2nd at Le Tour vs 1st at Il Giro.

[McLovin]

It is often accompanied with cracking at the first HC climb.

Maybe beacuse the race it's different, the peloton is more nervous, more crazy (see all the falls in first 8-9 stages this year). And what makes Tour climbs to be hard are not their gradient or length but the way they are climbed. A short climb like Bonascre can be more damaging than a Ventoux in Paris Nice or Dauphine, without a doubt. Some people knew this and they preffered to focus on Vuelta or Giro ( Anton, Heras, Simoni, Di Luca maybe even Menchov).

 

[airstream]

As opposed to riders who sat out the Giro and concentrated their total effort towards the Tour.
That's why the double is so, so difficult in the modern era.
Look no further than Evans in 2010 and Contador, this season.
Potentially the two strongest GT riders in the world, who were not strong enough at these respective Tours.
This makes your evaluation an assumption.

Probably any of these evaluations are just assumptions. I think the competition itsellf intensified in sport in general for the last 10-15 years. Frankly I expected neither Evans nor Contador to finish in top-10. But they're the Tour riders initially, only unforeseen circumstances made them to do the Giro.

Maybe beacuse the race it's different, the peloton is more nervous, more crazy (see all the falls in first 8-9 stages this year). And what makes Tour climbs to be hard are not their gradient or length but the way they are climbed. A short climb like Bonascre can be more damaging than a Ventoux in Paris Nice or Dauphine, without a doubt. Some people knew this and they preffered to focus on Vuelta or Giro ( Anton, Heras, Simoni, Di Luca maybe even Menchov).

Sure all that affects very seriously. Nibali said he hadn't liked the Tour due to a wild boom despite on his 6th place. Perhaps all riders barring Andy choose races, that suit them most

 

[The Hitch]

If he wins the TDF at least once and comes repeatedly 2nd i would say 2nd at the TDF

Contador said in 2008 that winning Il Giro would be bigger than another Tour.

I agree with this. Diversity on palmares is a big thing.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

There is no comparison to be had here as the best tennis players can and do peak for all 4 grand slams, whilst many of the best GT riders can and do only peak for the TDF. Wimbledon is of course the most prestigious, but a Wimbledon champion is not necessarily better than a winner of any other slam. In fact in more recent times it is probably more difficult to win the French Open given that more players like and specialise on the clay surface than grass.

A Tour champion can't necessarily win a typical mountainous Giro, either. Wiggins has a better chance to top-3 in the Tour than in the Giro, for example. The field may be weaker, but it still provides a different challenge.

 

[El Pistolero]

Contador said in 2008 that winning Il Giro would be bigger than another Tour.

I agree with this. Diversity on palmares is a big thing.

Contador was ****ed at that time though.

I remember watching one of the Trofeo's of Mallorca in 2008(think Gilbert won that particular Trofeo) where Contador attacked and told the camera to come close to him. Then he yelled something in Spanish with an angry voice because Astana wasn't allowed to ride the Tour.

 

[theyoungest]

A Tour champion can't necessarily win a typical mountainous Giro, either. Wiggins has a better chance to top-3 in the Tour than in the Giro, for example. The field may be weaker, but it still provides a different challenge.

The Wiggins who finished 3d at the Vuelta could certainly do the same in the Giro... he got 5th on Angliru, which is harder than any Giro climb.

 

[Boeing]

A win at the Giro would make for a more prestigious career. But a Giro win isn't more prestigious than a Tour win if that is what you are implying.

 

[El Pistolero]

A Tour champion can't necessarily win a typical mountainous Giro, either. Wiggins has a better chance to top-3 in the Tour than in the Giro, for example. The field may be weaker, but it still provides a different challenge.

That's what I like. I think the Giro should remain this mountainous and the Tour more balanced. The Vuelta should find something that makes it stick out like the other 2 GTs because IMO there's no point in having 3 similar big races.


==

Actually funny that Merckx said this. You might not know this, but Merckx was pressured by his team sponsor to ride the Giro instead of the Tour. For Faema/Molteni the Giro was more important than the Tour.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

The Wiggins who finished 3d at the Vuelta could certainly do the same in the Giro... he got 5th on Angliru, which is harder than any Giro climb.

Hell no. Mountain stages in the Giro feature more than one climb.

Not to mention those windy false flat sections on other climbs where Froome and Wiggins destroyed the field. That's not climbing. Also, the Vuelta featured a long flat ITT.


Oh yeah, going by your logic Valverde could have top 2'd at the Giro. lol

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

That's what I like. I think the Giro should remain this mountainous and the Tour more balanced. The Vuelta should find something that makes it stick out like the other 2 GTs because IMO there's no point in having 3 similar big races.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

this is sad..the last big try by II Pirata

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMYP6NL045Y&feature=related

 

[Descender]

How is this even a question?

Hell, even 1st at the Vuelta is better than 2nd at the Tour. Same for winning a monument IMHO.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Contador said in 2008 that winning Il Giro would be bigger than another Tour.

I agree with this. Diversity on palmares is a big thing.

just wondering, do you prefer 7 tours or 3 tour 2 Vueltas and 2 Giros?

 

[maltiv]

Hell, even 1st at the Vuelta is better than 2nd at the Tour.

Disagree. I can guarantee you that Andy Schleck got more publicity for his 2nd in TDF than Cobo got for his Vuelta win. The Vuelta is not nearly as prestigious as the Giro.

 

[El Pistolero]

Disagree. I can guarantee you that Andy Schleck got more publicity for his 2nd in TDF than Cobo got for his Vuelta win. The Vuelta is not nearly as prestigious as the Giro.

Yeah, as the laughing stock of the world.

 

[Nick C.]

this is sad..the last big try by II Pirata

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMYP6NL045Y&feature=related

I always wondered why Simoni kept chasing him down or why they didn't sort of let him go and do their own race.

 

[El Pistolero]

I always wondered why Simoni kept chasing him down or why they didn't sort of let him go and do their own race.

Because it's called a cycling race.

 

[jens_attacks]

I always wondered why Simoni kept chasing him down or why they didn't sort of let him go and do their own race.

the last attack of il pirata was on cascata del toce i think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20N04Rxw34

gibo said him and pantani were never friends,but rivals.
that wasn't the age of holding hands to the finish line and kissing on the mouth after the finish.
martinelli(then saeco's director not anymore pantani's) shouted in gibo's ears all those km in the cascata del toce stage to let pantani go,let pantani go,let him win the stage.
gibo didn't listen,why?because there was also a pantani age when he used to ridicule them all,giro 1999,il pirata massacred all of them in every mountain stage.the rumours were that he might have attacked even on the mortirolo,the stage after campiglio where everything ended.
i don't even think pantani needed a gift,champions don't need that(see his reaction after ventoux 2000).nobody knows if that victory could have change his tragic destiny...

 

[El Pistolero]

the last attack of il pirata was on cascata del toce i think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20N04Rxw34

gibo said him and pantani were never friends,but rivals.
that wasn't the age of holding hands to the finish line and kissing on the mouth after the finish.
martinelli(then saeco's director not anymore pantani's) shouted in gibo's ears all those km in the cascata del toce stage to let pantani go,let pantani go,let him win the stage.
gibo didn't listen,why?because there was also a pantani age when he used to ridicule them all,giro 1999,il pirata massacred all of them in every mountain stage.the rumours were that he might have attacked even on the mortirolo,the stage after campiglio where everything ended.
i don't even think pantani needed a gift,champions don't need that(see his reaction after ventoux 2000).nobody knows if that victory could have change his tragic destiny...

That reminds of the Ronde van Vlaanderen in 2003...

 

[Tank Engine]

A win in the Giro will be remembered for longer. Hence, I would say that Andy should go for the Giro, because he has a real chance of winning there, while he might podium in France.

 

[The Hitch]

The Wiggins who finished 3d at the Vuelta could certainly do the same in the Giro... he got 5th on Angliru, which is harder than any Giro climb.

Other than Zoncolan

And there are about 5 or 6 other Giro climbs which come close to the difficulty of Angiliru.

Its 1 thing to do Angiliru one day, its another to have 5 mountains on 1 stage, coming the day after Zoncolan which was the day after Grossglockner.

What Giro do you think Wiggins could podium? 2011? your avin a laugh.

 

[Nick C.]

Because it's called a cycling race.

But Simoni was crushing it by then and there was no need to chase down someone 10 mintues behind or at least lead the chase. It seemed very petty. I guess I preferred the Indurain mentality of the maganimous king even though he is before my time.

 

[airstream]

I think any climb with the average gradient over 8% may become a stumbling block for Wiggins, not to mention about Mortirolo and the others. He's a totally unique type of the GT rider. I don't remember any other climber with such physical characteristics. As for the other Tour riders, perhaps, all of them could have succeed in the Giro.

 

[jens_attacks]

But Simoni was crushing it by then and there was no need to chase down someone 10 mintues behind or at least lead the chase. It seemed very petty. I guess I preferred the Indurain mentality of the maganimous king even though he is before my time.

because of the revenge,it's an animal instinct in all of us.also in the same giro 2003,gibo attacked and dropped pantani and all the others on alpe di pampeago in EXACTLY the same spot where pantani flew away in 1999. just to show them all who is the new king.
gibo was an old-school guy of the 30's,not good to mess with those kind of fellas no doubt

 

[Nick C.]

because of the revenge,it's an animal instinct in all of us.also in the same giro 2003,gibo attacked and dropped pantani and all the others on alpe di pampeago in EXACTLY the same spot where pantani flew away in 1999. just to show them all who is the new king.
gibo was an old-school guy of the 30's,not good to mess with those kind of fellas no doubt

That's kinda what I suspected that somehow somewhere Pantani must have ****ed him off.