86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

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Riek s

Jun 24, 2010
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Devil's Elbow said:
His overall level cannot, but him being clearly worse on the longest, hardest and highest mountain stage than he was the last two days does not bode well for how even an Evenepoel in great form would have gone on e.g. the Tre Cime stage at the Giro or the Loze stage at the Tour. I've said this before, but the Vuelta route was fantastic for him because it had zero big mountain stages and one HC climb, he's yet to show that he can go as well on stages of this calibre as he can on cat. 1 MTFs with middling run-ins and he'll need to if he's going to win a Giro or a Tour. Not saying he'll never manage (need a bigger sample size for that), but today does still count as a strike against him because it's still a disappointing performance when we correct for his form.
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The more you climb, the more your W/kg advantage comes to fruition. (because you spend less energy following the pace of others).
Remco current output is at his max while dropping. Hence a longer climb,or more overall climbing is worse because he spends more time at max than the others.
if he misses 20W, thats like 0.3W/kg. So if they ride 6W/kg it is now extremely challenging while with otherwise its a breader)
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Gigs_98 said:
Concerning Evenepoels descending, I don't think there was anything particularly weird about that. He was probably around 10 seconds behind the Skjelmose on the top of the climb already. Combine that with him being a generally mediocre descender and the fact that he likely went deep into the red on the climb and I think losing another 15 seconds or so is exactly what should have been expected. Remember when Pinot gained time on Nibali on the descent in Lombardia 2018? That kind of stuff simply happens when one rider is really strong and the other one completely cooked.
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He was getting dropped by riders he was climbing with on the descent thought
 
Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

Apr 10, 2019
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Devil's Elbow said:
Why not? Carapaz and Fuglsang did a range attack into Leukerbad two years ago and yesterday's stage was harder. This race is a prime example of a good route delivering good racing, a nice change of pace after all the good and bad stage race routes destroyed by dominance or apathy this year.
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Yeah, but the stage came right before the queenstage, that's why it was a bit unexpected to see long range attacks.
 
B

Big Doopie

BANNED
Oct 6, 2009
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Boehmand said:
Trek's only going to control from now till Sunday, they just need to keep Evenepoel away from bonus seconds, so will probably let big breaks go both days, probably with Simmons or Theuns getting to go along for the ride (and the win).
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i find it funny how the narrative has changed. remco is to be "feared" in bonus sprints.

i don't disagree. just funny considering...the guy who would never be able to sprint.

ayuso could go for bonuses as well, me thinks.
 
HelloDolly

HelloDolly

Mar 13, 2015
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Rackham said:
We actually don't know though because he's so young. Ayuso can develop other traits like mountain sprint (just look at Evenepoel, i.e. who went from being a tractor uphill to now having a serious kick which gives me a nice advantage on certain profiles).

Ayuso was very impressive today & I absolutely enjoyed his win (& his descent was pretty epic as well). I also liked the Albulapass col, i.e. something worthy of being in a GT like the Tour or Giro. Nice views, good roads, long, hard & spectacular descent.
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Of course we dont know and its only my opinion but I was answering some one with definite views

Riders like Pogacar are few and far between and its not about just been able to climb well
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Gigs_98 said:
Concerning Evenepoels descending, I don't think there was anything particularly weird about that. He was probably around 10 seconds behind the Skjelmose on the top of the climb already. Combine that with him being a generally mediocre descender and the fact that he likely went deep into the red on the climb and I think losing another 15 seconds or so is exactly what should have been expected. Remember when Pinot gained time on Nibali on the descent in Lombardia 2018? That kind of stuff simply happens when one rider is really strong and the other one completely cooked.
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You can see Skjelmose's group ahead of Evenepoel at the top:
gRY7gSB.png


By my best count the gap is about 5''.
 
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Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
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Netserk said:
You can see Skjelmose's group ahead of Evenepoel at the top:
gRY7gSB.png


By my best count the gap is about 5''.
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I literally cannot. And anyway, what's your point? You completely debunked my analysis because I was off by 5 seconds?
 
Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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HelloDolly said:
Of course we dont know and its only my opinion but I was answering some one with definite views

Riders like Pogacar are few and far between and its not about just been able to climb well
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Tbh riders like Pogacar seem to be growing on trees these days. We got Vingegaard, Evenepoel, now Ayuso presumably.

And modern training techniques allow these riders to work on weaker areas of their skillset (like mountain sprint) & 'change' their own profile over time.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Gigs_98 said:
I literally cannot. And anyway, what's your point? You completely debunked my analysis because I was off by 5 seconds?
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My point was to provide a better assessment of the situation. I haven't pretended that would debunk anything. I just generally think it's better to have more accurate information at hand.

Not all replies are disagreements.
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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Big Doopie said:
i find it funny how the narrative has changed. remco is to be "feared" in bonus sprints.

i don't disagree. just funny considering...the guy who would never be able to sprint.

ayuso could go for bonuses as well, me thinks.
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It's just about eliminating the risk. If you have 15 guys out in front, you can ride easy at the bonus sprints too, instead of having to ramp it up and guard Evenepoel and Ayuso every time.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

Jan 8, 2020
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Andy schleck said:
I'm not saying ayuso will be a more complete rider than pogacar, or that he will be overall better than him. I was talking only about grand tours in the future.
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Right, he might yet to prove the biggest engine of them all. And if he does go on to be the GT king, then he's the best in my book.
 
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