2023 National Championships

[Boehmand]

I'm sure riders will find it great, but it's not something they're honour-bound to do a certain amount of times. There are no obligations.

I think you are I have different definitions of "honour".

Yes, you are honour bound - that's the whole point.

You are not contractually or practically bound, but that is a different matter.

 

[theyoungest]

The point is not riding to win it for yourself, the point is being prepared to ride for your country, if called upon.

It's about being willing to give a little back, rather than being selfish.

You're sure you're not being a little unreasonable here? Giving back? Hasn't he brought the whole nation to ecstasy by winning the Tour last year? It sure looked like it.

To me it seems like you feel that Vingegaard owes you something. Well, he doesn't.

 

[Boehmand]

Right. If a sprinter shows up for the Mont Ventoux Challenge, you think "props for trying" rather than "what the hell is he doing here"?

I guess Vingegaard thinks he has no chance in hell of doing well, and given his track record in one day races, he's probably right about that. I haven't seen the course in detail, but the simple fact that it's in Glasgow doesn't scream "Jonas Vingegaard, top favourite" to me.

The point is not being able to win, the point is stepping up when your country asks you to - if it asks you to.

95 % of the riders riding Worlds, know beforehand they have no chance of winning, but they show up for their country anyway, when called upon.

I dunno what country you are from, but imagine everyone not actually able to win it, just refused to ride because they could not win it.

 

[Boehmand]

You're sure you're not being a little unreasonable here? Giving back? Hasn't he brought the whole nation to ecstasy by winning the Tour last year? It sure looked like it.

To me it seems like you feel that Vingegaard owes you something. Well, he doesn't.

He didn't grow up in a vacuum.

 

[RedheadDane]

Anyway, back on topic, here's a quick rundown of national road race champions at the Tour:

Skjelmose
Madouas
Wright
Pogacar - but he'll probably be wearing some sort of classification jersey most of the Tour
Van Baarle
Simmons
Buchmann
Muhlberger
Lutsenko
Carapaz - probably, not yet officially selected. But of course, he rides for EF, so expect it to be official some time Thursday
Kirsch

 

[Netserk]

He didn't grow up in a vacuum.

Nor did he grow up in the national federation.

 

[theyoungest]

The point is not being able to win, the point is stepping up when your country asks you to - if it asks you to.

95 % of the riders riding Worlds, know beforehand they have no chance of winning, but they show up for their country anyway, when called upon.

I dunno what country you are from, but imagine everyone not actually able to win it, just refused to ride because they could not win it.

It's not the f.cking Third World War, it's the World Championships.

Look, if he was Jonas van der Poel, I'd understand your anger. Now I really don't see what you're so worked up about.

 

[Boehmand]

It's not the f.cking Third World War, it's the World Championships.

Look, if he was Jonas van der Poel, I'd understand your anger. Now I really don't see what you're so worked up about.

I'm worked up about the refusal to step up for your country.

I thought that was pretty clear by now.

Maybe I'm just too old, and the new "me, me, me, look at me and my SoMe"-generation has a different view, on taking pride in representing your country with honour.

 

[RedheadDane]

And here's a quick rundown of the national ITT champions at the Tour:

Asgreen - not officially selected, but I'm hoping
Van Aert
Cavagna - not officially selected, but likely
Pogacar - but will probably be wearing some sort of classification jersey by the time of the ITT
Castroviejo
Wærenskjold
Politt
Kwiatkowski
Lutsenko
Kirsch

 

[theyoungest]

I'm worked up about the refusal to step up for your country.

I thought that was pretty clear by now.

Maybe I'm just too old, and the new "me, me, me, look at me and my SoMe"-generation has a different view, on taking pride in representing your country with honour.

Yes, that is pretty clear. The question is why. I don't know how old you are, if you were a 100 years old I'd understand the war metaphors, but I guess you're not, in which case I don't

I think Denmark has a few riders who could do quite well on a flattish, slightly hilly course. Vingegaard is not one of them. So why should he be sent there kicking and screaming?

edit: btw, even on a very hard course he hasn't ever done well

 

[Boehmand]

Yes, that is pretty clear. The question is why. I don't know how old you are, if you were a 100 years old I'd understand the war metaphors, but I guess you're not, in which case I don't

I think Denmark has a few riders who could do quite well on a flattish, slightly hilly course. Vingegaard is not one of them. So why should he be sent there kicking and screaming?

edit: btw, even on a very hard course he hasn't ever done well

I'm amazed you are still missing the point

It's STILL not about him actually racing, it's about his refusal to do so, even if called upon.

I'm done with this debate, have a nice evening.

 

[RedheadDane]

I'm amazed you are still missing the point

It's STILL not about him actually racing, it's about his refusal to do so, even if called upon.

I'm done with this debate, have a nice evening.

Yeah, we get it. You're far too hung up on some silly notion of being "honour-bound" to ride for your country... let's leave that mentality in the past.

 

[Netserk]

Honour is good. For honourable things.

 

[Red Rick]

I can't wrap my head around people complaining Vingegaard didn't go to Australia last year when *** Mads Pedersen refused to go and and was all smug about it.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

The Albanian federation could have used a much simpler method than the one they went with.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673322059298897922

View: https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1673322059298897922/photo/1

According to CQ "The national championship result was determined on the basis of the ranking of the Uzbek riders in the international 1.2 race Tour of Bostonliq R.R." and similarly for the national ITT title.

If there can be guest riders in a national championships (and several countries allow it), or even more disruptive to the progression of a race, several national championships being determined in the same race (Baltics, Czechia & Slovakia; many countries have U23 and even juniors in the same race as seniors) then I suppose entries from the nation within a wider one day race is tolerable. I believe the British national marathon title has sometimes been incorporated into the London Marathon.

But claiming two batches of UCI points for the Uzbek riders from one day's effort is a bit naughty, especially with the goal of getting extra numbers in the WCC/OG.

 

[RedheadDane]

Carapaz now officially selected.
Chaves added to the list of RR champions.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Carapaz now officially selected.
Chaves added to the list of RR champions.

It's a good selection this year, might take me three weeks to get it all sussed.

 

[Boehmand]

Yeah, we get it. You're far too hung up on some silly notion of being "honour-bound" to ride for your country... let's leave that mentality in the past.

Let's agree it's none of you business if I believe in honouring my country

 

[RedheadDane]

Let's agree it's none of you business if I believe in honouring my country

Vingegaard honours his - our - country pretty well by winning the Tour.

 

[Boehmand]

Vingegaard honours his - our - country pretty well by winning the Tour.

I'm not going to continue this debate with you, we view honour and our country very differently, so it's a pointless debate.

 

[Netserk]

If he was called up by Her Majesty The Queen, then he would be bound by honour to do what is asked of him. But he is not. The cycling federation is not the country, and the national coach is not the queen.

 

[ManicJack]

I'm not going to continue this debate with you, we view honour and our country very differently, so it's a pointless debate.

Sounds familiar.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Let's agree it's none of you business if I believe in honouring my country

Happily. So why do you lecture us about it and insist that others should do the same?

 

[Boehmand]

Sounds familiar.

How so?

 

[Boehmand]

Happily. So why do you lecture us about it and insist that others should do the same?

I'm not lecturing anyone, I am offering my opinion on how I believe any athlete should feel about representing their country, when they get the chance.

Nor do I insist on anything, I am merely saying there is no need to debate a fundamental difference on "love of country" any further, since clearly neither of us will change it.

Also I'm pretty sure she can speak for herself.