2023 Tour de France route rumors

[Gigs_98]

Thanks, that was me.
The problem would probably occur when the front group starting climbing to Courchevel, becuase it's only a 28 Kilometer loop, most of them downhill, 5 kilometer slightly uphill and 10 kilometer at 6 percent, so the grupetto can't be much more than 40 minutes behind. So the most likely stage like that would probably be flat until Col de la Loze, to avoid to big of a time gap.

Full stage: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/41304657

Unfortunately I don't think finishing in Courchevel, at least where your stage finishes, is really an option anyway. The crowds coming to the mtf of a TdF stage are way too huge to descent through on the way down to the valley. I'm highly critical at any attempt of using the same piece of a climb in two directions but I think at the Tour that's just a complete no go.

That said, you could use your route but instead of going all the way up to the airport just finish in Courchevel Le Praz like the Dauphine in 2014. No road would have to be used twice and I think that climb is much better suited to be placed after the monster that is the Col de la Loze anyway.

 

[Andy schleck]

Tour de France 2023 : deux étapes en Béarn et en Bigorre - France Bleu

Alors que le parcours du Tour de France est dévoilé ce jeudi matin, nous vous présentons les étapes probables en Béarn et en Bigorre. Le 5 juillet, la 5e étape se ferait entre Pau et Laruns. Le 6 juillet, la 6e étape partirait de Tarbes pour arriver à Cauterets, au plateau du Cambasque.

www.francebleu.fr

Forget abou TTT.
Pau-laruns
Tarbes -cambasque cauterets

 

[Will4563]

Unfortunately I don't think finishing in Courchevel, at least where your stage finishes, is really an option anyway. The crowds coming to the mtf of a TdF stage are way too huge to descent through on the way down to the valley. I'm highly critical at any attempt of using the same piece of a climb in two directions but I think at the Tour that's just a complete no go.

That said, you could use your route but instead of going all the way up to the airport just finish in Courchevel Le Praz like the Dauphine in 2014. No road would have to be used twice and I think that climb is much better suited to be placed after the monster that is the Col de la Loze anyway.

All rumors says the stage finish is at the Altiport, so it needs to go all the way up.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

Regarding a crazy stage to create great carnage around the Col de la Loze we have to hope for 2025 or 2026 with the combo Madeleine - Loze - Champagny-en-Vanoise or Madeleine - Tougnete - Loze

(Col de Tougnete needs an east ramp down to Meribel, there were some talks about it earlier in this thread. We also could create a thread with possible future roads to build)

 

[Will4563]

I don't know very well the area, but it's not possible to have a proper climb between bisanne and la bettex? Could be a good combo.

I tried making a route like that but there is to long between these two climbs. The top of the Bisanne is almost 40 kilometers away from the foot of Bettex. The first 17 Kilometers is switching between downhill and flat road, then there is 10 kilometes of flat before 8 kilometres of downhill, and 2 kilometres flat before the climb: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/41305027

Another option would be this: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/41305040
It's the Bettex + Les Toiles. 2.4 Km with 12%, the last Km being 17.3%.

 

[Will4563]

Regarding a crazy stage to create great carnage around the Col de la Loze we have to hope for 2025 or 2026 with the combo Madeleine - Loze - Champagny-en-Vanoise or Madeleine - Tougnete - Loze

(Col de Tougnete needs an east ramp down to Meribel, there were some talks about it earlier in this thread. We also could create a thread with possible future roads to build)

A thread with possible roads to build would be great. Or a thread with unseen climbs and combos to use.

The Madeleine + Tougnete + Loze + Pralognan la Vanoise (Or Champagny en Vanoise, or Plan Fournier , or Feissons sur Salins or La Cour) would be a brutal stage, and no flat in the last 90 Km, a attack could come everywhere: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/41305080

 

[Will4563]

A thread with possible roads to build would be great. Or a thread with unseen climbs and combos to use. Or we could make a thread with "Climbs we would have liked to see in the Tour 2023, but weren't added" when the route gets reveald.

The Madeleine + Tougnete + Loze + Pralognan la Vanoise (Or Champagny en Vanoise, or Plan Fournier , or Feissons sur Salins or La Cour) would be a brutal stage, and no flat in the last 90 Km, a attack could come everywhere: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/41305080

 

[Mayomaniac]

Regarding a crazy stage to create great carnage around the Col de la Loze we have to hope for 2025 or 2026 with the combo Madeleine - Loze - Champagny-en-Vanoise or Madeleine - Tougnete - Loze

(Col de Tougnete needs an east ramp down to Meribel, there were some talks about it earlier in this thread. We also could create a thread with possible future roads to build)

Champagny after Loze is perfect, that could be such an awesome stage and create huge gaps.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Champagny after Loze is perfect, that could be such an awesome stage and create huge gaps.

Don't see it ever happening given that Champagny is part of a different ski resort. Best-case scenario for a future edition (which would still be very good) is Loze via Meribel, descend back to Brides-les-Bains then climb back up to Meribel and finish in the resort.

 

[Red Rick]

Ski resorts hating each other is what is killing all the best designs innit?

 

[Salvarani]

Ski resorts hating each other is what is killing all the best designs innit?

Most likely it is politics and business.

And after that they might be able to design the stages after they gone through the logistics and taken some more money under the table, just for good measure.

 

[Green Jersey Mike]

They should climb the Col de la Loze from the Courchevel side to avoid climbing/Descending the same section of road.

 

[Red Rick]

So now it's 1x Pyrenees, 1x Central Massive, 3x Alps and 1x Vosgues?

 

[gavia88]

Tour de France 2023 : deux étapes en Béarn et en Bigorre - France Bleu

Alors que le parcours du Tour de France est dévoilé ce jeudi matin, nous vous présentons les étapes probables en Béarn et en Bigorre. Le 5 juillet, la 5e étape se ferait entre Pau et Laruns. Le 6 juillet, la 6e étape partirait de Tarbes pour arriver à Cauterets, au plateau du Cambasque.

www.francebleu.fr

Forget abou TTT.
Pau-laruns
Tarbes -cambasque cauterets

very possible the authories didn't give permission to finish in the protected area around pont d'espagne. Sportive wise the differences is not that big. Esthetical Pont d'espagne is more beautiful.

Pau-Laruns can be a TTT as well in theory. But probably the Gaudu tweet was a false clue.

 

[gavia88]

So now it's 1x Pyrenees, 1x Central Massive, 3x Alps and 1x Vosgues?

2x bask mountains
1 or 2 x pyrenees (cauteret and maybe Laruns)
2 x central massive (Puy de Dome and rumours say that the stage to Issoire is going to pass the area of Puy de Sancy
1 x Beaujolais
1 x Jura (or maybe a 2nd time after the alps, in the direction of the Vosges)
3 x Alps (or 4 if you count the time trial)
1 x Vosgues

 

[tobydawq]

So now it's 1x Pyrenees, 1x Central Massive, 3x Alps and 1x Vosgues?

And 15 flat stages?

What do you think...?

 

[OlavEH]

Ski resorts hating each other is what is killing all the best designs innit?

In Spain and Italy it seems to be regional politics? They have to do a climb from a certain side or stay within a certain region on the stage. It's pretty ridiculous. I thought it was bad here in Norway, but it seems even worse in for example Italy. Also noticed that on a vacation by the Garda lake a month ago.

 

[Red Rick]

And 15 flat stages?

What do you think...?

15 TTs and uninspiring stages

 

[tobydawq]

15 TTs and uninspiring stages

15 TTs seems excessive.

I'm sure you'll find the six other stages uninspiring too, to be honest.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

very possible the authories didn't give permission to finish in the protected area around pont d'espagne. Sportive wise the differences is not that big. Esthetical Pont d'espagne is more beautiful.

Pau-Laruns can be a TTT as well in theory. But probably the Gaudu tweet was a false clue.

Yeah, looks like the Pont d'Espagne plan fell through because of that. The area is indeed much more scenic and the climb is a bit harder too.

shame the stage 5 and 6 finishes seem to have been reversed. Laruns 1st, Cauterets 2nd as per the latest info

 

[pman]

So much excitement and negativity. I am sure the route won't be perfect but I am sure it won't also be dreadful. It's been a long time since we've had a horrible route. I think the route looks like it always has looked which is relentless. No impossible weeks but a steady supply of tough stages which will challenge different riders. I am no different than anyone else, I have strong opinions- I like tough ITTs and I hate any TTT over 30K but overall, I am just excited to see the route and I trust it should be at least a decent route. The beauty of the Tour is that even a bad route is just a one off thing. It's not like your team building a new stadium that stinks which you're then stuck with for decades.

 

[Green Jersey Mike]

My concern with the route and especially the development of recent routes is that the Tour de France tends to have a strong fixation to specific geographic regions. The result is that the perceived next years Tour de France route is more a Tour of Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes than a Tour of France. The Majority of the Rest of the Route is divided between Spain and Nouvelle-Aquitanie. I know that much of Northern and Central France is lacking in major climbs but there are still many opportunities in these regions for great courses. Brittany is packed full of steep punchy climbs that they could potentially use to make a very difficult day. Just think if the Tour did a circuit of the Mur de Bretagne. The Last ascent used a 15km loop. If they were to use this to make a 200 kilometre stage it would have roughly 4000 metres of climbing. I am not arguing for 12 Boring Flat Stages. I am arguing against 5 Consecutive Stages that are the same type in very close Proximity together. Also they need to incorporate the Southern Alps North of Nice more. I imagine 2024 they will make the backdrop of hopefully an epic finale in Nice.

 

[Gigs_98]

very possible the authories didn't give permission to finish in the protected area around pont d'espagne. Sportive wise the differences is not that big. Esthetical Pont d'espagne is more beautiful.

I just cannot understand how people here seem to be so indifferent about where that stage finishes. If it's pont d'espagne it's the first major gc battle of the Tour. If it's in Cautarets itself it's a breakaway stage with 0 gc implications. How is a forum complaining about literally anything not complaining about that? I mean yeah, the local authorities might not make the pont d'espagne finish possible, but the finish in Cautarets is a rubbish design nontheless.

 

[Gigs_98]

Ski resorts hating each other is what is killing all the best designs innit?

I mean, none of this would be a problem if the ski resort with the better stage finish was the one paying for the stage. The Tour can use the Col de la Loze without the Courchevel-Meribel region paying for it you know.

 

[Kyllingen86]

I just cannot understand how people here seem to be so indifferent about where that stage finishes. If it's pont d'espagne it's the first major gc battle of the Tour. If it's in Cautarets itself it's a breakaway stage with 0 gc implications. How is a forum complaining about literally anything not complaining about that? I mean yeah, the local authorities might not make the pont d'espagne finish possible, but the finish in Cautarets is a rubbish design nontheless.

It's the Tour - What did you expect?

The Tour is lucky to have the best riders participate by default since their route is notoriously known to be awful year after year. If you swapped the timeframe (July) with the Giro or for that matter Vuelta the Tour would be a clear number three of the Grand tours.