73rd Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana (2.Pro) // February 2nd - 6th 2022

[Red Rick]

I also expected more, but didn't rule this out. Sent a whatsapp to my brothers earlier today that i was not ruling out that this could happen. His interview (regarding doing different training and being heavier) also didn't fill me with confidence that he would shine today. On the other hand Steels insinuated wednesday he was only at 90%. I'm sure others are too, so looking at those around him, it wasn't exactly bad either.

It's early February, nobody should be 100% right now. But it is the time of year where you're just gonna suffer more on efforts outside the comfort zone.

 

[Red Rick]

You might be right, but that's just because there's too many people wanting to draw too many conclusions from each of Remco's performances and extrapolate them to his future ones, And you're one of them.

My opinion about him as a rider and that it's not the best idea to make him a GT rider hasn't changed since his first season in WT, so for me there would've been no difference if he had won today or not.

And in case of Wiggins, imho, at least in terms of his body type, he was actually a great GT material - climber's physique with excellent TT skills.

Wiggins had everything but a climbers physique.

I just don't know where to put Wiggins cause even though he won the Tour by 3 minutes the team and route were just so lopsided, and I also don't believe he wins any other GT in the last 12 years.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You might be right, but that's just because there's too many people wanting to draw too many conclusions from each of Remco's performances and extrapolate them to his future ones, And you're one of them.

My opinion about him as a rider and that it's not the best idea to make him a GT rider hasn't changed since his first season in WT, so for me there would've been no difference if he had won today or not.

And in case of Wiggins, imho, at least in terms of his body type, he was actually a great GT material - climber's physique with excellent TT skills.

If anybody is drawing conclusions here, it's you. And "lol" at your Wiggins argument. Evenepoel weighs around 61kg in prime form and is a worldclass TTer.

It's early February, nobody should be 100% right now. But it is the time of year where you're just gonna suffer more on efforts outside the comfort zone.

The point is that for everybody it's normal to use prep races as prep races, but when Evenepoel "might" do the same, he should just drop the idea of chasing a GT. I mean, let's look at where Hart finished, the guy that we aren't allowed to believe Remco could potentially have beaten in the 2020 Giro. Hart clearly not up to winning a GT either... except that he did.

 

[limak_]

Wiggins had everything but a climbers physique.

Just beacuse he was tall? He's a guy with a naturally low muscle and fat mass on his upper and lower body. In comparison Remco is naturally much more heavily built and has the ability of gaining muscle more easily and that's why imho it's not good form him to loose much weight at any cost.

 

[Roku]

Great win by Vlasov. Hopefully he takes another step forward this year after a slightly underwhelming 2021.

I am intrigued to see him at Ardennes Classics. I think he could be very well suited to Liege and FW to a lesser extent.

 

[Bonimenier]

Just beacuse he was tall? He's a guy with a naturally low muscle and fat mass on his upper and lower body. In comparison Remco is naturally much more heavily built and has the ability of gaining muscle more easily and that's why imho it's not good form him to loose much weight at any cost.

Naturally? There is a reason he was a GC rider for a short timespan. Because he couldn't bring it up to starve himself once again. His normal racing weight was 6-8 kg more than his TdF weight.

 

[Netserk]

If anybody is drawing conclusions here, it's you. And "lol" at your Wiggins argument. Evenepoel weighs around 61kg in prime form and is a worldclass TTer.



The point is that for everybody it's normal to use prep races as prep races, but when Evenepoel "might" do the same, he should just drop the idea of chasing a GT. I mean, let's look at where Hart finished, the guy that we aren't allowed to believe Remco could potentially have beaten in the 2020 Giro. Hart clearly not up to winning a GT either... except that he did.

Evenepoel has done very well in all smaller stage races he has done so far, it's not unreasonable to have that influence one's expectations. The same doesn't apply to every other rider, so I don't see the double standards.

 

[limak_]

When Remco wins it's an early season race and doesn't mean he can do it in big races, when Remco doesn't win (and not at climbing weight) he should just drop his dream of being a GT rider.

And one more thing about this. Isn't it the same with any other rider of any of the specialities?

Let's assume a sprinter wins a sprint in one of the stage races in the early season. No one's gonna automatically say he's gonna win a TdF stage. But if this sprinter clearly loses a sprint against not the top tier field then we have every right to doubt about his TdF chances. And Remco isn't any exception to this kind of reasoning.

 

[Carols]

I just finished watching the stage. Grande finale. Remo shows he's Human and folds like a cheap suit. Vlasov Strong, Rodriguez impressive. Mas is coming of age I think. Great Racing!

 

[armchairclimber]

Remco could quite easily decide to ride away off the front on rolling terrain tomorrow and take the jersey back.

 

[DaLong]

Remco could quite easily decide to ride away off the front on rolling terrain tomorrow and take the jersey back.

Bora's too well organized to let that happen IMO. Fun to think about that though, would be legendary.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

And one more thing about this. Isn't it the same with any other rider of any of the specialities?

Let's assume a sprinter wins a sprint in one of the stage races in the early season. No one's gonna automatically say he's gonna win a TdF stage. But if this sprinter clearly loses a sprint against not the top tier field then we have every right to doubt about his TdF chances. And Remco isn't any exception to this kind of reasoning.

So in the history of cycling, it has never happened that somebody who ended up winning a GT, did a prep race with subpar results? This is what you are saying, because i won't need a lot of time to come up with an example to wipe the floor with your assumption.

Evenepoel has done very well in all smaller stage races he has done so far, it's not unreasonable to have that influence one's expectations. The same doesn't apply to every other rider, so I don't see the double standards.

So because there are expectations, there aren't double standards? He has literally said in an interview earlier this week that they took a different approach this winter. Look at the helicoptershots from the final 1k, he's visibly far too heavy. My guess is they are aiming for the hilly classics and will then work towards the Vuelta after those.

 

[AlfaLum]

Lets be fair here. Evenepoel looked super impressive on that first stage, so we all thought his form was good.

Now two days later he is far from impressive. And he was riding a stage in a type of terrain where he failed before. So it is not strange that some people are drawing a conclusion that these kind of real mountains are still Evenepoels weakness.

 

[dicanio_michael]

Lol, all cycling fans who know the sport didn't expect Remco to win

Pleasantly surprised by the level of Valverde, Fuglsang and Bilbao. But Vlasov building on the insane talent he showed in 2019 and 2020

Indeed, he is not good at gravel section. There was a race last year he also ran out of gas. Thats why he strongly urge to cancel this section before the race.

 

[Netserk]

So in the history of cycling, it has never happened that somebody who ended up winning a GT, did a prep race with subpar results? This is what you are saying, because i won't need a lot of time to come up with an example to wipe the floor with your assumption.



So because there are expectations, there aren't double standards? He has literally said in an interview earlier this week that they took a different approach this winter. Look at the helicoptershots from the final 1k, he's visibly far too heavy. My guess is they are aiming for the hilly classics and will then work towards the Vuelta after those.

Some riders have a higher floor. For them, early performances have great predictive power. Other riders vary far more, or hold themself back in some races. For them, early performances have less predictive power.

You mentioned Geoghegan Hart. In the two months before the Giro he won, he had no performances of note. So if he does next to nothing in the first part of the season, it doesn't tell much. That is not double standards; it is taking more information into account than a single race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Indeed, he is not good at gravel section. There was a race last year he also ran out of gas. Thats why he strongly urge to cancel this section before the race.

Where did he urge to cancel this section?

The gravel wasn't the issue, the steepness of the climb was.

Some riders have a higher floor. For them, early performances have great predictive power. Other riders vary far more, or hold themself back in some races. For them, early performances have less predictive power.

You mentioned Geoghegan Hart. In the two months before the Giro he won, he had no performances of note. So if he does next to nothing in the first part of the season, it doesn't tell much. That is not double standards; it is taking more information into account than a single race.

And you think we have enough information on Evenepoel to make that call? He wasn't arguing we still don't know if Evenepoel could potentially be a good GT rider. He was insinuating he couldn't by claiming it was bad to pursue it.

 

[limak_]

So in the history of cycling, it has never happened that somebody who ended up winning a GT, did a prep race with subpar results? This is what you are saying, because i won't need a lot of time to come up with an example to wipe the floor with your assumption.

I see, you're trying really hard to misinterpret my words.

Of course it's been happening all the time. But what I was trying to say was that a subpar performance in prep races is usually received in a more pesimistic way than an on par perfomance is received optimistically. And this applies to many riders not only to Remco as you wanted to convince me.

 

[Red Rick]

Honorable mentions to Nibali. Top 20 within 2 minutes.

 

[limak_]

Where did he urge to cancel this section?
The gravel wasn't the issue, the steepness of the climb was.

"We didn’t believe we were going to turn into such a bad gravel road with some really big rocks, so we thought it was a mistake in the GPS, but it doesn’t look like it was a mistake. We’ll have a nice mountain bike stage…"

Remco Evenepoel expects 'explosion' on Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana's off-road summit finish

Belgian thought GPS had led QuickStep-AlphaVinyl astray during recon

www.cyclingnews.com

Well, this sounds that he would've been rather satisfied if he hadn't had to ride that section.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I see, you're trying really hard to misinterpret my words.

Of course it's been happening all the time. But what I was trying to say was that a subpar performance in prep races is usually received in a more pesimistic way than an on par perfomance is received optimistically. And this applies to many riders not only to Remco as you wanted to convince me.

No, i got what you were saying. Failing is proof he can't do it. Not failing is not proof he can do it.

 

[limak_]

No, i got what you were saying. Failing is proof he can't do it. Not failing is not proof he can do it.

Failing is a stronger indication he can't do it than not failing being an indication he can do it.

 

[Red Rick]

Feel like today is evidence he can climb at competitive GC level while it's also not giving a lot of confidence he can win them, especially against the Slovenians

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Failing is a stronger indication he can't do it than not failing being an indication he can do it.

And so, he should just forget about it. Right.
Good thing that guys who had many "strong indications" time and time again, year after year, that they "couldn't" do it, actually kept trying and finally ended up winning a GT. Somebody like Cadel Evans comes to mind. And there are plenty of examples.

Feel like today is evidence he can climb at competitive GC level while it's also not giving a lot of confidence he can win them, especially against the Slovenians

It was disappointing, but even if these types of climbs don't suit him (and imho this is still far from being set in stone), you can win a GT even if you lose a minute on a climb like this. Perhaps not against the Slovenians, that's true. But if he takes time back in ITT's and stages like wednesday, that could make up for it as well. I'm just seeing a clearly "overweight" (for a climber) Evenepoel this week. So i don't want to read into it further than that.

Well, this sounds that he would've been rather satisfied if he hadn't had to ride that section.

Thanks for making my point. He didn't say that, and i think he wouldn't have been the only one who would have preferred not to ride it.

 

[Red Rick]

Check Evenepoels Strava ride. Ignore the overall time of the climb, it's pretty *** thanks to the gravel presumably. But the front group pretty much waited until the final km to go balls deep.

 

[limak_]

And so, he should just forget about it. Right.
Good thing that guys who had many "strong indications" time and time again, year after year, that they "couldn't" do it, actually kept trying and finally ended up winning a GT. Somebody like Cadel Evans comes to mind. And there are plenty of examples.

Again. These are your words, not mine.

I just personally don't like the idea of Remco being a GT rider. Instead I'd rather see him focusing on improving the skills that would allow him to win more one day races as I'd find it more enjoyable (although I've never said he can't win a GT, beacuse in some favourable conditions he certainly can and if that's his dream he should obviously try to acheive that ).