86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

[movingtarget]

I hope Gino Mader is ok and recovers well

The descent today has been used several times in the Tour de Suisse ands is not particularly dangerous esp in comparison to other descents.

I remember in 2013 an inflatable blew down on the descent and caused havoc and yet not one rider complained about the dangerous descent. Also Pinot went down it quite fast well before his down mountain training

Seems some riders want to complain all the time now. Because Mader had a bad crash it doesn't necessarily make it a very dangerous descent . Most of the bad crashes can be in innocuous descents ...Andy Schleck comes to mind
FFS do rider (well some ) want to not descend at all now
Its part of racing ...There are descents that are worse with sheer drops

Descending is a skill that quite a few riders don't seem too good at according to some of the vision from the motos. The descent itself didn't seem worse than usual. In break groups you really notice the different levels of descending skills. For a rider of Andy Schleck's talent, his descending was pretty awful, and his brorher wasn't good either.

 

[movingtarget]

Great win by Ayuso.

 

[Extinction]

I'm not really wanting to focus too much on your comment alone, but you mention risk as a general thing in bike racing.
I would argue that 100 K/hr descends in the Alps are among the highest risk environments a rider can be exposed to, for several reasons, and I only realized this after having done some of these descends myself.

You have a combination of thin air, more overall body fatigue, the lack of oxygen resulting in reduced assessment of the situation you are in, and reduced control / reactivity; Next you have the overwhelming speed in a 3D landscape with steep slopes and uneven pavement at the inside of curves. You feel tiny in those big curves and once you go into the apex, you can only hope the curve isn't going more inwards because you know you can't correct anymore, and going into such curves, it can be very hard to modulate your speed.
You can go 60 K/hr in a sprint, but in a 80-100K/hr descend, 60k/hr is way too slow to keep up, so you have a very hard time deciding whether you brake from 100 to 70K/hr when going into the next curve, or 60K/hr. The difference seems small, but the margin of error is already thight. It is very hard to get into some kind of flow taking the next curve and deciding how hard (and when) you should start braking.

I know, having done a fair bit of alpine (and Appennine) descending myself. And I've had to correct a trajectory going into a curve too fast, but somehow managed to stay upright, more than once. At times you have done everything right for 10 curves, but then all of a sudden you realize, oh sh-it, I'm going too fast into this one! And it seemed until that very moment that nothing possibly could go wrong. You can't let yourself relax for a second, because that's when you mess up. Risk is your constant companion, which is arguably highest here, however, it's also true that in no other discipline of cycling does a single rider have more control in managing that risk than in mountain descending. Riders are spread out in file sometimes for a few kms, while the one ahead of you can guide you in taking the right line (or showing you the wrong one to avoid). The problem, of course, is that there is little or no margin for error, because a mistake can be fatal.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Maybe we see at some point electric bikes with regenerating breaking features so the downhill speed can be limited. The battery charge can be used as booster mode on the flat parts in specific zones like in Formula E. Could be fun. Anyone joins me in starting the e-bike cycling sport?

You could ask these people. https://www.ebikeworldtour.com/

 

[Hugh Januss]

The majority of resources are generally devoted to reducing crashes in less critical settings where broken bones and flesh wound are the main concern. That’s great and the several people they had flagging down a train track crossing the other day was great, but if they could put a few more people on the high mountain descents that are wide open like this, or even more signs, I think that would make a huge difference. This is all low statistical probability of a crash, but better placed resources could make a big difference. Maybe also have some mandatory race briefings, not that that will be top of mind in the heat of the moment, but there are options. Overall it’s part of bike racing and with proper precautions can be handled reasonably.

Or just signs just before the entrance to the turn with 3 parallel arrows pointing down. I bet the majority of the peloton has done enough MTB races to know what that means.

 

[Jagartrott]

This morning, part of the mountain came down in the community of Albula (Brienz), after the highest warning level was instated:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669542205529243648

 

[Wvv]

I always preferred tight twisty descents, where if you mess up you slide a few feet on your hip and knee, to the sweeping fast 100 K an hour wide open don't even have to mess up just puncture at the wrong moment and you might be flung off into oblivion type of descents. But maybe that's just me.

As a regular bike rider myself, I agree completely. Technical hairpins also demand skill and focus, but it feels less dangerous to me than downhill speedways.

 

[search]

In other news, the landslide warning at the bottom of the Albulapass (the side they climbed today and were going to descend tomorrow) has gone from red to blue so it seems they'll have to go for a plan B tomorrow. In addition, the second climb is closed too

are you sure about the 2nd climb? I also saw an article which says that the road to Lantsch/Lenz was hit by yesterday's rockslide, but I'd rather think it's the one inside the village, so normally not affecting the race route (which takes the big road instead).

Or can't they use it because it's now needed for support vehicles etc?

 

[jaylew]

You can subtract a few seconds from Almeida's time if you want. It's not going to make a real impact on the overall dynamics.

I wholeheartedly agree!

 

[geisterhome]

Sorry you blocked me, I really like Remco, and I hope he succeeds and he had a great Veulta for his age . He would be 1000% better off without his fans being so intense. You’d be better off logging off the forum and stop being obsessive over someone else’s career and achievements lol

Damn right.

 

[stetre76]

Like i said, and some posters upthread said Gall or Skjelmose said something about the descent being dangerous iirc, but i did not see or read that myself. Bardet didn't say the descent should have been cancelled, just that he was scared... So i would think if he had a choice he would also have prefered not to have done it.

I've read the interviews from Gall in the austran newspapers and there's nothing from Gall mentioning that the descent was dangerous...
On orf.at he said he was sad that he lost the yellow jersey on the descent - he had the wrong wheel and lost contact to the riders in front and it was impossible to close the gap (just some 15-20 meters) at this high speed.

But there's nothing about the descent being dangerous....

I really hope for Mäder to get well soon and that there will be some good news on the media this morning (so far nothing new).
But call the descent overly dangerous....well I don't know, I think there are far mor dangerous descents in Grand Tours and other stage races...

 

[search]

start moved to Chur, so no climbs at the start today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669571874676768769

View: https://twitter.com/tds/status/1669571874676768769

so the new profile should be like this:

 

[Berniece]

Wonder if Jumbo will take the lead to see if Wout can go for the victory. How difficult is that last climb?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I know nothing about the roads there, but purely going from the profile, and imagining the state of mind of the peloton this morning, the omission of those two sizeable descents might be a diplomatic move.

(yes, they are early and would not have been ridden aggressively except perhaps by a determined breakaway, and yes, I know that force majeure rather than diplomacy was the reason. Just saying that there will be, I would imagine, a collective sighof relief.)

 

[search]

Wonder if Jumbo will take the lead to see if Wout can go for the victory. How difficult is that last climb?

via @Devil's Elbow on page one of this thread:

Islisberg (9k to go from the top):

Final climb

so yeah, could be good for van Aert, if he didn't go too deep yesterday. But also for Pidcock, or even more so, Evenepoel, I think. His sprint looked really good lately.

 

[Berniece]

via @Devil's Elbow on page one of this thread:

Islisberg (9k to go from the top):

Final climb

so yeah, could be good for van Aert, if he didn't go too deep yesterday. But also for Pidcock, or even more so, Evenepoel, I think. His sprint looked really good lately.

Thanks, forgot about the opening post. So basically SQS and UAE need to sprint from bottom to top on both hills, and Van Aert needs to be able to follow

 

[Mayomaniac]

Descending is a skill that quite a few riders don't seem too good at according to some of the vision from the motos. The descent itself didn't seem worse than usual. In break groups you really notice the different levels of descending skills. For a rider of Andy Schleck's talent, his descending was pretty awful, and his brorher wasn't good either.

The thing is, Mäder has been know as a great descender since the u23 days, incidents happen.

 

[Monsi]

With the revised route, I think Jumbo controls it for Wout. If they had the original profile, Wout probably would've just gone into the break.

However, I think there will be some GC action on the last two climbs. Gall, Ayuso, and Skjelmose needs more time on Remco, imo. They have to test Remco today and see if he can follow their accelerations.

 

[Nyanderc]

Like i said, and some posters upthread said Gall or Skjelmose said something about the descent being dangerous iirc, but i did not see or read that myself. Bardet didn't say the descent should have been cancelled, just that he was scared... So i would think if he had a choice he would also have prefered not to have done it.

In any case, the descent only made for few seconds in differences. Evenepoel lost 8 seconds to Ayuso, who only lost 11 seconds to the Skjelmose group. When you slow down/break too hard or too often in a high speed descent, differences would be a lot bigger.

The thing is that he wasn't the only one who felt that way about the descent, and 2 different riders crashing at the same spot at different times might show maybe there was something to be said about it. Mäder wasn't even in the GC anymore so there was no reason for him to take risks. And i'm sure it's easy from our couch or behind our laptop to declare the roads safe.

Skjelmose said to the Danish reporter, that he gave it alle down the descent, but he saw Sheffield crash over the side and was more careful from that moment.
It wasn't my impression that he thought it was especially dangerous at first, but witnessing that crash made him slow down.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

That's one lame alternative route, was looking forward to early climbing. Oh well, at least the reason why we aren't having it has not ended up destroying the village of Brienz.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

so yeah, could be good for van Aert, if he didn't go too deep yesterday. But also for Pidcock, or even more so, Evenepoel, I think. His sprint looked really good lately.

I'm also really curious as to how Grégoire holds up on this kind of finish (which really should suit him a lot) against those three (and Skjelmose, who is also a major threat here).

 

[SafeBet]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669613550078230528

View: https://twitter.com/simongeschke/status/1669613550078230528?s=20

 

[glassmoon]

That's one lame alternative route, was looking forward to early climbing. Oh well, at least the reason why we aren't having it has not ended up destroying the village of Brienz.

did you really expected alternative route with all the necessary closures and approvals and safety measures in course of few hours? there was no other realistic way to do this in such short notice other than just use the rest of the stage prepared/finalized long time ago a ready to go.

 

[glassmoon]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669613550078230528

View: https://twitter.com/simongeschke/status/1669613550078230528?s=20

wtf Remco? the descent was perfectly fine... i mean wtf?

 

[Mayomaniac]

wtf Remco? the descent was perfectly fine... i mean wtf?

Remco crying about downhill finishes in general has big Schleck energy, it has to be said.