Tour de France 2023 Tour de France, Stage 1: Bilbao - Bilbao, 182 km (Spain, Saturday, July 1)

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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Netserk said:
I'm more worried for UAE to sink down in the co-leader trap and thus not use Yates as a helper.
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Kinda funny considering the co leader trick looks like the only thing Pog has over Vingegaard

I fear today bodes really badly for the Pyrenees tbh. Vingo and Pog have the teams to stop each other from getting in the breakaway, and I don't see Vingegaard or Pogacar launching Tourmalet without teammates ahead.
 
R

Riek s

Jun 24, 2010
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Andy schleck said:
When the hard mountains come, there will be no yates brothers. There will be just pogacar and vingegaard in the front. There's no such thing of co leaders to yates or kelderman. It will be a mano a mano. Everybody will lose a lot of minutes to pogacar and vingegaard in the mountains.
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Even in that scenario Yates has a role to play. Vingegaard must ride, Pog does not. In the previous edition it was Pog who tried everything and Vingegaard who took advantage of that.
If yates is ahead and Vingegaard attacks... Pog in his wheel he either:
a) stops riding and yates comes back.
b) keeps riding with pog on his wheel (which he hasn't done once, not even on a flat)

I wouldn't discount Yates usefullness so early. (especially if he has close to 30second gift).
Ofcourse it is still UAE... tactically we have seen some weird *** from them.
 
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bNator

bNator

Apr 14, 2021
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Rackham said:
Vinge needs to drop Pog in order to win the Tour. Meanwhile Pog can just follow wheels & grab bonus seconds.

The very fact Vinge doesn't want to cooperate because his sprint is worse puts him at a tactical disadvantage which I think too many people ignore. At some point Vinge needs to attack (& thus risk a counter attack).

It's what makes Pogačar such a difficult opponent to beat. I mean people can look at the route & ask themselves where Vingegaard is going to drop Pog... meanwhile from UAE's perspective they can ride pretty defensively. And the more time Vinge needs, the more aggressive he'll have to be.

Early days of course but today exposed some weakness in Jumbo in terms of dealing with Pog, Yates & also Van Aert (who is expected to win stages).
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Not only that - if Yates gets a couple of more seconds (enough that Vinge won’t be able to grab them back in TT), Jonas will have to drop Yates as well. And on that particular stage it will be Pog who can sit back and relax. Whenever Jonas stops pulling, Pog just waits. So Jonas will have to be pulling… And on that stage it will be dangerous for Vinge. It all depends on how strong Yates is and if he can get a few more seconds in the next couple of stages…
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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A minute after the top, Skjelmose and Simon Yates had bridged across, Adam Yates and Gaudu not.

rs4UTsmM_o.png


The attack happens shortly afterwards while they show a meaningless replay instead. In 10 seconds Adam Yates goes from being gapped, to being alone in front with a gap.

RXUfNGZu_o.png
 
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DNP-Old

DNP-Old

Aug 6, 2014
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Guys, guys, guys. During the race I posted about De Cauwer saying that Vingegaard should have worked for Van Aert. Well, it gets worse:

www.hln.be

ANALYSE NA AANKOMST. Michel Wuyts ziet gemiste kans: “Vingegaard vertikte het om over te nemen voor Van Aert, ik snap dat niet”

<a href="https://www.hln.be/tour-de-france/droomstart-voor-team-uae-adam-yates-wint-tweelinggevecht-en-pakt-eerste-ritzege-in-tour-de-france-van-aert-pas-elfde~a1c27b9b/" target="_blank">Adam Yates heeft het tweelinggevecht om de eerste gele trui gewonnen</a>. <a...
www.hln.be www.hln.be

“Van Aert likes to be at the service of the team. Leader Vingegaard apparently likes that much less. He refused to take over, I don't understand that. “Van Aert likes to be at the service of the team. He is a team player. The leader par excellence is apparently much less so. I have to say that Vingegaard disappoints me a bit today”.
Click to expand...

This isn't in the heat of the moment, this isn't right after the finish. This is AT LEAST an hour after the race.
 
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Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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SHAD0W93 said:
Fair but Adam at least showed with Bernal that he was willing to do the 1-2 attacking. Only way I can see Adam wanting to ride for himself more is if inside the team they know the injury is hampering Pog more.
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Yates is a team player, through & through. The recent Tour de Romandie showed that when he got on the radio & was seen clearly "asking" his team whether he should go for it on Thyon when Ayuso was dropping.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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DNP-Old said:
Guys, guys, guys. During the race I posted about De Cauwer saying that Vingegaard should have worked for Van Aert. Well, it gets worse:

www.hln.be

ANALYSE NA AANKOMST. Michel Wuyts ziet gemiste kans: “Vingegaard vertikte het om over te nemen voor Van Aert, ik snap dat niet”

<a href="https://www.hln.be/tour-de-france/droomstart-voor-team-uae-adam-yates-wint-tweelinggevecht-en-pakt-eerste-ritzege-in-tour-de-france-van-aert-pas-elfde~a1c27b9b/" target="_blank">Adam Yates heeft het tweelinggevecht om de eerste gele trui gewonnen</a>. <a...
www.hln.be www.hln.be



This isn't in the heat of the moment, this isn't right after the finish. This is AT LEAST an hour after the race.
Click to expand...
I dare say that Danish commentators were saner than that after Ventoux in '21.
 
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bNator

bNator

Apr 14, 2021
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DNP-Old said:
Guys, guys, guys. During the race I posted about De Cauwer saying that Vingegaard should have worked for Van Aert. Well, it gets worse:

www.hln.be

ANALYSE NA AANKOMST. Michel Wuyts ziet gemiste kans: “Vingegaard vertikte het om over te nemen voor Van Aert, ik snap dat niet”

<a href="https://www.hln.be/tour-de-france/droomstart-voor-team-uae-adam-yates-wint-tweelinggevecht-en-pakt-eerste-ritzege-in-tour-de-france-van-aert-pas-elfde~a1c27b9b/" target="_blank">Adam Yates heeft het tweelinggevecht om de eerste gele trui gewonnen</a>. <a...
www.hln.be www.hln.be



This isn't in the heat of the moment, this isn't right after the finish. This is AT LEAST an hour after the race.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t that sound awfully familiar to Roglic fans?😁
 
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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

Jul 7, 2013
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Red Rick said:
Kinda funny considering the co leader trick looks like the only thing Pog has over Vingegaard

I fear today bodes really badly for the Pyrenees tbh. Vingo and Pog have the teams to stop each other from getting in the breakaway, and I don't see Vingegaard or Pogacar launching Tourmalet without teammates ahead.
Click to expand...

It bodes badly for JV more because Vinge is more expected to attack Pog on such a long and high climb like Tourmalet.
 
QueenStagiaire

QueenStagiaire

Jun 30, 2022
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DNP-Old said:
Guys, guys, guys. During the race I posted about De Cauwer saying that Vingegaard should have worked for Van Aert. Well, it gets worse:

www.hln.be

ANALYSE NA AANKOMST. Michel Wuyts ziet gemiste kans: “Vingegaard vertikte het om over te nemen voor Van Aert, ik snap dat niet”

<a href="https://www.hln.be/tour-de-france/droomstart-voor-team-uae-adam-yates-wint-tweelinggevecht-en-pakt-eerste-ritzege-in-tour-de-france-van-aert-pas-elfde~a1c27b9b/" target="_blank">Adam Yates heeft het tweelinggevecht om de eerste gele trui gewonnen</a>. <a...
www.hln.be www.hln.be



This isn't in the heat of the moment, this isn't right after the finish. This is AT LEAST an hour after the race.
Click to expand...
And he won‘t ride for Van Aert at the World Championships either, almost as selfish as selfish Van Aert
 
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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

Jul 7, 2013
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kn0s said:
It's going to be tricky for Jonas to manage Yates. It's a balancing act of taking him seriously but keeping in mind he got slapped with 2:20 in the Dauphiné. He doesn't want to do a Pogačar.
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Too early to say if Yates will be a tactical advantage: he has to be in great form or perform a suicidal attack in the first part of the race. After Vinge goes thermonuclear for the first time it's likely that only Pog will stay in contention (or not, if he's not strong enough).
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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Rackham said:
Vinge needs to drop Pog in order to win the Tour. Meanwhile Pog can just follow wheels & grab bonus seconds.

The very fact Vinge doesn't want to cooperate because his sprint is worse puts him at a tactical disadvantage which I think too many people ignore. At some point Vinge needs to attack (& thus risk a counter attack).

It's what makes Pogačar such a difficult opponent to beat. I mean people can look at the route & ask themselves where Vingegaard is going to drop Pog... meanwhile from UAE's perspective they can ride pretty defensively. And the more time Vinge needs, the more aggressive he'll have to be.

Early days of course but today exposed some weakness in Jumbo in terms of dealing with Pog, Yates & also Van Aert (who is expected to win stages).
Click to expand...

It's the same debate as last year, where Pogacar kept gobbling up seconds the first 10 days, and everyone was doubting if Vingegaard could ever drop him.

Vingegaard already knows he can't drop Pogacar on short sharp climbs, or pass him in a sprint, so he's not going to spend energy trying - he's biding his time for the long climbs in the big mountains, that's where he knows he may have a shot, and that is what he is saving energy towards.

Of course, if Pogacar makes a mistake some day, or has an off day, he'll be ready to pounce, but outside of that it will be the big long final climbs that matter.
 
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Devil's Elbow

Devil's Elbow

Sep 20, 2017
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Red Rick said:
Kinda funny considering the co leader trick looks like the only thing Pog has over Vingegaard

I fear today bodes really badly for the Pyrenees tbh. Vingo and Pog have the teams to stop each other from getting in the breakaway, and I don't see Vingegaard or Pogacar launching Tourmalet without teammates ahead.
Click to expand...
Today changes nothing for the Pyrenees because major action on Tourmalet is and has always been a pipe dream.
 
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M

memyselfandI

Jun 4, 2009
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Skijumper Roglic fan said:
I dare to claim that Adam Yates could not win any bike race in Basque Country, if Remco and Roglic signed in for the race.
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We don't know because they are @home and there's a race going on right here. I've heard from trusted friends in current WT teams that it's not always so simple. I also dare to agree what Bruyneel said that Remco is a World Champion but not in tactics. ;)
 
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Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

Apr 10, 2019
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DNP-Old said:
Guys, guys, guys. During the race I posted about De Cauwer saying that Vingegaard should have worked for Van Aert. Well, it gets worse:

www.hln.be

ANALYSE NA AANKOMST. Michel Wuyts ziet gemiste kans: “Vingegaard vertikte het om over te nemen voor Van Aert, ik snap dat niet”

<a href="https://www.hln.be/tour-de-france/droomstart-voor-team-uae-adam-yates-wint-tweelinggevecht-en-pakt-eerste-ritzege-in-tour-de-france-van-aert-pas-elfde~a1c27b9b/" target="_blank">Adam Yates heeft het tweelinggevecht om de eerste gele trui gewonnen</a>. <a...
www.hln.be www.hln.be



This isn't in the heat of the moment, this isn't right after the finish. This is AT LEAST an hour after the race.
Click to expand...
Lol, my impression is almost the opposite.
 
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