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Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia: Stage-by-Stage Analysis

Page 16 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
I see the route is getting criticised a lot now, so I checked how it was perceived and voted after being presented a few months ago.
On the annual "Rate the Giro route" thread the 2023 edition received an average score of 7,42 (93 votes).

For comparison these were the average scores of the previous editions:
2022: 5,06 (67 votes)
2021: couldn't find the thread
2020: 7,84 (49 votes)
2019: 7,22 (60 votes)
2018: 5,75 (44 votes)
2017: 6,56 (71 votes)
2016: 6,79 (89 votes)

So the 2023 route was perceived as the second best Giro route since 2016. And yet the race has completely failed to deliver any GC relevant action.
Is the CN forum fanbase completely blind to how cycling is changing?
 
I see the route is getting criticised a lot now, so I checked how it was perceived and voted after being presented a few months ago.
On the annual "Rate the Giro route" thread the 2023 edition received an average score of 7,42 (93 votes).

For comparison these were the average scores of the previous editions:
2022: 5,06 (67 votes)
2021: couldn't find the thread
2020: 7,84 (49 votes)
2019: 7,22 (60 votes)
2018: 5,75 (44 votes)
2017: 6,56 (71 votes)
2016: 6,79 (89 votes)

So the 2023 route was perceived as the second best Giro route since 2016. And yet the race has completely failed to deliver any GC relevant action.
Is the CN forum fanbase completely blind to how cycling is changing?
I think the main problem in this year´s giro is the lack of climber-type riders, who would have lost time in the two ITT and would have to get back time in the mountains. Surely we would have seen a different race with Evenepoel still in it, but I still think that this is one important fact. This year every climber-type rider had gone to the tour..
 
Last year was also abysmal but it didn't have the hype of the Remco-Roglic duo. Carapaz-Hindley looked like a second tier GC duel. Overall Giro has been disappointing since the pandemic for me, esp the GC battles.

As for delaying Giro, ASO ain't gonna be happy because that screws Dauphine ratings. ASO > RCS always. Best case would be switching with Vuelta and honestly Vuelta would also benefit from getting more spotlight and escaping the afterthought syndrome.
 
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A 3 week race, and it seems as though the contenders are waiting for the last few days to make a difference. Which in my mind is the result of backloading the race, again.....
However, the awful weather hasn't helped, and neither has Covid, and other sickness going around - and the retirements of Remco & Tao.

Stop backloading the race, and design possible decisive stages far earlier; the terrain is there.
 
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I see the route is getting criticised a lot now, so I checked how it was perceived and voted after being presented a few months ago.
On the annual "Rate the Giro route" thread the 2023 edition received an average score of 7,42 (93 votes).

For comparison these were the average scores of the previous editions:
2022: 5,06 (67 votes)
2021: couldn't find the thread
2020: 7,84 (49 votes)
2019: 7,22 (60 votes)
2018: 5,75 (44 votes)
2017: 6,56 (71 votes)
2016: 6,79 (89 votes)

So the 2023 route was perceived as the second best Giro route since 2016. And yet the race has completely failed to deliver any GC relevant action.
Is the CN forum fanbase completely blind to how cycling is changing?
I don't really think it's a general misunderstanding of what makes a route good. The negative aspects of this route, that are now pointed out, are definitely things there is a consensus about (e.g. nobody is saying backloading a route is great). It's just that the reasons the route was so well received have not lived up to expectation for one reason or another. The TT's turned out to be a non factor (unlucky for the organizers), of the 4 hyped mountain stages 3 just haven't taken place yet and the only one taking place was completely nerfed. Worth mentioning the one point about race design where the CN forum fanbase really disagrees with the majority is the length of mountain stages. The fanbase praised the route for it's long stage to Crans Montana but the actual stage, which left us all so disappointed, ended up being 70 km. Hard to blame the fanbase for being out of touch in that case.

I think this should also be the point to remember that this Giro could still end up decent if the last week delivers. The 2016, 2019 and 2020 editions had first two weeks not too dissimilar to the first two weeks of this year (with the exception that those edtions really got going on the penultimate weekend while this one hasn't) but they are now remembered as average or even above average editions. So it's not all doom and gloom. But I still think you have to criticize the organizers for consistently making routes where the first two weeks are predictably boring. Because not even Remco and Tao would have changed that.
 
I don't really think it's a general misunderstanding of what makes a route good. The negative aspects of this route, that are now pointed out, are definitely things there is a consensus about (e.g. nobody is saying backloading a route is great). It's just that the reasons the route was so well received have not lived up to expectation for one reason or another. The TT's turned out to be a non factor (unlucky for the organizers), of the 4 hyped mountain stages 3 just haven't taken place yet and the only one taking place was completely nerfed. Worth mentioning the one point about race design where the CN forum fanbase really disagrees with the majority is the length of mountain stages. The fanbase praised the route for it's long stage to Crans Montana but the actual stage, which left us all so disappointed, ended up being 70 km. Hard to blame the fanbase for being out of touch in that case.

I think this should also be the point to remember that this Giro could still end up decent if the last week delivers. The 2016, 2019 and 2020 editions had first two weeks not too dissimilar to the first two weeks of this year (with the exception that those edtions really got going on the penultimate weekend while this one hasn't) but they are now remembered as average or even above average editions. So it's not all doom and gloom. But I still think you have to criticize the organizers for consistently making routes where the first two weeks are predictably boring. Because not even Remco and Tao would have changed that.
Yeah route design wise its mostly been moderate mountain stages where I had hoped for better, with Lago Laceno and Gran Sasso being the culprits. The stage 10-12 lull also needs to stop
 
So I just looked back at my original reaction when the route was announced and I'm honestly amazed how spot on I was. I guess a broken clock is right twice a day.
I agree the route is a lot better than feared but I don't quite comply with the sudden appearance of what seems to be...hype? Ok, I admit, it's actually a decent route.

So firstly, let's get the good things out of the way (and I must admit there are quite a few).

The four main mountain stages, with which I mean Crans Montana, Monte Bondone, Val di Zoldo and Tre Cime all look really good and are honestly genuine surprises. Like Croix de Coeur? That run up to Zoldo Alto? Where on earth was that coming from? Genuinely can't remember when I was last this pleasently surprised by the inclusion of climbs in a grand tour. Monte Bondone and Tre Cime are more straight forwardly designed but both are seriously hard stages. This emphasis on few but really hard and well designed mountain stages is what I'm usually hoping for in the Giro so no complaints there.

I also like the overall amount of ITT mileage and I don't even have complaints about a TT like the Monte Lussari one (although I don't like its placement). I feel like the forum more or less agrees that the Plan de Corones TT's used to be pretty epic and think a Monte Lussari TT is just as crazy and exciting. I do love the possibility of an insanely hard TT that can lead to huge and unexpected time gaps. Even the most recent precedent for a late mountain TT, the one in the 2020 Tour, made for an instant classic, so again I'm fine with that.

Some more positives are that even though there are lots of rather flat stages at least many of them have a lot of climbing early on that will hopefully mean exciting breaks. There are only like 3 stages that look like uncontested bunch sprints while all other stages either have a tough start or some hills throughout to hopefully give attackers or the teams of more mountain fit sprinters the chance to drop their rivals. Then there are some more nice stages I wanted to give a shout out, in particular stage 4 and stage 8.

So enough with all this positivity, I'm starting to get bored.

My main problem with the route is the placement of the stages. First of all, the route is once again super backloaded, with 4 of the 6 most important stages all in the last week and the gc battle probably only really kicking off with the stage 9 TT in the first place.

Then I don't really like the order of the mountain stages. Despite the first two climbs of the stage, which are super tough, the Crans Montana stage will likely still be all about the final climb as it's the first proper mountain test. That's just a real shame. Meanwhile Monte Bondone and Tre Cime are such hard climbs that I just don't see anyone going earlier and although the Val di Zoldo stage looks great for attackers, it comes right before the two most important stages of the race which will certainly scare the riders.

The medium mountain stages are also a little meh, with the only really exciting looking one again coming right before a TT. That kind of stuff happens every single Giro and it just annoys the hell out of me. At least stage 15 comes before a rest day but even then I fear nobody will attack from so far out. Also, while there are only 3 100% clear cut sprint stages, which ich great, I see up to 9 stages that might very well end in (reduced) bunch sprints, which is anything but great. Then there are some other complaints like Gran Sasso still being a horrible mtf but nothing too big.

So yeah, I love some of the stage designs, I once again hate the order of the stages and there is some decent stuff in between. It's a real boom or bust design. If the first week is raced hard and time gaps are big early, I can see the Crans Montana stage exploding on the Croix de Coer and the racing never calming down after that. If the first week is raced conservatively and the time gaps stay small in the TT everyone will keep waiting for the final climbs and hope to have a great day on stage 20.

In any case, at least it's infinitely many times better than this years route. It's something like a 6 or a 7 out of 10.
 
I see the route is getting criticised a lot now, so I checked how it was perceived and voted after being presented a few months ago.
On the annual "Rate the Giro route" thread the 2023 edition received an average score of 7,42 (93 votes).

For comparison these were the average scores of the previous editions:
2022: 5,06 (67 votes)
2021: couldn't find the thread
2020: 7,84 (49 votes)
2019: 7,22 (60 votes)
2018: 5,75 (44 votes)
2017: 6,56 (71 votes)
2016: 6,79 (89 votes)

So the 2023 route was perceived as the second best Giro route since 2016. And yet the race has completely failed to deliver any GC relevant action.
Is the CN forum fanbase completely blind to how cycling is changing?
To be honest most of us dont actually know much about cycling and just spout our emotional biases as if they are reflective of objective reality.

Obviously I am the exception to this.
 
I still think this route is/was good. But I also think a lot of the high votes came because of the surprise inclusions of a few climbs (mainly Croix de Coeur).
However, as others already mentioned this route was too heavily reliant on the TT gaps earlier on or obviously having the pure climber type that will lose minutes in the TT's while being strong enough to contest in the mountains. However, do we even have such a rider in the Peloton?

Other that that, it's up to the riders to make the racing good. Frankly, throw the same riders with the same gaps in pretty much every GT route and you'll get similar racing.

And no, I don't think medium mountain stages would do the racing (in this Giro) better.. Frankly, the only way to really make the race better was to naturally enforce gaps with a MTF/HTF 3-5km ~10%. How many of them actually rideable Italy has in the south?
 
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Is the CN forum fanbase completely blind to how cycling is changing?
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It has already been said. For whatever reason, the ITTs failed to produce meaningful gaps, and with this sort of GC it's foolish to expect anything else than what they're doing. Frankly I'm not expecting anything till the Tre Cime (and I mean the climb, not the stage), and maybe not even there.
The route had problems, but literally everything that could go wrong did so. Covid, crashes, weather, strikes, etc.
 
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It has already been said. For whatever reason, the ITTs failed to produce meaningful gaps, and with this sort of GC it's foolish to expect anything else than what they're doing. Frankly I'm not expecting anything till the Tre Cime (and I mean the climb, not the stage), and maybe not even there.
The route had problems, but literally everything that could go wrong did so. Covid, crashes, weather, strikes, etc.
Pretty much.

I think the most frustrating thing is that it's the first 12 stages that are so lethargic which is the part of the race where you don't need multi mountain epics and where simply getting your Unipuerto MTF out of the way does wonders.

The second issue is again that the hardest stages all have MTFs, and I don't find it unlikely that the racing on these 3rd week mountain stages is simply gonna be limited to 5km action on Bondone, 7km action on Coi/Zoldo Alto, and 3 km of action on Tre Cime di Lavaredo.
 
The whole idea was for Remco to gain time in two ITTs and for Rogla and Co. to take it back in week three. So to be perfectly honest i don't really get all the complaints. In regards to lack of GC action. There was a lot of GC action up to and including stage 9. Remco then abandoning didn't kill all the GC action. It was a chest game or better a poker game. And now the cards will be dealt. So there was no lack of GC action all along. The idea on how they will go all out on each stage. And for a second or two to get exchanged in between them. C'mon.
 
I think II Giro should always have two planned design routes and depending on who turned up for the race used one of the two planned route accordingly.
Or
Move II Giro in July to be raced at night after the small thing in France is done for the day.

:D
 

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