86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

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Big Doopie

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Oct 6, 2009
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Boehmand said:
It's just about eliminating the risk. If you have 15 guys out in front, you can ride easy at the bonus sprints too, instead of having to ramp it up and guard Evenepoel every time.
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no, no, it is absolutely the way to go. QS did it throughout last year's vuelta to take away bonus possibilities from Rog.

my point is that only 18 months ago, no one believed Remco would ever be able to sprint at all.
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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Big Doopie said:
no, no, it is absolutely the way to go. QS did it throughout last year's vuelta to take away bonus possibilities from Rog.

my point is that only 18 months ago, no one believed Remco would ever be able to sprint at all.
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He's clearly gotten faster since, we saw that in the Giro too.

The best riders work on their weaknesses, much like Froome used to be a crap descender, and ended up using it as a weapon.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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theyoungest said:
It is interesting how Ayuso, a rider with probably an equally questionable form at the start of this race, truly came alive today on a long, high altitude climb, whereas Evenepoel definitely did not. It probably says something about natural talent. This is not to say that Remco can never do it, but apparently to Ayuso it really comes naturally.
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And Evenepoel in questionable form gaining 50+ seconds on Ayuso yesterday tells us something about natural talent on different climbs, right?
OMFG lol.

Devil's Elbow said:
His overall level cannot, but him being clearly worse on the longest, hardest and highest mountain stage than he was the last two days does not bode well for how even an Evenepoel in great form would have gone on e.g. the Tre Cime stage at the Giro or the Loze stage at the Tour. I've said this before, but the Vuelta route was fantastic for him because it had zero big mountain stages and one HC climb, he's yet to show that he can go as well on stages of this calibre as he can on cat. 1 MTFs with middling run-ins and he'll need to if he's going to win a Giro or a Tour. Not saying he'll never manage (need a bigger sample size for that), but today does still count as a strike against him because it's still a disappointing performance when we correct for his form.
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Clearly worse how? Yesterday he was dropped repeatedly but came back, in the end he lost over a minute to Gall. Today he lost over a minute to Ayuso, 22 seconds to Gall and 28 seconds to Skjelmose who mainly rode away on the descent. He was just as bad as he was yesterday. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
And Evenepoel in questionable form gaining 50+ seconds on Ayuso yesterday tells us something about natural talent on different climbs, right?
OMFG lol.
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Yesterday at least 10 riders were better than Ayuso. Not just Evenepoel. Today Ayuso was by far the best. So yes, that does tell us something about his talent for this particular type of climb. It's a different ballgame, one which (apparently) Ayuso is naturally really good at.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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theyoungest said:
Yesterday at least 10 riders were better than Ayuso. Not just Evenepoel. Today Ayuso was by far the best. So yes, that does tell us something about his talent for this particular type of climb. It's a different ballgame, one which (apparently) Ayuso is naturally really good at.
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Exactly, so Ayuso getting dropped by your grandma yesterday, must tell us something about his natural talent on such a climb.
Neither is in form, they will not be able to perform consistently.
 
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EddyMazzoleni

EddyMazzoleni

Apr 26, 2023
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theyoungest said:
Yesterday at least 10 riders were better than Ayuso. Not just Evenepoel. Today Ayuso was by far the best. So yes, that does tell us something about his talent for this particular type of climb. It's a different ballgame, one which (apparently) Ayuso is naturally really good at.
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These results may not speak about Ayuso or Remco's talent, but this take speaks a lot about your ability to distinguish aleatory effects on rider performances
 
Devil's Elbow

Devil's Elbow

Sep 20, 2017
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Evenepoel now claiming this descent was too dangerous to race. Which is absolutely stupid, because a) this descent finish has been used repeatedly in the past, and b) if this descent was too narrow, sinuous, steep or in any other way technical then we can't have descents anywhere because this road was wider and in better shape than your average HC climb. Yes, I understand emotions are high after what appears to have happened to Mäder, but simply not doing descent finishes is not the solution.
 
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