34 arrested in Spain

[Oldman]

Good information.

Also. What are the precise benefits of Clen while given to Beef Cattle, and/or other types as illustrated in your previous posts?

Not to attempt to tie two seemingly unrelated things together but the Spanish reaction to drugs and livestock is probably more important to them than cheating cyclists. Jump over to Novitsky and internet purchase and international distribution of unregulated, counterfeit drugs and you see why these countries will take it seriously.
They don't care if Lance and Alberto fall over dead. They care if large food supplies and greater populations face a risk and will spend money to investigate.

 

[bigloco]

Good information.

Also. What are the precise benefits of Clen while given to Beef Cattle, and/or other types as illustrated in your previous posts?

I wouldn't know Clen from (as my dad would say) a good grade of apple butter.

That said, it doesn't really matter I asked dad if he'd ever heard of it/heard of anyone using it and he thought it was a steroid that makes them bigger-- increases lean mass without fattening them up. Just anectdotally, he thought it was something they put in feed during the last couple weeks before selling...something that would be done in a feed lot.

I wanted to hear what a rancher "knew" of it...and how far off he might be. He's pretty in tune with current cattle trends and works with show bulls quite a bit but hasn't heard of anyone using it for over 10 years. Personally, its inconceivable to think of administering Clen to a cattle operation like we had (pretty much open range) though it could be possible in a feed lot situation and I would say that it might be even more possible in a show bull situation where they're getting sold for alot of cash and where it would be administered differently...

 

[Oldman]

I wouldn't know Clen from (as my dad would say) a good grade of apple butter.

That said, it doesn't really matter I asked dad if he'd ever heard of it/heard of anyone using it and he thought it was a steroid that makes them bigger-- increases lean mass without fattening them up. Just anectdotally, he thought it was something they put in feed during the last couple weeks before selling...something that would be done in a feed lot.

I wanted to hear what a rancher "knew" of it...and how far off he might be. He's pretty in tune with current cattle trends and works with show bulls quite a bit but hasn't heard of anyone using it for over 10 years. Personally, its inconceivable to think of administering Clen to a cattle operation like we had (pretty much open range) though it could be possible in a feed lot situation and I would say that it might be even more possible in a show bull situation where they're getting sold for alot of cash and where it would be administered differently...

And in those circumstances it is more for the appearance of the bull my cattle raising friends would suggest. Feed lots find many other things to feed them now that are legal and more effective.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Good information.

Also. What are the precise benefits of Clen while given to Beef Cattle, and/or other types as illustrated in your previous posts?

Makes the stud bull ride faster.......(i'll show myself out)

 

[Old School]

Chill out

Seriously, debating this topic is all cool, but when folks start insulting each other..."dumb...dummy", that makes this forum uncool.

Moderators needs to cut that type of stuff...soon.

Be easy folks.

 

[scribe]

Seriously, debating this topic is all cool, but when folks start insulting each other..."dumb...dummy", that makes this forum uncool.

Moderators needs to cut that type of stuff...soon.

Be easy folks.

You must be new around here. Ad Hominem is an acceptable form of vernacular.

 

[scribe]

Makes the stud bull ride faster.......(i'll show myself out)

So if this beef carcus shows up, and there is only one testical.... It is likely either Contador consumed his testical OR it is proof that Ferarri administered the clen to the bull.

 

[thorny59]

All is well. AC was a victim; Spanish Govt. Saves the day

Big investigation to find drug cheats. happens to be a few small time athletes and farmers. AC is a victim of these mean drug pushers! Thank you Spain for getting to the bottom Of this grave error on your Champion.

 

[Oldman]

Big investigation to find drug cheats. happens to be a few small time athletes and farmers. AC is a victim of these mean drug pushers! Thank you Spain for getting to the bottom Of this grave error on your Champion.

Sorry, this doesn't simplify Conta's case.

 

[ferryman]

I feel I am missing something here. The bust is in the Canaries. Has there been anything about the distribution? That's how drugs work folks. Produced in X and distributed in ABC..XYZ. Most probably in this case mainland Spain

As for cattle farming, bull breeding etc, the number of experts this forum turns up on on these or any other non pure cycling matters is just wonderous

 

[Oldman]

I feel I am missing something here. The bust is in the Canaries. Has there been anything about the distribution? That's how drugs work folks. Produced in X and distributed in ABC..XYZ. Most probably in this case mainland Spain

As for cattle farming, bull breeding etc, the number of experts this forum turns up on on these or any other non pure cycling matters is just wonderous

You can get all you want to know from one season of inseminating cows and one season of calving. No thanks, too much mucus.

 

[Altitude]

Seriously, debating this topic is all cool, but when folks start insulting each other..."dumb...dummy", that makes this forum uncool.

Moderators needs to cut that type of stuff...soon.

Be easy folks.

Yeah.. calling someone "dummy" is really uncalled for

 

[auscyclefan94]

I don't see how it is logistically possible for the meat to come from tenerife but it is spain we are talking about here.

 

[ferryman]

You can get all you want to know from one season of inseminating cows

You have my utmost respect Oldman Now back on topic..

 

[HoustonHammer]

Seriously, debating this topic is all cool, but when folks start insulting each other..."dumb...dummy", that makes this forum uncool.

Moderators needs to cut that type of stuff...soon.

Be easy folks.

This forum was born uncool.

 

[Oldman]

This forum was born uncool.

If you've been here long enough to know that then you could be part of the problem.

 

[PotentialPro]

I want to post another interesting note or thought...

With this really poor economy, many state run services are limited, or probably not even done. Where I live, the state weights and measures dept is supposed to test anything from scales in supermarkets to gas pumps to make sure they are measuring correctly. They have hundreds of thousands of items to test, with a skeleton crew. Many things go untested for years.

What kind of money does Spain spend, or many other nations for that matter, in regards to chemicals in meats and the like? How much actually slips through the inspection processes, and are they not more looking for parasites, and other low quality or spoiled items? I bet that it is a fraction of 1% that get thorough testing which is by no means enough to determine the amount of Clen used in all meat produced. It took the horse dieing prior to reaching the finish line in the Canaries to even get tipped of that Clen was being used on the animals there.

 

[Darryl Webster]

The word is ubiquitous :
adjective
existing or being everywhere, esp. at the same time; omnipresent: ubiquitous fog; ubiquitous little ants.

 

[HoustonHammer]

If you've been here long enough to know that then you could be part of the problem.

Ahhh. Hoist with my own petard.

 

[HoustonHammer]

I want to post another interesting note or thought...

With this really poor economy, many state run services are limited, or probably not even done. Where I live, the state weights and measures dept is supposed to test anything from scales in supermarkets to gas pumps to make sure they are measuring correctly. They have hundreds of thousands of items to test, with a skeleton crew. Many things go untested for years.

What kind of money does Spain spend, or many other nations for that matter, in regards to chemicals in meats and the like? How much actually slips through the inspection processes, and are they not more looking for parasites, and other low quality or spoiled items? I bet that it is a fraction of 1% that get thorough testing which is by no means enough to determine the amount of Clen used in all meat produced. It took the horse dieing prior to reaching the finish line in the Canaries to even get tipped of that Clen was being used on the animals there.

I hear what you're saying about budgets and priorities, but that statement is just wrong.

My Spanish is not too good, but I looked on a government website, and it appeared that there are about 6 million head of cattle in Spain right now. Using that as a base, and saying that you wanted to find out what percentage of Spanish cattle had Clen in their systems with an accuracy of plus/minus 1%, 19 times out of 20 (i.e. a 1% confidence interval and 95% confidence level), you would need to test just a bit fewer than 10,000 head. That's a bit less than 0.2% of the population (i.e. a fraction of 1%).

If you were willing to accept an accuracy of +/- 3%, the required sample size would fall to about 1000 head, or 0.02% of the population.
This is late high-school or early college level statistics. A good cheater site for making these estimates can be found here.

Furthermore, in practice you'd probably only be testing the part of the population that was passing through the slaughterhouse, which would again reduce the required sample size somewhat.

Does the Spanish government have the funds to test that many cattle considering the economic downturn? I have no idea.

 

[Oldman]

Ahhh. Hoist with my own petard.

Aye mate. We all be pirates on this vessel.

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

Let me help you and the rest of the Clentador fans out there, which apparently includes Andrew Hood over at Velosnooze

(http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...rol-ring-used-in-horses-livestock_147239?news)

1.) The Grand Canary Islands are a 3 hour plane flight from Spain and 3 days by ship. It is very unlikely that beef from cattle on the island chain is exported to mainland Spain where cattle ranches are plentiful on far cheaper land. It would be the equivalent of the Virgin Islands exporting beef to the state of Texas.

2.) In order for Clentador to use this as a defense he would in fact have to trace his "cut of meat" to this exact cattle rancher who was arrested. We both know that's not going to happen. As of right now, Clentador doesn't seem to want to even divulge where he got the meat because he knows journalists would go back there, buy some meat, and have it tested. And we all know what those test results would show.

3.) I couldn't help but notice a cyclist was also busted in this sting, and we both know that Clentador is fond of training in Tenerife Norde in the Canary Islands. I find it hilarious that Andrew Hood doesn't think this is actually evidence that will go against Clentador, since it shows that there is a clenbuterol underground where Clentador is known to frequent for training.

4.) If Clentador's case is about contaminated beef related to this Canary island case, it would seem to me that he ate contaminated meat at the Canary Islands, and then withdrew 1 liter of blood, which when later infused during the Tour de France caused him to test positive. Other than that, I don't see how you link a contaminated herd of cattle in the Canary Islands with a "cut of meat" located 1,000 miles away near the French border.

I don't care how you Pro Tour swallowers cut this side of beef, it doesn't do Jack for Clentador. The guy is a major league doper.

oh boy, you hate Contador. How about Armstrong ?

 

[auscyclefan94]

oh boy, you hate Contador. How about Armstrong ?

So stating facts about something is hating?

 

[icefire]

I hear what you're saying about budgets and priorities, but that statement is just wrong.

My Spanish is not too good, but I looked on a government website, and it appeared that there are about 6 million head of cattle in Spain right now. Using that as a base, and saying that you wanted to find out what percentage of Spanish cattle had Clen in their systems with an accuracy of plus/minus 1%, 19 times out of 20 (i.e. a 1% confidence interval and 95% confidence level), you would need to test just a bit fewer than 10,000 head. That's a bit less than 0.2% of the population (i.e. a fraction of 1%).

If you were willing to accept an accuracy of +/- 3%, the required sample size would fall to about 1000 head, or 0.02% of the population.
This is late high-school or early college level statistics. A good cheater site for making these estimates can be found here.

Furthermore, in practice you'd probably only be testing the part of the population that was passing through the slaughterhouse, which would again reduce the required sample size somewhat.

Does the Spanish government have the funds to test that many cattle considering the economic downturn? I have no idea.

A press release from the European Commision's directorate for health and consumer policy stated that Spain had tested more than 19000 samples in 2008 and 2009.

 

[El Pistolero]

So stating facts about something is hating?

He's not stating facts. Contador never said the meat came from the canary islands. All this news just shows people are wrong when they say it's impossible that farmers use Clen on their cattle in Spain. It's still happening in that crap country. And it should be no surprise in a country that has unemployment rates of over the 25% and that's still stuck in middle ages compared to some other European countries(as a matter of speech, Spain in the middle ages was actually very advanced, but that's besides the matter.).