2023 Tour de France route rumors

[Krzysztof_O]

Fauniera in the Tour? Pogi had better gain a few kilos and fully focus on the classics then.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Agree on Pailheres. Hope we'll see that Pailheres - Bonascre combo

Or Port de Balès + Superbagnères.

 

[houtdffan]

Should the stage end in Avoriaz or descend to Morzine? I would be satisfied if they did the same sequence of climbs as in the 2006 Tour.

Joux-Plane is one of the far better climbs in the Alps that they are proned to using. Rather than AdH, a Galibier descent finish or all of these 20 km, 6 % climbs. Besides Granon (which won't be used next year again) and Loze as a pass (which won't happen), Joux Plane and the Romme/Colomiere combo are two of the better mountain stages that could happen in the Alps.

Agree on Pailheres. Hope we'll see that Pailheres - Bonascre combo.

Nah, go full 1983 Morzine. Add the Glandon and Madeliene first, then do the climbs of the 2006 stage

Would love to see a stage where Pog and Vingegaard would be like 5 minutes down to Remco due to insanely long ITTs. Would be total carnage on that stage

 

[OlavEH]

Nah, go full 1983 Morzine. Add the Glandon and Madeliene first, then do the climbs of the 2006 stage

Would love to see a stage where Pog and Vingegaard would be like 5 minutes down to Remco due to insanely long ITTs. Would be total carnage on that stage

Yeah, but I prefer to theorize on stages that can actually happen.

A big Mercantour stage can happen, but as you said, more probably in 2024.
Col de la Loze used as a pass probably won't happen.

Joux-Plane with the same sequence as in 2006 could happen. Adding more climbs than that won't happen.
Madeleine as a decisive point is perhaps not likely, but could happen if the right town or ski resort will be willing to pay for the stage finish.

If they finish with the Alps next year, I guess one of the best of the more likely outcomes would be a Col de la Loze stage similar to 2020 followed by the mentioned Morzine stage as the two last mountain stages.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Yeah, but I prefer to theorize on stages that can actually happen.

A big Mercantour stage can happen, but as you said, more probably in 2024.
Col de la Loze used as a pass probably won't happen.

Joux-Plane with the same sequence as in 2006 could happen. Adding more climbs than that won't happen.
Madeleine as a decisive point is perhaps not likely, but could happen if the right town or ski resort will be willing to pay for the stage finish.

If they finish with the Alps next year, I guess one of the best of the more likely outcomes would be a Col de la Loze stage similar to 2020 followed by the mentioned Morzine stage as the two last mountain stages.

Are the rumours about Morzine via the Col de Joux Plaine real or is it just speculation? Given the fact that they spent a lot of time in the Ports de Soleil this year.

 

[Red Rick]

Nah, go full 1983 Morzine. Add the Glandon and Madeliene first, then do the climbs of the 2006 stage

Would love to see a stage where Pog and Vingegaard would be like 5 minutes down to Remco due to insanely long ITTs. Would be total carnage on that stage

This years Giro and Tour should both really be good indicatorz that the best place for a long ITT is in the first week

 

[OlavEH]

Are the rumours about Morzine via the Col de Joux Plaine real or is it just speculation? Given the fact that they spent a lot of time in the Ports de Soleil this year.

No, I haven't seen rumours about anything after the Grand Depart. And the fact they are not going to Bretagne.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

Hey people,

I red a lot here, and I have some things to add. I have no sources for that, but it was mentioned on the Tdf broadcasts:

• Col de la Loze summit finish in 2023
• Puy de Dome might be on the agenda for 2023, but nothing is guaranteed
• there are not two years on a row without the Tourmalet

 

[Ricco']

If they really need to have Tourmalet, they should change it up a bit.

Would like to see it like this. Is that first climb from Chèze who in the end joins the traditional climb to Luz-Ardiden passable by a race?

It would be that climb, followed by the descent from Luz-Ardiden to Luz-Saint-Sauveur, then Tourmalet and descent finish in La Mongie.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Would like to see it like this. Is that first climb from Chèze who in the end joins the traditional climb to Luz-Ardiden passable by a race?

Been used by Route d'Occitanie in 2017, so yes it is.

 

[VO2 Max]

So long as they do it better than in 1992 where the Pyrenees were more or less simply ignored save for a few hills on the way to Pau.

1992 is a special case because of the EU/Maastricht tribute.

But still I doubt a sequence of proper mountain stages in the first week. Probably 4 is a sprint stage to Bordeaux, 5 goes looking for wind to La Rochelle, 6 maybe something longer with some lumps to suit a breakaway (maybe Limoges area); 7 similar heading south through the Quercy national park in the Toulouse direction; 8 fingers crossed a longish ITT. Then first sunday probably a relatively quiet first mountain stage - ASO will probably think they hit the sweet spot this year with medium length stages with flat starts to get some powerful riders up the road, and altitude which makes things less predictable. You could imagine from somewhere south of Toulouse via Envarila to Arcalis, high but mostly gradual with long valleys where your big guys can consolidate a lead. Rest day up in Andorra and a similar-ish mountain stage along the Noguera Pallaresa valley and up to Puerto de la Bonaigua back toward France. You can finish after the Portillon descent or go up to Superbagnères, but it's the TdF so we're presumably going to Peyragudes as usual.

Then transition stages to the Alps bla bla, hopefully Alps from south-north. I'd have another flat start then Glandon & Madeleine with the same finish as that 1998 stage, then have a traditional northern Alps run through Saises, Aravis, Colombiere & Joux-plane.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

If we start with the Pyrenees late week 1 or early week 2: I doubt that they will go back to Andorra after two years. As I said, the Tourmalet should be pretty sure, the question is just how it will be fitted into a stage? Because on the west side of it, the famous roads have been used this year or 2021. Pretty much the same with the east side behind the Aspin or the Horquette. So maybe we indeed see the Tourmalet with one of those long uphill dead end roads at the end of the valleys (Cauterets, Vallée de Héas or Col de Tentes west of the Tourmalet; Lac de Cap-de-Long, Piau-Engaly, Pla d'Adet or Col de Portet east of the Aspin/Horquette d'Ancizan). Due to the fact, that it start in the Basque country, riding west to east through the pyrenees would make more sense.

For later:
The tour had a hard mountain stage in the Jura in 2017 and 2020. So 2023 could be the next turn, maybe as the finale. Also, the Col d'Izoard wasn't used since 2019.

 

[Red Rick]

If they finish on Loze again I just give up on TdF routes

 

[pman]

One thing I hope they once again include is a stage like the one that finished in Lausanne. I attended the stage and it was the perfect kind of stage to attend. It was split up into echelons, it had a fun non-mass sprint finish and it was still in a major, beautiful city a short train ride from Paris.

Those urban hill stages are perfect for fans. I shouldn't have to choose between renting a camper and hiking up a mountain or watching a 3 second sprint. The urban hill stages like the one in Lausanne are perfect. They're also fun on TV and spice up otherwise more boring sprint stages.

What's everyone's best bet for a good urban hill in 2023?

 

[jfazendeiro]

Time to bring back Mont du chat.

 

[OlavEH]

If we start with the Pyrenees late week 1 or early week 2: I doubt that they will go back to Andorra after two years. As I said, the Tourmalet should be pretty sure, the question is just how it will be fitted into a stage? Because on the west side of it, the famous roads have been used this year or 2021. Pretty much the same with the east side behind the Aspin or the Horquette. So maybe we indeed see the Tourmalet with one of those long uphill dead end roads at the end of the valleys (Cauterets, Vallée de Héas or Col de Tentes west of the Tourmalet; Lac de Cap-de-Long, Piau-Engaly, Pla d'Adet or Col de Portet east of the Aspin/Horquette d'Ancizan). Due to the fact, that it start in the Basque country, riding west to east through the pyrenees would make more sense.

Tourmalet can really be used in any way. As the first climb in a long mountain stage or as a MTF. Impossible to predict. The most likely thing for the Pyrenees is a stage ending in or close to Bagneres de Luchon/Saint Lary Soulan. That happens about every year. Then a stage west of that area (Tourmalet, Luz, Cauterets, descent finish) and/or a stage east of that. With Andorra last year and Foix this year, perhaps Plateau de Beille or Bonascre if they do something in the eastern Pyrenees.

 

[Fantastico]

Why has the Belles Filles become so prominent in recent years? They pay the most money to ASO? It bloody well sucks and I don’t recall it being raced so many times in the 90’s and early/mid 2000’s. Recently it seems like a yearly stage finish.

It's not only Belles Filles. In general, I hate it if the same routes and especially stage finishes are used every other year (which fortunately doesn't happen too often).

 

[BigCoward]

Nah, go full 1983 Morzine. Add the Glandon and Madeliene first, then do the climbs of the 2006 stage.
Would love to see a stage where Pog and Vingegaard would be like 5 minutes down to Remco due to insanely long ITTs. Would be total carnage on that stage

I can't see any realistic amount of TT that would result in those 2 dropping 5 mins to RE.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

Tourmalet can really be used in any way. As the first climb in a long mountain stage or as a MTF. Impossible to predict. The most likely thing for the Pyrenees is a stage ending in or close to Bagneres de Luchon/Saint Lary Soulan. That happens about every year. Then a stage west of that area (Tourmalet, Luz, Cauterets, descent finish) and/or a stage east of that. With Andorra last year and Foix this year, perhaps Plateau de Beille or Bonascre if they do something in the eastern Pyrenees.

Yeah, I agree that Beille or Bonascre/Ax-3-Domaines are good for next year, but especially the Plateau de Beille is very bad to combine with other climbs. Ax 3 Domaines would be better with this, most likely with the Col de Pailheres

 

[OlavEH]

Yeah, I agree that Beille or Bonascre/Ax-3-Domaines are good for next year, but especially the Plateau de Beille is very bad to combine with other climbs. Ax 3 Domaines would be better with this, most likely with the Col de Pailheres

Agreed. Pailheres - Bonascre is a good combo. Of plausible and probable mountain stages, this would probably be my first choice along with a Joux Plane-stage.

Also hope they can introduce something new or rarely used like they did with Spandelles and Granon this year. And not just a gimmick like paving a random and steep goat track on top of and already existing and used climb.

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

What's everyone's best bet for a good urban hill in 2023?

I have absoluetly no clue. I only really know Longwy and the Mur de Bretagne. Maybe the ramp they used in the 2017 Marseille TT

Also hope they can introduce something new or rarely used like they did with Spandelles and Granon this year.

Is the Col de Beyrède driveable?

 

[ashhutch1997]

I would really like it if we had some long 220km+ medium mountain stages like the one to Le Creusot last year.

 

[OlavEH]

Is the Col de Beyrède driveable?

A climb parallell to Aspin? How would that be used in a good way?

 

[Red Rick]

A climb parallell to Aspin? How would that be used in a good way?

I'm more interested in Le Sarrat de Bon it could fit neatly between Aspin and Tourmalet.

 

[Red Rick]

Agreed. Pailheres - Bonascre is a good combo. Of plausible and probable mountain stages, this would probably be my first choice along with a Joux Plane-stage.

Also hope they can introduce something new or rarely used like they did with Spandelles and Granon this year. And not just a gimmick like paving a random and steep goat track on top of and already existing and used climb.

Bonascre is perfectly suited to paving random and steep goat track on top of climb.

Unless I'm mistaken and the road is already paved way up there. It goes all the way to 2200m or so