienced, illnesses and crashes have resulted in a damp squib of a race.

 

[Red Rick]

In all honesty I thought this was a great route, but it's not working out and this leaves me a bit worried about the state of the Giro going forward. Last year was the worst edition in recent memory for me and this doesn't look better at the moment, despite the two routes being structurally different.

I've been thinking about solutions to make the Giro entertaining again. It used to be the most thrilling GT of the year, now we're only waiting for bad things to happen. Some factors are beyond the organizer's (and any other stakeholder's) control, like the weather and COVID, but there must be something to improve the Giro as a product.

A few posters yesterday claimed that if RCS doesn't make compromises, over time riders will stop riding the Giro and the race will die. I understand that point, but I wonder whether what the Giro offered yesterday can attract new fans and sponsors, or even retain the current fans and sponsors. Because whatever your stance is, you must agree yesterday was a hot mess and not a good commercial for the Giro and cycling in general. So where do we go from here? How can we make the Giro better? It's not just an Italian affair, it's the history of our sport.

1. You make the first 2 weeks better. Most of the MTFs should be in the first 2 weeks, especially the steeper ones if the stages are moderate difficulty. None of htat *** with Campo Imperatore that pretends to be a big mountain stage but isn't. Also no need for a Blockhaus stage to have 5000m altitude meters either, although I would love to see Majaletta and then descent into a finsih on Muro di Guardiagrele.

2. Not that much to do about the queen stages, but maybe try to limit the super high altitude climbs, especially further up north in like Switserland, OR if you do them, try to have viable alternatives.

3. Maybe make some of your most decisive stages lower altitude. Monte Bondone is a brutal stage, but it's design is really meh simply because it's all about that MTF.

Having 2 ITTs and a little murito stage in teh first 9 days is pretty good, but Lago Laceno and Campo Imperatore are just *** climbs. The lul between stage 10-12 happens every Giro and I would really wish they'd do anything even like unipuerto Monte Beigua would be fine by me. And while I don't like to blame the Monte Lussari ITT as many others do, it can have this effect if gaps are this small


That said, the reality is also that the #1 and #2 in GC are have the strongest teams and neither team have a big tendency lean towards defensive racing, and that also just deters everyone else. I don't think it helps Evenepoel crashed out, it doesn't help that TGH crashed out. It also doesn't help that Roglic has crashed twice and may simply be waiting to feel better. Geraint Thomas has only made one serious GC attack in his entire career.

I also don't think the stages in the 3rd week are too hard. The problem is they're the only stages that hard apart from the original design yesterday. And if you're gonna have a big mountain stage with a 22km valley before the final climb, it should not be the first big mountain stage.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Partly, it's that the route favours the waiting game with the stage order. But I think this year is more about bad luck. Weather and illness, also who abandoned when, and how by happenstance the GC situation is now fairly locked.

While we haven't had an unaltered route since 2018, both the 2020 and 2021 editions were good.

Maybe the Giro needs two years with a more evened out route, less spectacular (at least on the surface, so drop all gimmicks) and less risky. With the current attitudes, it's better to avoid conflicts with the peloton. It will be easier to stand your ground after a few years of no need to. Then it can be turned back up gradually.

Something like the 2015 route is needed. After the worst edition ever in 2012, to all of the issues with snow and nuetrlised decents in 2013-14. The 2015 route was balenced with low altitude and no gimmicks. Then they went back to high altitude in 2016.