Tour de France 2023 Tour de France, Stage 1: Bilbao - Bilbao, 182 km (Spain, Saturday, July 1)

[Valv.Piti]

Alaphilippe extremely underwhelming - so much for the good Dauphine. Had expected a lot more.

Van der Poel was about as expected when it got ridden hard. Tomorrow I could see him try an attack after Jaizkibel cause I dont think he wins in a sprint against Van Aert, but then again, Van Aert looked terrible on the sprint today.

 

[Nick2413]

Would be pretty cool to see Carapaz come back and win a stage after today. Hopefully he doesn’t abandon.

 

[Netserk]

Simon Yates was in ~25th position at the start of the steep section:

Okay, I totally missed that he had moved up when UAE started pacing again:

 

[Rackham]

There's two ways of looking at Jumbo's performance today:

Based on 'normal' cycling facts, today was pretty logical. Vingegaard marked Pog on terrain which isn't favorable to him (he gets mugged in a sprint versus Pog every time tbh). And behind him, his doms suffered to various degrees (& Kuss is not the rider to pull anyone back on the flat). So yeah, pretty standard stuff & no reason for concern.

But then there's an analysis based on the 2022 Tour where Van Aert & Jumbo absolutely atomized the race every single day. Just for sh*ts & giggles (see stage 4's demolition job for example). Based on how imperious & quite frankly obscenely invincible they collectively raced last year (even two men down in the third week), then today was a little reality check IMO.

Van Aert just doesn't have that little bit extra right now. Even though Pike might not be the best terrain to judge his performance on, he never really adhered to such constraints regarding the type of stage profile he's on in previous years anyway (i.e. small climbs, big climbs, flats, whatever, he would just drop the watts & smash everyone).

Roll on tomorrow for some more clues.

 

[Andy schleck]

Jumbo also lost time to G3 on the flat, really bad showing given their numbers. Vingegaard should have pushed on in retrospect.

There's no reason to Vingegaard push in the flat to chase yates. He just needs to care about pogacar.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Okay, I totally missed that he had moved up when UAE started pacing again:

Alaphilippe being in perfect position at that point then being nowhere near by the summit also makes painfully clear how far away he is from his former level. Good thing Soudal brought his near-fossilized buddy Devenyns to keep him happy, clearly going to do them a world of good this race.

 

[Andy schleck]

Maybe the co leader thing wasnt so far fetched..backup if Pog has a mishap ?

Also I wouldnt underestimate the twins

Simon had to close that gap on the climb so ran out of juice but equally as good imo..remember he was caught behind and couldnt follow Pog and co

When the hard mountains come, there will be no yates brothers. There will be just pogacar and vingegaard in the front. There's no such thing of co leaders to yates or kelderman. It will be a mano a mano. Everybody will lose a lot of minutes to pogacar and vingegaard in the mountains.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

There's no reason to Vingegaard push in the flat to chase yates. He just needs to care about pogacar.

Pushed on before Yates made it back, obviously...

 

[HelloDolly]

Good stage and everything, but to compare…:

LBL is 260k, 4200 to 4450 vertical meters, Remco won with averages of 41.2 and 41.4 kms/hr.

Today‘s hilly TdF stage was 180k, 3200 vertical meters, Adam Yates wins with 41.5 kms/hr.

I think we have to be careful. No need for too much euphoria: after all, the two strongest cyclists who ever rode a bike race on Basque soil did not sign in for this Tour: Evenepoel and Roglic.

I dare to claim that Adam Yates could not win any bike race in Basque Country, if Remco and Roglic signed in for the race.

Of course I‘m happy for Yates brothers, today - they both know very well that this was their chance, and they took it…

Can you please stop with the Remco would have done this or that ***
Its very old now and all your tweets are just an excuse to bring up Remco
Most riders who win are congratulated and not told that they wouldn't have won if so and so was at the race ...

Strongest isnt just about watts in cycling or even speed ...its many more things ...

I dont know that theye are the two strongest bike rider to ever ride in Basque country ..It could be argued that Pog and Vinge are better bike riders and then there are Valverde, Big Mig, Contador, etc

This fanatical need to put Remco in the middle of something and make him the strongest is ludicrous

 

[Andy schleck]

I wonder if Vingegaard was hard on the limit or if he didn't counter Pog because of Van Aert. He looked easy to me.

Between missing the Jumbo train on the bottom of Pike, not taking turns with Kelderman and Kuss, and then sprinting backwards, Van Aert failed spectacularly today

It's very easy to see when vingegaard is fine or not. When he is fine like today he doesn't do a "suffering face", when he is not good he does a "suffering face".

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Alaphilippe extremely underwhelming - so much for the good Dauphine. Had expected a lot more.

Van der Poel was about as expected when it got ridden hard. Tomorrow I could see him try an attack after Jaizkibel cause I dont think he wins in a sprint against Van Aert, but then again, Van Aert looked terrible on the sprint today.

Van Aert said he exploded with 200m to go.

Van der Poel said he was a on a normal day and he needed an extroardinary one. Tbh, he was on the top 10 seconds behind Van Aert. And ahead of Bernal, Pidcock, Alaph... If Jumbo didn't organize immediately he'd be in that group.

 

[HelloDolly]

When the hard mountains come, there will be no yates brothers. There will be just pogacar and vingegaard in the front. There's no such thing of co leaders to yates or kelderman. It will be a mano a mano. Everybody will lose a lot of minutes to pogacar and vingegaard in the mountains.

I dont think anyone mentioned Kelderman ??? But you use him to undermine my point on A Yates
Why cant Yates be co leader until such time as he isnt ...He can climb very well and maybe a good foil; for Jumbo if Vinge is proving too hard to crack

No one said Pog and Vinge are not top dogs but one has to be inventive to break Jumbo Visma

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Van der Poel said he was a on a normal day and he needed an extroardinary one. Tbh, he was on the top 10 seconds behind Van Aert. And ahead of Bernal, Pidcock, Alaph... If Jumbo didn't organize immediately he'd be in that group.

He was also out of position once again, but then again it's more extraordinary for Van der Poel to get his positioning right than for him to have insane legs, so maybe that's what he meant by extraordinary day.

 

[Netserk]

On the top of Pike:

Pogi, Vingegaard, Lafay

+5'' S. Yates, A. Yates, Skjelmose, Gaudu

+10'' Hindley

+14'' Rodriguez, Landa, Kelderman, Woods, Van Aert

+17'' Kuss, Pinot

+21'' Buchmann, O'Connor?, Crass

+23'' Grossshartner?

+25'' 4 riders including MvdP

 

[Valv.Piti]

The Ag2r rider must have been Gall, cause Connor was lost in da sauce.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Surely they didn't make Matteo Jorgenson, their best GC rider this year, wait for a clearly done-for Mas, causing him to lose 2 minutes 30. I must be hearing that wrong, sackable offence and banishment from the sport if true.

 

[KOM]

The fact that Remco Evenepoel is a bike rider is slowly but steadily destroying this forum for me and now im also feeding into it... a vicious circle indeed

 

[Netserk]

Alaphilippe: +47''

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I wonder if Vingegaard was hard on the limit or if he didn't counter Pog because of Van Aert. He looked easy to me.

Between missing the Jumbo train on the bottom of Pike, not taking turns with Kelderman and Kuss, and then sprinting backwards, Van Aert failed spectacularly today

Pogacar actually didn't attack hard on Pike at all and it was more like a continuation of very strong tempo by Yates. Vinge was in position to try his acceleration but maybe the pace was too strong and the climb too short for him. I think the presence of WVA may have affected Vinge a bit but his refusal to cooperate with Pog was more about not giving Pog the stage victory and 10 bonus seconds IMO.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Order over final KOM:
Pogačar, Vingegaard, Lafay
S. Yates, A. Yates, Skjelmose, Gaudu +6s
Hindley +11s
Rodriguez, Landa, Kelderman, Woods, Van Aert +14s
Kuss, Pinot +18s
———————————
Buchmann, Haig, Cras +22s
Majka +24s
Bardet, Madouas, Van der Poel, Aranburu +25s
Martin, Bilbao +29s
Van Gils (was close to Hindley and co. until late) +31s
Ciccone +33s
Bernal +34s
Gall, Dinham, Harper, Powless, Bettiol +36s
Pidcock +41s
~48 s Großschartner, Alaphilippe, Zimmermann, Strong, Halland Johannessen, Castroviejo, Berthet, Juanpe, LLS, Tejada, O‘Connor, Meintjes, Teuns

Last group not sorted, Times from GCN+ race replay

 

[Rackham]

Pogacar actually didn't attack hard on Pike at all and it was more like a continuation of very strong tempo by Yates. Vinge was in position to try his acceleration but maybe the pace was too strong and the climb too short for him. I think the presence of WVA may have affected Vinge a bit but his refusal to cooperate with Pog was more about not giving Pog the stage victory and 10 bonus seconds IMO.

Vinge needs to drop Pog in order to win the Tour. Meanwhile Pog can just follow wheels & grab bonus seconds.

The very fact Vinge doesn't want to cooperate because his sprint is worse puts him at a tactical disadvantage which I think too many people ignore. At some point Vinge needs to attack (& thus risk a counter attack).

It's what makes Pogačar such a difficult opponent to beat. I mean people can look at the route & ask themselves where Vingegaard is going to drop Pog... meanwhile from UAE's perspective they can ride pretty defensively. And the more time Vinge needs, the more aggressive he'll have to be.

Early days of course but today exposed some weakness in Jumbo in terms of dealing with Pog, Yates & also Van Aert (who is expected to win stages).

 

[SHAD0W93]

When the hard mountains come, there will be no yates brothers. There will be just pogacar and vingegaard in the front. There's no such thing of co leaders to yates or kelderman. It will be a mano a mano. Everybody will lose a lot of minutes to pogacar and vingegaard in the mountains.

All fun and games until Jumbo and Vinge continue to sink down the Yates coleader trap and Pog follows Vinge all around the race, Puritoing him at the line.

 

[Netserk]

Order over final KOM:
Pogačar, Vingegaard, Lafay
S. Yates, A. Yates, Skjelmose, Gaudu +6s
Hindley +11s
Rodriguez, Landa, Kelderman, Woods, Van Aert +14s
Kuss, Pinot +18s
———————————
Buchmann, Haig, Cras +22s
Majka +24s
Bardet, Madouas, Van der Poel, Aranburu +25s
Martin, Bilbao +29s
Van Gils (was close to Hindley and co. until late) +31s
Ciccone +33s
Bernal +34s
Gall, Dinham, Harper, Powless, Bettiol +36s
Pidcock +41s
~48 s Großschartner, Alaphilippe, Zimmermann, Strong, Halland Johannessen, Castroviejo, Berthet, Juanpe, LLS, Tejada, O‘Connor, Meintjes, Teuns

Last group not sorted, Times from GCN+ race replay

I'm really struggling with the Bahrain jerseys.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Vinge needs to drop Pog in order to win the Tour. Meanwhile Pog can just follow wheels & grab bonus seconds.

The very fact Vinge doesn't want to cooperate because his sprint is worse puts him at a tactical disadvantage which I think too many people ignore. At some point Vinge needs to attack (& thus risk a counter attack).

It's what makes Pogačar such a difficult opponent to beat. I mean people can look at the route & ask themselves where Vingegaard is going to drop Pog... meanwhile from UAE's perspective they can ride pretty defensively. And the more time Vinge needs, the more aggressive he'll have to be.

Early days of course but today exposed some weakness in Jumbo in terms of dealing with Pog, Yates & also Van Aert (who is expected to win stages).

Agreed, this time it's clear that Pog has to follow the wheel of one guy for the whole race (as there's no Primoz to cause chaos) so it's tactically easier. Yates may give some tactical advantage as well but it's too early to say. Vinge will attack hard for sure and Pog has to be ready for that.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I'm really struggling with the Bahrain jerseys.

I thought that was AG2R as well, but I had one of their riders too many, so I eventually figured it out.