I didn't say this neither. I actually tried to look at it from the positive side. Cauteret village would have give us no action at all. Now at least we have a batlle between GC contenders.
I didn't say this neither. I actually tried to look at it from the positive side. Cauteret village would have give us no action at all. Now at least we have a batlle between GC contenders.
still a lot of unclearity about the TT(s).
-Will there be a (team) time trial just before/after the pyrenees? Or are we going to have only 1 TT at the end of week 2/ start of week 3)
-The time trial at the end of week 2/ begin of week 3 will be flat/mixed/ or a real MTT?
-Will we get a surprise with a TT in Paris? (not likely)
-Will there be a (team) time trial just before/after the pyrenees? Or are we going to have only 1 TT at the end of week 2/ start of week 3)
-The time trial at the end of week 2/ begin of week 3 will be flat/mixed/ or a real MTT?
-Will we get a surprise with a TT in Paris? (not likely)
- Feb 24, 2014
- 15,228
- 3,122
- 28,180
Do we know anything about the girls' course?
...apart from the willingness to move away from Paris.
The inaugural edition showed the way race can be improved and keep a broader field in contention to the end.
The Dutchies handled the culmination rather well while the pretty evenly matched group behind found it a bit heavy.
A little patience until the girls don't get used to these new exertions won't harm.
Nothing to remove, just rearange.
...apart from the willingness to move away from Paris.
The inaugural edition showed the way race can be improved and keep a broader field in contention to the end.
The Dutchies handled the culmination rather well while the pretty evenly matched group behind found it a bit heavy.
A little patience until the girls don't get used to these new exertions won't harm.
Nothing to remove, just rearange.
- Oct 4, 2022
- 30
- 31
- 630
- Feb 24, 2014
- 15,228
- 3,122
- 28,180
- May 4, 2011
- 4,285
- 783
- 17,680
Looks like stage 20 will finish on the plateau at Le Markstein, BTW, so no MTF there either if they do a loop around Col du Haag
Grand Ballon via Col du Haag (HC)
Col du Haag (1st)
Le Markstein
or if they go via Platzerwasel
Last edited:
What would this mean for the profile of the stage?
Always thought that the Petit Ballon - Platzerwesel combo followed by a Le Markstein finish would be a pretty good last mountain stage in the Tour. Even designed one like that in a Tour version in the Race design thread.
- May 4, 2011
- 4,285
- 783
- 17,680
Yes it would and it's still a possibility.
for example
Hundsruck (2nd)
Grand Ballon via Col du Haag (HC)
Bannstein (4th)
Firstplan (2nd)
Petit Ballon East (1st)
Platzerwasel (1st)
or
Hundsruck (2nd)
Grand Ballon via Col du Haag (HC)
Col du Haag (1st)
(Schlucht via Le Markstein / Route des Crêtes)
Petit Ballon North (1st)
Platzerwasel (1st)
The second option would work really well, I think. They would first pass the finish line in the opposite direction, though.
- Feb 21, 2019
- 4,332
- 6,925
- 16,180
If there is just one ITT, I hope that he is a long one possibly in the area of Les Gets or Morzine on stage 15 or 16. But I still hope that stage 6 around Tarbes turns out to be an ITT instead of a TTT.
- May 4, 2011
- 4,285
- 783
- 17,680
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,781
- 44,124
- 28,180
Stage 6 TTT probably means it's a somewhat significant distance.
Then just look at the margin Jumbo won the Vuelta TTT by.
The Tour worked this year because first Jumbo were forced to attack Pogacar, and after that Pogacar was forced to attack Vingegaard, all the while both were way ahead of the rest. A TTT just puts Jumbo ahead for no reason while Jumbo will likely still have a numerical advantage with Roglic and Vingegaard.
Then just look at the margin Jumbo won the Vuelta TTT by.
The Tour worked this year because first Jumbo were forced to attack Pogacar, and after that Pogacar was forced to attack Vingegaard, all the while both were way ahead of the rest. A TTT just puts Jumbo ahead for no reason while Jumbo will likely still have a numerical advantage with Roglic and Vingegaard.
- Apr 30, 2011
- 46,815
- 29,395
- 28,180
No.
The major problem is the very top. You either need a new tunnel or to pave the road over it, but I don't see the latter ever happening.
There's also no economic incentive, as far as I can tell.
I think the whole, fall behind early and watch Pog attack every day only worked this year in bringing excitement to the race because there was always the possibility that it might work. We watched each attack on the edge of our seats because we thought "maybe this is the moment he'll break Jumbo". The force him to attack by falling behind early theory only works if you think the attacks might work.
The problem is, at a certain point, you realize the attacks go nowhere and you're just watching the same race over and over again. Jumbo has the team to control such attacks and Ving looks strong enough to finish things off even if his team is on a bad day. What I am getting at is, if there is a super long early TTT and Jumbo put 2 minutes into UAE, I don't think we're going to have an exciting race. I think we're going to have a race where Pog attacks, Jumbo brings it back and the lead gradually gets larger and larger. I don't think that'll be exciting 2 years in a row... If I am Pog and the Tour gifts Jumbo the yellow jersey with anything longer than a 30-35k TTT, I am going to the Giro to prove a point. I just don't see how this race can be competitive with a 60 K TTT early on unless something weird happens or if you think Ving is a flash in the pan (which I don't believe).
The problem is, at a certain point, you realize the attacks go nowhere and you're just watching the same race over and over again. Jumbo has the team to control such attacks and Ving looks strong enough to finish things off even if his team is on a bad day. What I am getting at is, if there is a super long early TTT and Jumbo put 2 minutes into UAE, I don't think we're going to have an exciting race. I think we're going to have a race where Pog attacks, Jumbo brings it back and the lead gradually gets larger and larger. I don't think that'll be exciting 2 years in a row... If I am Pog and the Tour gifts Jumbo the yellow jersey with anything longer than a 30-35k TTT, I am going to the Giro to prove a point. I just don't see how this race can be competitive with a 60 K TTT early on unless something weird happens or if you think Ving is a flash in the pan (which I don't believe).
- Feb 18, 2015
- 13,816
- 9,798
- 28,180
Yeah, TTT's have always been and will always be stupid. It gives the lead to the guy who is then best equipped to defend it. This is not just the case with Pog vs Jumbo. This is the problem with TTT's in general.
I will say, who I think the long TTT with some slim ITT might benefit is a healthy Bernal. Who knows what kind of shape he's in but that Ineos team is strong enough to compete with Jumbo and EB in his prime might be strong enough to break Jumbo especially if they're focused on Pog. Either way, a long TTT is utter insanity.
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,781
- 44,124
- 28,180
Okay a TTT can be long as long as it's long enough for Kuss to beat Pogacar in GC.
I get what you're saying but an ITT serves a point- isolate the best rider from the best team. The TTT defeats that purpose. If you want to have a TTT for TV, fine, keep it short and minimize it's impact on the race because it's a pointless event. Even more pointless with a team as stacked as Jumbo. I can't imagine why anyone beyond the strongest and loyalist Jumbo fan would want a long TTT.
don't underestimate how much stronger UAE will be next tour compared to this year.
- first they bought some strong riders, like Adem Yates, Grosschartner, Novak, Wellens
- last year they didn't send Almeida, Ayuso and Formolo to the tour
- just before and during the tour they had a lot of problems with Covid. No trentin, Bennett and Laengen out, Hirschi completely of shape, Majka ill during the tour and who knows if Pogacar himself was affected by the virus
So, of course Jumbo is still a much better team for a TTT on paper. And have better riders for the flat, windy stages. But as it looks it will be a tour with a lot of medium mountain and high mountains and not a first week, with cobbles, wind and smaller hills. So, terrain wise the weak part of UAE will be less exposed during the tour next year. Most likely they have an at least broader climber selection from the riders they bought or didn't select last year for the tour. And without covid some riders form should be better as well. So with Trentin, Wellens, or even Berg and Hirschi in better shape they have strong riders as well. So, saying that Jumbo can easily control if they got 40 seconds out a TTT seems exagerated.
besides as a fourth point, they probably learned from last year that Pog not can do everything on his own. Attacking wherever possible, and closing gaps himself as well from week 1. With this lesson from last year and a stronger team, the changes are much smaller that he will get tricked in doing to much work. His time losses on Granon and Hautacam were after a stage he got tricked to ride to hard on Galibier and one after he tried to attack for 2 days in a row.
So, if Jumbo wins 30 seconds - 1 minute in the TTT, Pog is still in a much better situation than last year after Galibier.
We have to wait for the final route, but it look like there will be quite some stages that probably suit Pog more than Vingegaard, like the 2 bask stages with short steep climbs. If riding smarter Pog will be able to catch more bonus seconds. And will have a team that can take initiative, even against a strong Jumbo.
Last edited:
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,781
- 44,124
- 28,180
None of those signings are great additions for a TTT?
Bringing Almeida should help the team to be sure, and yes UAE is stronger than they let on during the Tour, but the biggest component will probably just be that Pogacar needs to be better than he was during the Tour.
that's not what I was saying? In the TTT Jumbo should still smash them. However, in medium mountains and high mountains, there should be days that the team can outperform Jumbo instead of Jumbo outperforming UAE like last year. That means more pressure on Jumbo. Less need for Pog to respond himself. And most likely he can be fresher on the moments that care in the race. In theory an uphill finish like Pont d'Espagne should fit Pog maybe even more than Vingegaard, like the bask stages. So, the general opinion above that a TTT will be bad for the race and Jumbo can control afterwards is not an opinion I share.
- Jul 18, 2020
- 1,167
- 1,754
- 7,680
Pont d'espagne is a better finish than cauterets. But, even cauterets is a proper finish, because could "force" riders to attack on Tourmalet.
I like that kind of stages with a HC climb and next a more easy climb. Like finestre/sestriere for example.
Last edited:
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,781
- 44,124
- 28,180
I don't think they'll outperform Jumbo on any terrain unless Roglic crashes out.
Arguably Jumbo's only weak spot is Kuss' consistency.
TRENDING THREADS
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s RR, September 28- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 2K
-
European Championship 2025: Men’s RR, October 5- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 855
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 35K
-
Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 183
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s ITT, September 21- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 942
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 40K
-
Tre Valli Varesine 2025, one day race, October 7- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 169
Latest posts
-
-
-
Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread- Latest: RedheadDane
-
-
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram