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If someone is labelled as a "specialist" I would expect him being good at that .... the question rather is, if you can be a "specialist" in many disciplines .... whereas I would say Sep Vanmarcke or Zdenek Stybar are "cobbled race specialists" and quite average in any other race, "allrounders" like Gilbert, Sagan, Van Avermaet or even Terpstra are at least as good on cobbles and have a say in other races as well ...hrotha said:I don't know why so many people think that "specialist" means "good at something".
Valgren abandoned three times in LBL lol. This year he rode mostly Flemish classics, so it's obvious what he is. He's quite all-round tho, like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA. AGR is basically Flanders without the cobbles. It has more in common with the cobbled classics than the Ardennes classics. When has a hilly classic specialist ever won a cobbled classic in recent times lol? I can find plenty of examples of the opposite however. U23 results mean little in the pro ranks btw, Boonen was second once in U-23 LBL.Anderis said:I guess it's hard to deal with that cobbled classic specialists are getting beaten in cobbled races by hilly classic specialists so you consider everyone who has ever done anything worth of notice in cobbled races a cobbled classic specialist completely ignoring what they had done in other types of races for years before they raced cobbled races seriously for the first time.
All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.Blanco said:I'm wondering is Nibali a cobbled classic specialist? Or he needs another year to become one![]()
Agreed it is quite obvious what he is. A hilly classic specialist, who is good on the cobbles aswell.El Pistolero said:Valgren abandoned three times in LBL lol. This year he rode mostly Flemish classics, so it's obvious what he is. He's quite all-round tho, like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA. AGR is basically Flanders without the cobbles. It has more in common with the cobbled classics than the Ardennes classics. When has a hilly classic specialist ever won a cobbled classic in recent times lol? I can find plenty of examples of the opposite however. U23 results mean little in the pro ranks btw, Boonen was second once in U-23 LBL.Anderis said:I guess it's hard to deal with that cobbled classic specialists are getting beaten in cobbled races by hilly classic specialists so you consider everyone who has ever done anything worth of notice in cobbled races a cobbled classic specialist completely ignoring what they had done in other types of races for years before they raced cobbled races seriously for the first time.
Sagan and GVA have won quite a few Canadian classics between them, GVA has been on the podium in CSS and could have even won in 2015 until a motor-bike knocked him off his bike, GVA won on a mountainous Olympic Road Race, Sagan won the WC three times on different routes without cobbles and was top ten in Firenze 2013, GVA won T-A (mountain stage cancelled, but there were still hilly stages), Stybar and Benoot (he's a bit of both tho) won Strade Bianche, Gilbert won all the Ardennes classics (he's also both a cobbles and hills guy tho), Cancellara was the strongest at the WC in 2009 and won Tour de Suisse & T-A, was third in the Olympic RR in 2008, two Olympic gold medals on hilly courses in the TT, etc.
You're aware that the whole Flemish classics season is over and that the Ardennes mini-season has just begun, right.El Pistolero said:This year he rode mostly Flemish classics, so it's obvious what he is.
Classics specialists are not the same as all-rounders. A true all-rounder is the team leader in both stage races and one-day races. Nibali and Valverde are the two only true all-rounders of the current peloton.El Pistolero said:All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.Blanco said:I'm wondering is Nibali a cobbled classic specialist? Or he needs another year to become one![]()
We saw that when he was third in the Roubaix stage of the Tour 2014.
I mean, he just won Milan-San Remo... the sprinter's classic...
I think he can do both, it is up to him which he'll focus on primarily. He is still young and used to be a domestique in his early years, so we'll see what he can do when he is the team leader. Flanders, Amstel and LBL should be races he can win. He stated his heart lies in the Ardennes, but that recently he started to like the cobbled races as well.WheelofGear said:Pistolero is right about this one. Valgren is made for the Flemish hills not walls. Omloop, E3, Ronde van Vlaanderen and Amstel are the races that suit him the most.
He is always struggling when the road gets really steep. If they attacked on Kruisberg or Eyserbosweg, he wouldn't have made it. Cauberg, Geulhemmerweg, Bemelerberg.. those suit him a lot more. He is heavier and has power than the average puncheur.
Valverde is not an all-rounder either then, as he always wins the same kind of races. Andy Schleck could also win LBL and GTs... Doesn't make him an all-rounder. If you're one of the best climbers you can also do well in LBL or FW.Bardamu said:Classics specialists are not the same as all-rounders. A true all-rounder is the team leader in both stage races and one-day races. Nibali and Valverde are the two only true all-rounders of the current peloton.El Pistolero said:All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.Blanco said:I'm wondering is Nibali a cobbled classic specialist? Or he needs another year to become one![]()
We saw that when he was third in the Roubaix stage of the Tour 2014.
I mean, he just won Milan-San Remo... the sprinter's classic...
Nibali is the biggest all-rounder, I agree. Maybe Dumoulin can turn into one, he has shown his qualities on the cobbles in Eneco Tour a couple of times, defeating the likes GVA easily on the Muur.El Pistolero said:Valverde is not an all-rounder either then, as he always wins the same kind of races. Andy Schleck could also win LBL and GTs... Doesn't make him an all-rounder. If you're one of the best climbers you can also do well in LBL or FW.Bardamu said:Classics specialists are not the same as all-rounders. A true all-rounder is the team leader in both stage races and one-day races. Nibali and Valverde are the two only true all-rounders of the current peloton.El Pistolero said:All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.Blanco said:I'm wondering is Nibali a cobbled classic specialist? Or he needs another year to become one![]()
We saw that when he was third in the Roubaix stage of the Tour 2014.
I mean, he just won Milan-San Remo... the sprinter's classic...
GVA and Sagan actually win races on a wide variety of terrains. The difference between Omloop het Nieuwsblad and the Olympic RR in Brazil couldn't be bigger.
Well, you can be an all-rounder, that is not good enough (at the point in the season) to win the particular race.... so that you are not the leader.Bardamu said:Classics specialists are not the same as all-rounders. A true all-rounder is the team leader in both stage races and one-day races. Nibali and Valverde are the two only true all-rounders of the current peloton.El Pistolero said:All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.Blanco said:I'm wondering is Nibali a cobbled classic specialist? Or he needs another year to become one![]()
We saw that when he was third in the Roubaix stage of the Tour 2014.
I mean, he just won Milan-San Remo... the sprinter's classic...
MS were disappointed with Kreuziger's form in 2017, though he fitted well into the team - Everything is going well in 2018 and he's a definite chance in LBL - My expectation is he will be re-contracted for 2019 - Now to get Nieve back on the bike.lartiste said:I am very happy for Kreuziger, I did not beleive he is cupable of such result any more! But he is when new contract is in question.
"Specialist" - meaning s derived from latin taxonomy where “species” means type or sort as subdivision of “genus” genre - so specialisation basically denotes downward movements in hierarchically ordered levels of things/knowledge, deeper and deeper (and narrower and narrower) areas of characteristics of universe.Bardamu said:Classics specialists are not the same as all-rounders. A true all-rounder is the team leader in both stage races and one-day races. Nibali and Valverde are the two only true all-rounders of the current peloton.El Pistolero said:All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.Blanco said:I'm wondering is Nibali a cobbled classic specialist? Or he needs another year to become one![]()
We saw that when he was third in the Roubaix stage of the Tour 2014.
I mean, he just won Milan-San Remo... the sprinter's classic...
Juraj?Bardamu said:Yep, Sagan, GVA and Sagan are able to win races on a variety of terrains,
Wide variety of terrains you say?El Pistolero said:Valverde is not an all-rounder either then, as he always wins the same kind of races. Andy Schleck could also win LBL and GTs... Doesn't make him an all-rounder. If you're one of the best climbers you can also do well in LBL or FW.Bardamu said:Classics specialists are not the same as all-rounders. A true all-rounder is the team leader in both stage races and one-day races. Nibali and Valverde are the two only true all-rounders of the current peloton.El Pistolero said:All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.Blanco said:I'm wondering is Nibali a cobbled classic specialist? Or he needs another year to become one![]()
We saw that when he was third in the Roubaix stage of the Tour 2014.
I mean, he just won Milan-San Remo... the sprinter's classic...
GVA and Sagan actually win races on a wide variety of terrains. The difference between Omloop het Nieuwsblad and the Olympic RR in Brazil couldn't be bigger.
Juraj is - if anything - a specialist. He's speciality is winning the Slovak National Championship!Leinster said:Juraj?Bardamu said:Yep, Sagan, GVA and Sagan are able to win races on a variety of terrains,
Name me one good climber that isn't good on hills as well. It's basically the same thing, only longer. There are riders that can handle hills, but not mountains, but every climber can handle hills.Blanco said:Wide variety of terrains you say?El Pistolero said:Valverde is not an all-rounder either then, as he always wins the same kind of races. Andy Schleck could also win LBL and GTs... Doesn't make him an all-rounder. If you're one of the best climbers you can also do well in LBL or FW.Bardamu said:Classics specialists are not the same as all-rounders. A true all-rounder is the team leader in both stage races and one-day races. Nibali and Valverde are the two only true all-rounders of the current peloton.El Pistolero said:All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.Blanco said:I'm wondering is Nibali a cobbled classic specialist? Or he needs another year to become one![]()
We saw that when he was third in the Roubaix stage of the Tour 2014.
I mean, he just won Milan-San Remo... the sprinter's classic...
GVA and Sagan actually win races on a wide variety of terrains. The difference between Omloop het Nieuwsblad and the Olympic RR in Brazil couldn't be bigger.
Same kind of races?
Well, Valverde this year only won one bunch sprint, two mountain stages, one uphill sprint, hilly stage in a three man sprint attacking from 35km out on the climb, through the downhill and 20km's of flat, hilly one-day race arriving solo at the finish, and 3 General Classifications. He gifted two races to his good friends, had a very strong showing at sterrato in Toscana, and was very noticeable at cobbled Dwars door Vlaanderen.
So, you see, you have plenty of different terrains here, and not very much the same kind of races.
El Pistolero said:[quote="
All-rounder like Gilbert, Sagan and GVA.
........
Name me one good climber that isn't good on hills as well. It's basically the same thing, only longer. There are riders that can handle hills, but not mountains, but every climber can handle hills.
There is no sense in trying to comment it. You are talking about multiple WC and Olympic Games winners.tobydawq said:Boonen and Cancellara would also be average without Roubaix, Flanders and E3 in the calendar.
Well you are talking about a Grand tour winner and TDF podium , aswell as multiple WC medals.Bot. Sky_Bot said:There is no sense in trying to comment it. You are talking about multiple WC and Olympic Games winners.tobydawq said:Boonen and Cancellara would also be average without Roubaix, Flanders and E3 in the calendar.
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