86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

[Riek s]

His overall level cannot, but him being clearly worse on the longest, hardest and highest mountain stage than he was the last two days does not bode well for how even an Evenepoel in great form would have gone on e.g. the Tre Cime stage at the Giro or the Loze stage at the Tour. I've said this before, but the Vuelta route was fantastic for him because it had zero big mountain stages and one HC climb, he's yet to show that he can go as well on stages of this calibre as he can on cat. 1 MTFs with middling run-ins and he'll need to if he's going to win a Giro or a Tour. Not saying he'll never manage (need a bigger sample size for that), but today does still count as a strike against him because it's still a disappointing performance when we correct for his form.

The more you climb, the more your W/kg advantage comes to fruition. (because you spend less energy following the pace of others).
Remco current output is at his max while dropping. Hence a longer climb,or more overall climbing is worse because he spends more time at max than the others.
if he misses 20W, thats like 0.3W/kg. So if they ride 6W/kg it is now extremely challenging while with otherwise its a breader)

 

[Red Rick]

Concerning Evenepoels descending, I don't think there was anything particularly weird about that. He was probably around 10 seconds behind the Skjelmose on the top of the climb already. Combine that with him being a generally mediocre descender and the fact that he likely went deep into the red on the climb and I think losing another 15 seconds or so is exactly what should have been expected. Remember when Pinot gained time on Nibali on the descent in Lombardia 2018? That kind of stuff simply happens when one rider is really strong and the other one completely cooked.

He was getting dropped by riders he was climbing with on the descent thought

 

[Mayomaniac]

Why not? Carapaz and Fuglsang did a range attack into Leukerbad two years ago and yesterday's stage was harder. This race is a prime example of a good route delivering good racing, a nice change of pace after all the good and bad stage race routes destroyed by dominance or apathy this year.

Yeah, but the stage came right before the queenstage, that's why it was a bit unexpected to see long range attacks.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Skjelmose has said that Sheffield crashed in the descent and that there's a chance he might have gone over the edge of the road. Since he hasn't finished the stage, it doesn't look great.

If the broadcast was any good we would have seen that in detail.

 

[Big Doopie]

Trek's only going to control from now till Sunday, they just need to keep Evenepoel away from bonus seconds, so will probably let big breaks go both days, probably with Simmons or Theuns getting to go along for the ride (and the win).

i find it funny how the narrative has changed. remco is to be "feared" in bonus sprints.

i don't disagree. just funny considering...the guy who would never be able to sprint.

ayuso could go for bonuses as well, me thinks.

 

[HelloDolly]

We actually don't know though because he's so young. Ayuso can develop other traits like mountain sprint (just look at Evenepoel, i.e. who went from being a tractor uphill to now having a serious kick which gives me a nice advantage on certain profiles).

Ayuso was very impressive today & I absolutely enjoyed his win (& his descent was pretty epic as well). I also liked the Albulapass col, i.e. something worthy of being in a GT like the Tour or Giro. Nice views, good roads, long, hard & spectacular descent.

Of course we dont know and its only my opinion but I was answering some one with definite views

Riders like Pogacar are few and far between and its not about just been able to climb well

 

[Netserk]

Concerning Evenepoels descending, I don't think there was anything particularly weird about that. He was probably around 10 seconds behind the Skjelmose on the top of the climb already. Combine that with him being a generally mediocre descender and the fact that he likely went deep into the red on the climb and I think losing another 15 seconds or so is exactly what should have been expected. Remember when Pinot gained time on Nibali on the descent in Lombardia 2018? That kind of stuff simply happens when one rider is really strong and the other one completely cooked.

You can see Skjelmose's group ahead of Evenepoel at the top:

By my best count the gap is about 5''.

 

[Gigs_98]

He was getting dropped by riders he was climbing with on the descent thought

That I missed. Who dropped him?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

If the broadcast was any good we would have seen that in detail.

Maybe it was for the best that we didn't.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

If the broadcast was any good we would have seen that in detail.

I meant that he crashed at all and whether he‘s getting up because the TV moto of Evenepoel definitely passed him and filmed something.

 

[Mayomaniac]

You can see Skjelmose's group ahead of Evenepoel at the top:

By my best count the gap is about 5''.

Looks like 3 Belgians were holding hands on the descent...

 

[jmdirt]

JUAN! TAKE that climb (and descent) young man!

 

[Extinction]

Ayuso is a beast, and he will be a better grand tour rider than pogacar.

I want to see, but I wouldn't put it beyond him.

 

[Gigs_98]

You can see Skjelmose's group ahead of Evenepoel at the top:

By my best count the gap is about 5''.

I literally cannot. And anyway, what's your point? You completely debunked my analysis because I was off by 5 seconds?

 

[Rackham]

Of course we dont know and its only my opinion but I was answering some one with definite views

Riders like Pogacar are few and far between and its not about just been able to climb well

Tbh riders like Pogacar seem to be growing on trees these days. We got Vingegaard, Evenepoel, now Ayuso presumably.

And modern training techniques allow these riders to work on weaker areas of their skillset (like mountain sprint) & 'change' their own profile over time.

 

[Andy schleck]

I want to see, but I wouldn't put it beyond him.

I'm not saying ayuso will be a more complete rider than pogacar, or that he will be overall better than him. I was talking only about grand tours in the future.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I'm not saying ayuso will be a more complete rider than pogacar, or that he will be overall better than him. I was talking only about grand tours in the future.

Currently, this prediction is as good as astrology.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

According to the results, Arnaud Démare finished 37th. Maybe he can go to the Tour as a mountain domestique.

 

[Netserk]

I literally cannot. And anyway, what's your point? You completely debunked my analysis because I was off by 5 seconds?

My point was to provide a better assessment of the situation. I haven't pretended that would debunk anything. I just generally think it's better to have more accurate information at hand.

Not all replies are disagreements.

 

[Potomac]

Skjelmose has said that Sheffield crashed in the descent and that there's a chance he might have gone over the edge of the road. Since he hasn't finished the stage, it doesn't look great.

Still nothing showing in the finish stats for him.

 

[johnymax]

He should just follow Vingegaard in the Tour smh.

Only if he wants to win it.

 

[Tim Cahill]

DNF, on his way to hospital apparently, not got any info on the condition but can't be good because he's gone over the handlebars on a very fast descent

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669356460403494921

View: https://twitter.com/belmaati_joe/status/1669356460403494921

 

[Boehmand]

i find it funny how the narrative has changed. remco is to be "feared" in bonus sprints.

i don't disagree. just funny considering...the guy who would never be able to sprint.

ayuso could go for bonuses as well, me thinks.

It's just about eliminating the risk. If you have 15 guys out in front, you can ride easy at the bonus sprints too, instead of having to ramp it up and guard Evenepoel and Ayuso every time.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

According to the results, Arnaud Démare finished 37th. Maybe he can go to the Tour as a mountain domestique.

Did he hear about the U23 Giro and remember how much he likes hanging onto a car?

 

[Extinction]

I'm not saying ayuso will be a more complete rider than pogacar, or that he will be overall better than him. I was talking only about grand tours in the future.

Right, he might yet to prove the biggest engine of them all. And if he does go on to be the GT king, then he's the best in my book.