8 Things On Lance Armstrong From The "Other Side Of The Grass"

[Bala Verde]

Excellent -and a must- read for every cycling (and Lance) fans
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009...Y+BEEHIVE%29

I asked the CN crew why my OP thread was closed, still no answer......

It was closed because of persistent trolling.

I merged the threads.

 

[buckwheat]

It's beginning to look really strange. What's the point in banning the guy again and again, when they let him back the next day under a different username. Do you think he could be actually working for LA?

When he is allowed to drown any attempt of constructive debate in a tsunami of nonsensical hairsplitting, and even to get a thread closed, then he has reached his goal: To obstruct the rational and informed discussion and censor the voices of the people he don't agree with.

I hope the moderators are able to reckognize this.

Don't worry. The fall of Lance is going to be even bigger news than the fall of Tiger and it will take millions upon millions of such non sensical, parasitic, sycophantic, idol worshipping, fanatical, chamois sniveling "people" to hold back that tide.

Oh, I forgot. I'm in the U.S. Anything is possible.

 

[Anonymous]

So once LA takes the fall will everyone be continuing the anti-doping crusade against the other suspected dopers dating back to the 80's, 70's, 60's, etc?

We can start with Merckx, Sean Kelly, Roche, Fignon, Anquetil, Coppi...

 

[workingclasshero]

So once LA takes the fall will everyone be continuing the anti-doping crusade against the other suspected dopers dating back to the 80's, 70's, 60's, etc?

We can start with Merckx, Sean Kelly, Roche, Fignon, Anquetil, Coppi...

yes but only after we've danced on lance's grave throughout the night btw can't remember those people you mentioned using cancer to look good and make big bucks

 

[Anonymous]

yes but only after we've danced on lance's grave throughout the night btw can't remember those people you mentioned using cancer to look good and make big bucks

Hahahaha!! I think there'd be a huge party that would last more than just one night!

And although they don't use a cause for gains they are essentially dopers as well, the main reason everyone cites for LA's success on the bike. So they should still be scrutinized all the same.

Although you bring up a very good point. If LA hadn't started his cancer crusade would everyone still be on him so hard? Or would they just write him off as a jerk and go on with their lives?

 

[hektoren]

yes but only after we've danced on lance's grave throughout the night btw can't remember those people you mentioned using cancer to look good and make big bucks

Killing off LA is a bit like spilling the beans on Santa Claus as the original pedophile. (Candy AND gifts? HO-HO-HO) It just won't go down well with most people. LA's story, "don't give up, spit in the face of the grim reaper and succeed", is just too good a story, ensnaring politicians, figureheads sporting the yellow bracelet all world around. Most people "want to" believe in him as kind of a second coming of JC. (He suffers for all of us).

On the other hand there's all the evidence. LA is, most of all, pathetic. What makes him tick is all too evident, and he really has excelled in two of the seven original sins: Vanity and Greed. I, for one, can't wait to see the back of him.

 

[poupou]

Hahahaha!! I think there'd be a huge party that would last more than just one night!

And although they don't use a cause for gains they are essentially dopers as well, the main reason everyone cites for LA's success on the bike. So they should still be scrutinized all the same.

Although you bring up a very good point. If LA hadn't started his cancer crusade would everyone still be on him so hard? Or would they just write him off as a jerk and go on with their lives?

LA's problem began in Tarbes 19 July
From http://chipdoc.tripod.com/TdF99/AStageRest2.html

Lance held his press conference today. I went because I was curious; I had never been to one before. It was held in an auditorium and there were probably a hundred journalists. There were lots of dumb questions and normal questions. Ironically the first two doping questions came from two American journalists. Lance asserted his innocence and told all the journalists that his racing life, personal life, and health were open to questions. Not one of the journalists that had previously bad-mouthed him in the papers asked one question. They always print what they want. Lance also talked about how hard it is having the jersey: all the extra obligations with the press, fans, and the Tour have made it more difficult for him to get his rest. He said he is not used to this much attention. I believe him.

Frankie Andreu didn't report all other doping questions like those about EPO or a EPO TUE, reporters were stupefied at that time by Lance's transformation from a donkey in mountain to a mountain goat. Of course we have to remember it was just after Festina. People had learnt a lot about EPO and its effects.
That is that day that he became a liar for everyone especially after the backdated TUE for the alleged saddle-sore cream.

Add: 20 july

Lance Armstrong, the Tour leader, spent the rest day answering claims in the French press that he could be winning only by using artificial stimulants.

Armstrong, who called a conference near his Tarbes hotel, said: "After what happened in the Tour last year, I think the winner this year, and probably the next, will always be suspected of taking dope.

 

[guilder]

Why is it that Armstrong's groupies are unable to actually discuss the mountain of evidence and instead resort to calling anyone who questions him a hater?

Speaking of groupies, why is it LA haters refuse to recognize the virulent cult they've formed, outnumbering tenfold the number of Lance fans that even care to engage them in their Lance hating spew?

If there was any evidence the French would have taken him down by now.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Speaking of groupies, why is it LA haters refuse to recognize the virulent cult they've formed, outnumbering tenfold the number of Lance fans that even care to engage them in their Lance hating spew?

If there was any evidence the French would have taken him down by now.

And right on time, one shows up to prove Race Radio's point.

 

[VeloCity]

We know for a fact that almost all of Armstrong's rivals over those seven Tours were doping - Zulle, Pantani, Ullrich, Basso, Botero, Hamilton, Landis, Mayo, Vinokourov, Kloden, Virenque, Beloki, Heras, Mancebo, Rumsas, Rasmussen, etc etc.

Ignoring for the moment the 6 EPO tests and working with Ferrari and all of the other evidence that points to Armstrong doping, what I'd most like to hear (and have yet to hear) is a rational explanation as to how Armstrong managed to beat all of those doping riders by an average of about 3-5 minutes (and upward of ~7 minutes) for seven straight years without doping himself.

To me, that's the most damning evidence right there. There's simply not a chance in hell that a clean rider can win a three-week Tour 7 years in a row by minutes over numerous doping rivals. None. Zero. Zip.

 

[BYOP88]

We know for a fact that almost all of Armstrong's rivals over those seven Tours were doping - Zulle, Pantani, Ullrich, Basso, Botero, Hamilton, Landis, Mayo, Vinokourov, Kloden, Virenque, Beloki, Heras, Mancebo, Rumsas, Rasmussen, etc etc.

Ignoring for the moment the 6 EPO tests and working with Ferrari and all of the other evidence that points to Armstrong doping, what I'd most like to hear (and have yet to hear) is a rational explanation as to how Armstrong managed to beat all of those doping riders by an average of about 3-5 minutes (and upward of ~7 minutes) for seven straight years without doping himself.

To me, that's the most damning evidence right there. There's simply not a chance in hell that a clean rider can win a three-week Tour 7 years in a row by minutes over numerous doping rivals. None. Zero. Zip.

Because Lance trained really really really really really really really hard no matter what the weather was like, and he also has a heart the size of the universe.

 

[poupou]

If there was any evidence the French would have taken him down by now.

Because he was under the juridiction and protection of Verbruggen and McQuaid, people who benefited of $500.000 donation and probably more.

Which president said at 2009 season beginning that no one of his top athletes would test positive? Sure in 2008, UCI was already capable of no catching one of the biggest cheaters despite a secret CERA tests.
UCI in charge of all races they could easily avoid all positive by announcing or delaying testing.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Speaking of groupies, why is it LA haters refuse to recognize the virulent cult they've formed, outnumbering tenfold the number of Lance fans that even care to engage them in their Lance hating spew?

A new and novel defence: "We are so few, we must be right!"
When you are in a wood, don't try looking for trees, as you will bump your head.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Because Lance trained really really really really really really really hard no matter what the weather was like, and he also has a heart the size of the universe.

Don't forget the cadence, plus he beat cancer so he can beat anybody. Also those lazy euros don't even know how to train, and he beat cancer so why would he take anything that was bad for him. Also he lost like about 50 pounds from when he was a fat world champion.

 

[Escarabajo]

Speaking of groupies, why is it LA haters refuse to recognize the virulent cult they've formed, outnumbering tenfold the number of Lance fans that even care to engage them in their Lance hating spew?

If there was any evidence the French would have taken him down by now.

A French Conspiracy, right?

So the French don't like Americans, or is just Lance Armstrong they hate?

They are in the bussiness of making money as well, don't forget that.

 

[Berzin]

what I'd most like to hear (and have yet to hear) is a rational explanation as to how Armstrong managed to beat all of those doping riders by an average of about 3-5 minutes (and upward of ~7 minutes) for seven straight years without doping himself.

Absolutely agree with you, but you forgot one thing-his domestiques. Their ability to put in such stunning tempo rides in the mountains day after day, with no pedigree of being able to do so before they joined Armstrong and unable to duplicate it once they left.

Hincapie in front of the US Postal "bus" going up mountains at 27 miles per hour and winning a mountain stage?

Kevin Livingston never rode the way he did after he left Postal.

Hamilton, Heras, Landis and Beltran all got busted. Did I leave anyone out?

There's simply not a chance in hell that a clean rider can win a three-week Tour 7 years in a row by minutes over numerous doping rivals. None. Zero. Zip.

Well then, shame on you for not believing in miracles my good man.

All kidding aside, you make what I think is the best point out there for the average layman who isn't versed in the pharmacology of doping. How could he beat his rivals, who were doped, while he AND HIS TEAM all rode clean?

Physiologically impossible.

 

[Race Radio]

Speaking of groupies, why is it LA haters refuse to recognize the virulent cult they've formed, outnumbering tenfold the number of Lance fans that even care to engage them in their Lance hating spew?

If there was any evidence the French would have taken him down by now.

Thank you for proving my point. Ashenden is a recognized expert in his field. He gave a very long and extensive interview that covered a huge amount of detail about the 99 test.....and all you can do is call him a hater? You do realize this only enhances the weakness of your case?

The French have no jurisdiction. It helps that the head of the ASO, Patrice Clerc , who said that the 99 positives showed that Armstrong's wins were all a big lie, was fired after Lance told the ASO he would not ride the Tour if Clerc was still there.

 

[Earth Tribe]

I don't really go for conspiracy theories, I just believe in bias, but I found this article about the politics surrounding Armstrong in France quite interesting...

http://wadawatch.blogspot.com/2009/06/deux-canards-laques.html

 

[Race Radio]

I don't really go for conspiracy theories, I just believe in bias, but I found this article about the politics surrounding Armstrong in France quite interesting...

http://wadawatch.blogspot.com/2009/06/deux-canards-laques.html

That is not an article, it is a blog post by a guy obsessed with bringing down WADA, thinks Landis is innocent, and confuses word count with information. Most rational people would say he is biased.

 

[Escarabajo]

We know for a fact that almost all of Armstrong's rivals over those seven Tours were doping - Zulle, Pantani, Ullrich, Basso, Botero, Hamilton, Landis, Mayo, Vinokourov, Kloden, Virenque, Beloki, Heras, Mancebo, Rumsas, Rasmussen, etc etc.

Ignoring for the moment the 6 EPO tests and working with Ferrari and all of the other evidence that points to Armstrong doping, what I'd most like to hear (and have yet to hear) is a rational explanation as to how Armstrong managed to beat all of those doping riders by an average of about 3-5 minutes (and upward of ~7 minutes) for seven straight years without doping himself.

To me, that's the most damning evidence right there. There's simply not a chance in hell that a clean rider can win a three-week Tour 7 years in a row by minutes over numerous doping rivals. None. Zero. Zip.

He won because he had the following:

- Heart size like a pumpkin.
- Super high Cadence.
- Super high-tech training techniques. Like riding the mountains before the Tour so he would know where to attack.
- Super Team that will chase down every break away in the mountains. The teammates adopted the same training techniques as Lance Armstrong.
- He lost a lot of weight (like 2 lbs). Because of this weight loss he became a Mountain Goat from being a Bus Driver.
- Super high motivation that nobody else had because of the Cancer Battle.
- Last but not least: Best Doctor in the business that will supply you with the best vitamins in the market.

 

[Earth Tribe]

That is not an article, it is a blog post by a guy obsessed with bringing down WADA, thinks Landis is innocent, and confuses word count with information. Most rational people would say he is biased.

Everybody is biased.

 

[poupou]

I don't really go for conspiracy theories, I just believe in bias, but I found this article about the politics surrounding Armstrong in France quite interesting...

http://wadawatch.blogspot.com/2009/06/deux-canards-laques.html

The guy of that blog is not only biased but dishonnest, for exemple:

No mention of (Director of the Montreal Lab) Dr Alyotte's contemporaneous comments regarding the long–term instability of EPO in frozen urine,

Did he mention that she changed his mind since a while, for sure he know it?

 

[guilder]

A new and novel defence: "We are so few, we must be right!"

The haters rehash the same old sht ad nauseum like it's something we haven't quite heard yet.

A French Conspiracy, right?

So the French don't like Americans, or is just Lance Armstrong they hate?

same old sht

 

[Race Radio]

The hater's rehash the same old sht ad nauseum like it's something we haven't quite heard yet.

If posters like yourself would not continue to deny the obvious nobody would have to remind you of the obvious.

 

[Cozy Beehive]

Thank You

Excellent -and a must- read for every cycling (and Lance) fans
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/200...mpaign=Feed%3A+CozyBeehive+%28COZY+BEEHIVE%29

Thank you for linking to my post here. Your time reading this has been much appreciated. Please be aware if you want to link to it elsewhere, use http://bit.ly/5g4QHY.

Oh, and Betsy Andreu just commented there. Which was an honor.

The post was also expanded slightly to include news articles, quotes etc that will continue to supply the reader with good sources of information to make an informed decision. Ultimately what people want to think of LA is upto them but I think only a toddler would be so irresponsible as to believe LA was clean in '99 despite all the evidence.