2023 Tour de France route rumors

[gavia88]

also from Velowire (https://www.velowire.com/article/11...urs-sur-le-parcours-et-les-villes-etapes.html):

"

L’enquête. Sept jours dans les Alpes... Découvrez où va passer le Tour de France 2023

Alors que le parcours du Tour de France 2023 sera dévoilé ce jeudi à Paris, nous vous révélons les grandes lignes du tracé de cette 110e édition. Une cuvée qui fera de nouveau la part belle aux Alpes avec un terrain de jeu idéal pour la revanche du match haletant de l’été dernier entre Jonas...

c.ledauphine.com

14 juillet : Châtillon - Gd Colombier
15 juillet : Annemasse - Morzine
16 juillet : Les Gets - St Gervais
17 juillet : Repos
18 juillet : CLM Passy - Combloux avec Montée de Domancy
19 juillet : Sallanches - Col de la Loze et arrivée à Courchevel en descente.
20 juillet : Moûtiers - Bourg en Bresse

"

Not much different then we already knew, but with ledauphine as sourch the rumours getting more trustfull. The overall picture of the route seems to be good. But those alp stages so far are not looking good.

-GD, most likely 2020 style.
-Could be a good stage, although I hope more than just the traditional Joux-Plaine Morzine run in. Joux-Plain + Joux Vert is what I'm hoping for. But even if they do this combo, it's tricky placed for long range attacks as all the next stages will be important
-St Gervais is hopelessly placed for good stage design. Le Bettex is likely, but is not good linkable with any other climb
-Passy and Combloux are almost 2 towns next to each other. Probably a to short hilly time trial that will appear to be the only time trial in the race
-Col de la Loze can grow to be a classic, but coming from Sallanches it's horrible linkable to any other mayor climb. So, it will be all about those last kilometers on col de la Loze again + some kilometers downhill to Courchevel and maybe 1 uphill to the airport. No long range attacks possible. Or ASO should have a surprise in mind?
-sprint, with at least the second half of the stage completely flat (is the Rhone valley around Bourg en Bresse know for wind in the summer????)

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

also from Velowire (https://www.velowire.com/article/11...urs-sur-le-parcours-et-les-villes-etapes.html):

"

L’enquête. Sept jours dans les Alpes... Découvrez où va passer le Tour de France 2023

Alors que le parcours du Tour de France 2023 sera dévoilé ce jeudi à Paris, nous vous révélons les grandes lignes du tracé de cette 110e édition. Une cuvée qui fera de nouveau la part belle aux Alpes avec un terrain de jeu idéal pour la revanche du match haletant de l’été dernier entre Jonas...

c.ledauphine.com

14 juillet : Châtillon - Gd Colombier
15 juillet : Annemasse - Morzine
16 juillet : Les Gets - St Gervais
17 juillet : Repos
18 juillet : CLM Passy - Combloux avec Montée de Domancy
19 juillet : Sallanches - Col de la Loze et arrivée à Courchevel en descente.
20 juillet : Moûtiers - Bourg en Bresse

"

Not much different then we already knew, but with ledauphine as sourch the rumours getting more trustfull. The overall picture of the route seems to be good. But those alp stages so far are not looking good.

-GD, most likely 2020 style.
-Could be a good stage, although I hope more than just the traditional Joux-Plaine Morzine run in. Joux-Plain + Joux Vert is what I'm hoping for. But even if they do this combo, it's tricky placed for long range attacks as all the next stages will be important
-St Gervais is hopelessly placed for good stage design. Le Bettex is likely, but is not good linkable with any other climb
-Passy and Combloux are almost 2 towns next to each other. Probably a to short hilly time trial that will appear to be the only time trial in the race
-Col de la Loze can grow to be a classic, but coming from Sallanches it's horrible linkable to any other mayor climb. So, it will be all about those last kilometers on col de la Loze again + some kilometers downhill to Courchevel and maybe 1 uphill to the airport. No long range attacks possible. Or ASO should have a surprise in mind?
-sprint, with at least the second half of the stage completely flat (is the Rhone valley around Bourg en Bresse know for wind in the summer????)

I think the Col de la Loze from the bottom is too hard to do something earlier, no matter the route. It just maybe shouldn't be the final climb, but it's not that good to combine. Nevertheless, the Col de la Loze and the Gran Colombier should create large gaps, resulting in crazy carnage on the following mountain/hilly stages.

 

[gavia88]

I think the Col de la Loze from the bottom is too hard to do something earlier, no matter the route. It just maybe shouldn't be the final climb, but it's not that good to combine. Nevertheless, the Col de la Loze and the Gran Colombier should create large gaps, resulting in crazy carnage on the following mountain/hilly stages.

well, you can climb back to Meribel aftewards. That would be a good combo.

 

[pman]

The big mystery stages as I see it are:

1. Stage 6- Team Trial is the rumor, how long is the main question
2. When is the ITT. Will it be stage 15 as Velowire has suggested. Will it be a MTT as some have guessed? Will there somehow be a second ITT?
3. Stage 19. For my money, that stage is the big mystery. I've been persuaded that stage 18 will be a pure sprint stage. Stage 20 seems tough. We really need stage 19 to make that last week a proper final week in the Tour. Will it finish Poligny as Velowire suggests or will it finish in Delemont as some readers have suggested. A stage from Moirans-en-Montagne to Delemont could be a spicy affair while a finish in Poligny seems to have less potential.

Thoughts on stage 19?

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

also from Velowire (https://www.velowire.com/article/11...urs-sur-le-parcours-et-les-villes-etapes.html):

"

L’enquête. Sept jours dans les Alpes... Découvrez où va passer le Tour de France 2023

Alors que le parcours du Tour de France 2023 sera dévoilé ce jeudi à Paris, nous vous révélons les grandes lignes du tracé de cette 110e édition. Une cuvée qui fera de nouveau la part belle aux Alpes avec un terrain de jeu idéal pour la revanche du match haletant de l’été dernier entre Jonas...

c.ledauphine.com

14 juillet : Châtillon - Gd Colombier
15 juillet : Annemasse - Morzine
16 juillet : Les Gets - St Gervais
17 juillet : Repos
18 juillet : CLM Passy - Combloux avec Montée de Domancy
19 juillet : Sallanches - Col de la Loze et arrivée à Courchevel en descente.
20 juillet : Moûtiers - Bourg en Bresse

"

Not much different then we already knew, but with ledauphine as sourch the rumours getting more trustfull. The overall picture of the route seems to be good. But those alp stages so far are not looking good.

-GD, most likely 2020 style.
-Could be a good stage, although I hope more than just the traditional Joux-Plaine Morzine run in. Joux-Plain + Joux Vert is what I'm hoping for. But even if they do this combo, it's tricky placed for long range attacks as all the next stages will be important
-St Gervais is hopelessly placed for good stage design. Le Bettex is likely, but is not good linkable with any other climb
-Passy and Combloux are almost 2 towns next to each other. Probably a to short hilly time trial that will appear to be the only time trial in the race
-Col de la Loze can grow to be a classic, but coming from Sallanches it's horrible linkable to any other mayor climb. So, it will be all about those last kilometers on col de la Loze again + some kilometers downhill to Courchevel and maybe 1 uphill to the airport. No long range attacks possible. Or ASO should have a surprise in mind?
-sprint, with at least the second half of the stage completely flat (is the Rhone valley around Bourg en Bresse know for wind in the summer????)

Based on all the rumors, ASO is trying to make a tough tour not just based on mountains but on overall wear and tear. The only expected sprints are stages 3,7,8?(could be hilly+weird stuff can happen on 5% rises to the line, like Laporte in Cahors last year), 11, 18?, 19??????,and 21. So really 4 set sprints, stage 18 maybe and who knows about Limoges and stage 19. I don’t agree this is the best route, but it is better than the days of 9 set sprint stages.

 

[pman]

Based on all the rumors, ASO is trying to make a tough tour not just based on mountains but on overall wear and tear. The only expected sprints are stages 3,7,8?(could be hilly+weird stuff can happen on 5% rises to the line, like Laporte in Cahors last year), 11, 18?, 19??????, and 21. So really 4 set sprints, stage 18 maybe and who knows about Limoges and stage 19. I don't agree this is the best route, but it is better than the days of 9 set sprint stages.

It's definitely better than 8 straight sprint stages. But Stage 19 better be tough because a third week that is outside the Pyrenees and Alps which includes 2 flatish sprint stages seems less than inspiring to put it kindly.

 

[pman]

Of course, if I am Roglic, I am looking at this route and like my chances. No reason Primoz can't get time on Jonas in those Basque stages. Then climb like crazy in Pyrenees. Gain time on Pog in a TTT. Get the tough Alpine stages out of the way in week 2 and then a softer week 3 with some hilly stages. We're spending all this time talking Pog vs Jonas but the route as we know looks like Primoz designed it. I say that as a Primoz and Pog fan.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

The big mystery stages as I see it are:

1. Stage 6- Team Trial is the rumor, how long is the main question
2. When is the ITT. Will it be stage 15 as Velowire has suggested. Will it be a MTT as some have guessed? Will there somehow be a second ITT?
3. Stage 19. For my money, that stage is the big mystery. I've been persuaded that stage 18 will be a pure sprint stage. Stage 20 seems tough. We really need stage 19 to make that last week a proper final week in the Tour. Will it finish Poligny as Velowire suggests or will it finish in Delemont as some readers have suggested. A stage from Moirans-en-Montagne to Delemont could be a spicy affair while a finish in Poligny seems to have less potential.

Thoughts on stage 19?

I think stage 19 is a typical week 3 flat stage, which on paper should be a sprint, but a lot of teams are in desperation mode, forming a large break. In the peleton the teams are tired and some might loose contact on a short climb or in the final due to concentration errors. Pretty much like this year's Giro stage 18 or Tour stage 19. I always like to say, flat stages in week 3 have their own laws and rules, and that might be the one in 2023.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Of course, if I am Roglic, I am looking at this route and like my chances. No reason Primoz can't get time on Jonas in those Basque stages. Then climb like crazy in Pyrenees. Gain time on Pog in a TTT. Get the tough Alpine stages out of the way in week 2 and then a softer week 3 with some hilly stages. We're spending all this time talking Pog vs Jonas but the route as we know looks like Primoz designed it. I say that as a Primoz and Pog fan.

I agree. Whilst I wouldn't put Rog on the same line of betting as Pog and Jonas, he has a decent chance. As I have mentioned before, I see a lot of Evans 09-10 with Roglic 21-22 at the Tour, with most seeing said riders as having missed their chances in 07-08, 19-20.

He will enter the race as a clear number 2 (if he doesn't ride Giro) in the Jumbo hierarchy, but still as a semi protected rider, for why wouldn't they want two riders ahead of Pog on GC after stage 6?

If his luck changes than he could win this (also given the slightly softer third week as you mentioned).

 

[gavia88]

The big mystery stages as I see it are:

1. Stage 6- Team Trial is the rumor, how long is the main question
2. When is the ITT. Will it be stage 15 as Velowire has suggested. Will it be a MTT as some have guessed? Will there somehow be a second ITT?
3. Stage 19. For my money, that stage is the big mystery. I've been persuaded that stage 18 will be a pure sprint stage. Stage 20 seems tough. We really need stage 19 to make that last week a proper final week in the Tour. Will it finish Poligny as Velowire suggests or will it finish in Delemont as some readers have suggested. A stage from Moirans-en-Montagne to Delemont could be a spicy affair while a finish in Poligny seems to have less potential.

Thoughts on stage 19?

mwa

the whole second part of the second week is difficult, Issoire (hilly or medium mountain), Grand Columbier (high mountain), morzine (high mountain), Saint-Gervais (medium like Megeve last year or high mountain like 2016), Time Trial, Courchevel (high mountain)

Stage 18 is the first sprint stage in more than a week time. Stage 20 is again a mountain stage. So, I wouldn't say that stage 19 need to be mountainious to have a decent week 3. It most likely will be hilly at least. I wouldn't count on GC importancy. It just a bonus if they put some GC relevant climbs in the final of that stage. My guess is that it will be a stage for the breakaway, to difficult for the real sprinters, but nothing that triggers GC riders.

 

[gavia88]

Based on all the rumors, ASO is trying to make a tough tour not just based on mountains but on overall wear and tear. The only expected sprints are stages 3,7,8?(could be hilly+weird stuff can happen on 5% rises to the line, like Laporte in Cahors last year), 11, 18?, 19??????,and 21. So really 4 set sprints, stage 18 maybe and who knows about Limoges and stage 19. I don’t agree this is the best route, but it is better than the days of 9 set sprint stages.

so, far there is rumoured only 1 time trial, no cobbles or gravel, no nothern/flandrien like hilly stages or wind stages. I would say that you are describing last years route. This route seems more 1-deminsional in the sense that it's about climbing from stage 1 till stage 20.

Likely sprint stages:
stage 3 to Bayonne
stage 4 is rumoured to go from dax to Nogaro, so most likely sprint as well (although slightly hilly) (and no TTT)
stage 7 goes to Bordeau
stage 8 goes to Limoges (most likely another sprint, but a difficult sprint)
stage 10 to Moulins will be a sprint
stage 18 to Bourg en Bresse most likely a sprint stage
stage 21 of course a sprint

That would make 7 clear sprint stages. Of course, some of those stages (like Nogaro and Limoges) have the possibility to add some spice in the final to make it not a 100% mass sprint, but a reduced bunch sprint.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I don't. I actually think it's a very hard stage for a stage 5. I don't think it helps the stage before though.

The stage before is a sprint.

LE TOUR - A Bayonne, Dax, Mont-de-Marsan, Nogaro, Laruns, Pau, Tarbes et Cauterets ?

Après un départ depuis Bilbao, le 1er juillet, la Grande Boucle passera 5 jours sur le bassin Adour Gascogne. Verdict officiel le jeudi 27 octobre.

presselib.com

Stage 6 is the Pau - Laruns stage, so they actually got it right.

 

[gavia88]

The stage before is a sprint.

LE TOUR - A Bayonne, Dax, Mont-de-Marsan, Nogaro, Laruns, Pau, Tarbes et Cauterets ?

Après un départ depuis Bilbao, le 1er juillet, la Grande Boucle passera 5 jours sur le bassin Adour Gascogne. Verdict officiel le jeudi 27 octobre.

presselib.com

Stage 6 is the Pau - Laruns stage, so they actually got it right.

question then is Laruns from the east (Aubisque) or Laruns from the west (Marie-Blanque)

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

question then is Laruns from the east (Aubisque) or Laruns from the west (Marie-Blanque)

Yep and since we already knew that there would only be one stage in the Hautes-Pyrénées department it's safe to assume that the entire stage is in Pyrénées-Atlantiques.

so no Soulor east, or Spandelles.

Via Soulor north is possible. But it's not even remotely linkable with other climbs in the same department.

The Marie-Blanque option looks likely. edit: unless the stage is really short

 

[gavia88]

Yep and since we already knew that there would only be one stage in the Hautes-Pyrénées department it's safe to assume that the entire stage is in Pyrénées-Atlantiques.

so no Soulor east, or Spandelles.

Via Soulor north is possible. But it's not even remotely linkable with other climbs in the same department.

The Marie-Blanque option looks likely. edit: unless the stage is really short

It's less than 40 kilometers. They could make it a 36 kilometer TTT

 

[gavia88]

Yep and since we already knew that there would only be one stage in the Hautes-Pyrénées department it's safe to assume that the entire stage is in Pyrénées-Atlantiques.

so no Soulor east, or Spandelles.

Via Soulor north is possible. But it's not even remotely linkable with other climbs in the same department.

The Marie-Blanque option looks likely. edit: unless the stage is really short

yes, most likely it will be the Marie-Blanque option. Copy paste 2020?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

So, all the most recent rumors are that every stage is going to be basically 10 kms long and easier than hoped or am I interpreting this wrong?

 

[gavia88]

It's less than 40 kilometers. They could make it a 36 kilometer TTT

I was joking a bit. But considering the fact that Gaudu was mentioning somewhere in a podcast that there would be a TTT. it is the only spot where it's still possible now stage 4 seems to be Dax-Nogaro and the distance fits well for a decent TTT, it really could be a TTT

 

[gavia88]

So, all the most recent rumors are that every stage is going to be basically 10 kms long and easier than hoped or am I interpreting this wrong?

well, somethings that stands out this tour is indeed the short distance between the start and finish stages as well as the distance between the stages are short. Most likely we get a lot of short stages indeed and the obstacles most likely spread out over multiple stages in the race. Instead of the climbs bundled in a few very hard queen stages, like in the giro next year.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

yes, most likely it will be the Marie-Blanque option. Copy paste 2020?

Yes, something like that. With Soudet west instead of Hourcère / Soudet, I'm guessing.

Soudet west has only been climbed once in the Tour, IIRC. (Apart from the last 3.8 kms)

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I was joking a bit. But considering the fact that Gaudu was mentioning somewhere in a podcast that there would be a TTT. it is the only spot where it's still possible now stage 4 seems to be Dax-Nogaro and the distance fits well for a decent TTT, it really could be a TTT

Could be that the original plan was a (flattish) TTT, but that UAE made a few phone calls when they caught wind of it. The article I linked to implies it's a road stage. IMO

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Could be that the original plan was a (flattish) TTT, but that UAE made a few phone calls when they caught wind of it. The article I quoted implies it's a road stage. IMO

Nogaro and Dax are 100 kilometres apart by road, it was never going to be a TTT there. Even from Mont de Marsan it's 45 kilometres which seems unlikely. If a TTT was ever planned, it would probably have been Dax to Dax and not between two separate currently-rumoured hosts.

 

[Netserk]

Yes, something like that. With Soudet west instead of Hourcère / Soudet, I'm guessing.

Soudet west has only been climbed once in the Tour, IIRC. (Apart from the last 3.8 kms)

It has been climbed several times.

2006, 1991 & 1987.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Nogaro and Dax are 100 kilometres apart by road, it was never going to be a TTT there. Even from Mont de Marsan it's 45 kilometres which seems unlikely. If a TTT was ever planned, it would probably have been Dax to Dax and not between two separate currently-rumoured hosts.

I know. I was referring to stage 6 (since gavia88 was), not stage 4.

Some people assumed there would be a TTT on stage 6 since it was the only option left. But not anymore. It's clearly a light-ish mountain stage (like stage 5), going by the article I posted.

 

[gavia88]

I know. I was referring to stage 6 (since gavia88 was), not stage 4.

Some people assumed there would be a TTT on stage 6 since it was the only option left. But not anymore. It's clearly a light-ish mountain stage (like stage 5), going by the article I posted.

there is always a small change that ASO managed to hide a few details and the newspaper got it wrong. Like (some brainstorming from some poster on Velowire):

-Mardi: Mont de marsan-Nogaro c.l.m par équipe
-Mercredi:Tarbes-cauterets(Pont d'Espagne)
-Jeudi: Pau-Laruns
-Vendredi Dax-Bordeaux

OR

-Mardi : clm par équipes autour de Dax
-Mercredi : Tarbes-Cauterets Pont d'Espagne
-Jeudi : Pau-Laruns avec Marie-Blanque dans le final
-Vendredi : Nogaro-Bordeaux

OR


-Mardi : Dax - Nogaro
-Mercredi : Tarbes-Cauterets Pont d'Espagne
-Jeudi : Pau-Laruns TTT
-Vendredi : Mont de Larsan - Bordeaux


But chances of a TTT are not that high anymore.