A downhill sprint finish will usually mean a group of at least a moderate size sprinting in high speed within a small space. On a descent fisnish the riders will usually be much more scattered and there would be much more room between each rider. So I can't really see that it is the same thing.I also remember a near-unanimous consensus on downhill sprint finishes. Maybe someone can explain to me what the difference is exactly. Speeds exceeding 80kmh, long straight and wide road. Riders take the risks themeselves. Why blame organizers? Why change anything or why forbid such finishes? You can't advocate against downhill sprint finishes, and argue nothing should be done about descends towards a finishline, with a straight face.
There is a picture on the police website, I assume the one on the right is Gino's line - https://www.gr.ch/DE/institutionen/verwaltung/djsg/kapo/aktuelles/medien/2023/Seiten/202306161.aspx
This is just before the bend where Mäder went off the road.To me it seems like rider error simply seems the most likely explanation, that doesnt make it any less tragic
This goes for nearly all accidents. And yet two riders less than 10 minutes apart, crashed in the exact same corner.To me it seems like rider error simply seems the most likely explanation, that doesnt make it any less tragic
So you think you can use the entire width of the road going into a corner at 100kmh going downhill? Send me a video of you doing that after you tried.A downhill sprint finish will usually mean a group of at least a moderate size sprinting in high speed within a small space. On a descent fisnish the riders will usually be much more scattered and there would be much more room between each rider. So I can't really see that it is the same thing.
The freedom is still bigger than in a mass sprint where you have riders on all sides. It is probably more dangerous with a normal mass sprint going in 60 km/h than a descent finish like yesterday.So you think you can use the entire width of the road at 100kmh going downhill? Send me a video of you doing that after you tried.
The freedom and margin you have going into a corner at that speed, might even be narrower than the space you get going towards a straight finish in a sprint. There is only one ideal line, and not being on that line means you need to hit the brakes.
No it isn't. If you go into a corner downhill at that speed you don't get to decide to be 50cm more to your left or right, without adjusting your speed. Good luck doing that at 100kmh. It's not because there is no rider there, that you can move there or use that space.The freedom is still bigger than in a mass sprint where you have riders on all sides.
View: https://youtu.be/BkBNTrDN0tw
The corner in question is at 3:20 of this video fwiw, they’re only going 65kph in the video though.
Tbf we don't actually know if it was a clear road ahead of him. We know Sheffield went off before him ah the same place so could easily have been cars parked at the side of the road attending to him which would have been dangerous there, and would give Mader less time to adjustThat doesn't look that awfully dangerous, but accidents often happen at non-obvious places, and any crash can be dangerous on a bicycle.
I don’t know what to think about cars parked in the corner. I think if there were cars parked because the Sheffield crash in the corner itself he would see them and slowed down before the corner?Tbf we don't actually know if it was a clear road ahead of him. We know Sheffield went off before him ah the same place so could easily have been cars parked at the side of the road attending to him which would have been dangerous there, and would give Mader less time to adjust
We'll probably learn more about this once the police investigation has concluded, but there was a roadside parking area less than 50 metres after where Sheffield and Mäder went off the road, I would guess that is where they would have parked. Cannot imagine a DS leaving their car parked on the road in the middle of a curve on a descent unless they had no choice.I don’t know what to think about cars parked in the corner. I think if there were cars parked because the Sheffield crash in the corner itself he would see them and slowed down before the corner?
I mean the parked cars should probably be parked after where Sheffield and Mader left the road?
I'm sorry but I cannot believe anyone who watched the race yesterday didn't think that descent looked dangerous. I really don't want to argue about the pros and cons of downhill finishes right now, that's not a discussion to be held today, but whenever riders are able to reach 100kph on a descent with blind corners, the risk goes up dramatically.
I thought the same. He could have a flat front tire or his sweaty hand slipped off the bar. But the obstacle explanation is also a decent theory.If the second red line was Mäders there're 2 options only.
Either Mäder hit that corner with way to much speed and straightly shoot out of it like a Carrera car.
Or there was a parked Ineos team car and the only way to avoid it with the power coming into that section was to steer past it on the right.
Frankly, why would Mäder a guy from Switzerland who certainly has descended Albulapass before do the first?
Hate to say it, but option 2 sounds more logical to me currently.
It takes a special kind of sick to use Mäder's death to whine a bit more about "Remco-hating"But if anything, at the very least Mäder is spared being called bambi, in case he might have taken a bit less risks next time had he ever been granted that luxury. I guess that's something.
I think riders just arent that used to thesr speeds either. Which is why they should be more cautious when they cant see the road
Yes I think the picture of the two break tracks in the bottom of the Police article shows that it wasn’t any space to park in the side of the road in a position that would make “go right off a parked car” an option?We'll probably learn more about this once the police investigation has concluded, but there was a roadside parking area less than 50 metres after where Sheffield and Mäder went off the road, I would guess that is where they would have parked. Cannot imagine a DS leaving their car parked on the road in the middle of a curve on a descent unless they had no choice.
They routinely do exactly that when they put a guy waving a flag at danger spots. That's what the conversation should be focusing on if you ask me - ways to better mark potentially dangerous turns in descents, and realistic safety measures for particularly dangerous ravines and cliffs. Banning downhill finishes out of some misguided safety concerns would be bad and hypocritical.You can't really ask people that participate in racing to go slower, cause the all point of it is to go as fast as possible.
What is the point of a descent finish then? Might as well finish on top.But if the UCI wants to improve safety and make the finish on the descent on some stages. It could also be easily solved if they put a speed checker radar before a dangerous corner. Tell the riders at the start of the stage that you have to slow down to 60km/h before that corner, if you exceed that you will get a time penalty. The racing is maintained because everyone has to slow down, but it also makes the race safer.
I'll never know how these guys do it. 65 km/h is my limit where my self-preservation kicks in and forces me to go no faster.Bicycles imo just aren't safe at 90 km/h, with the tiny tires, flimsy (compared to motorcycles) materials, narrow forks etc. Going that speed even on a high tech road bike is madness to me.