86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

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25km from the finish = before the Ottenberg climb... which means after a descent from the Engishalden & Braunau. I mean WTF.

probably doesn't make a difference anyway. Gall just said, that the GC guys won't race today. They will finish, but not race.

 

[Nick2413]

Is Tour of Slovenia going to get pressured into calling off their descents today as well?

 

[Samamba]

Thing is plenty of people outside the sport (even certain cyclist themselves) have bashed the organization for putting a finish right after a descent and holding them responsible for Gino's tragic death. Like the peloton had not done a descent before in their lives and were victim of the organization wanting to put on a show with the Albula descent just for the sake of entertainment and jeopardizing cyclists safety in the process.

So TdS organizers must be scared something goings on again, or some sort of retailation if they introduce any descent from now on.

In my view there would only be two logical course of action at this moment:

Either you cancel the race altogether if cyclists are not prepared to go on on the planned race route (which would be acceptable) or resume the course the way it was planned.

I haven't seen a single rider apart from Evenepoel complain honestly? Ive even seen some riders literally say there was nothing wrong with the decent. Also like, people would've taken less risks when there was like 5k after the decent. No way.

It mostly people from outside (the so called analists) trying to score impressions (which is disgusting ofcourse).

I don't understand todays decision either tho.

 

[Rackham]

probably doesn't make a difference anyway. Gall just said, that the GC guys won't race today. They will finish, but not race.

If there's a race for the stage win, GC riders will get pulled along by the bunch at the speed of those who're pulling at the front of the peloton, unless all the GC teams agree to sit up.

But the top 9 are only separated by 2 minutes, so someone who isn't a 'GC rider' this morning could even inadvertently become one later just by following moves.
That's one reason among many why it's absurd to tamper with the race like this. Either they race, or they don't race. There's no in-between 'let's not race' compromise possible for some whilst others go for the stage win.

 

[glassmoon]

Right, so this clears up my previous question:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1670007305796984833

View: https://twitter.com/soudalquickstep/status/1670007305796984833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1670007305796984833%7Ctwgr%5Ea9c2c5b6db7eba83b1722f69ae92e008d5d66a10%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Flegruppetto.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D12t%3D19025start%3D1280


25km from the finish = before the Ottenberg climb... which means after a descent from the Engishalden & Braunau. I mean WTF.

so they moved the finish line from one descent to the other? wtf? why not put it at the summit of Ott ffs?

 

[glassmoon]

this is getting ridiculous pretty quick... why not call off the race entirely instead of this farce and panic?

 

[theyoungest]

If there's a race for the stage win, GC riders will get pulled along by the bunch at the speed of those who're pulling at the front of the peloton, unless all the GC teams agree to sit up.

But the top 9 are only separated by 2 minutes, so someone who isn't a 'GC rider' this morning could even inadvertently become one later just by following moves.
That's one reason among many why it's absurd to tamper with the race like this. Either they race, or they don't race. There's no in-between 'let's not race' compromise possible for some whilst others go for the stage win.

I agree. Either you race or you don't race. I understand where the organizers are coming from, they're finding themselves in a conundrum, but what you should not do in such a situation is change everything to the point that nobody really knows what they're doing anymore. You'd be better off (and safer) if you just race like you normally would.

What it's looking like now is that it will be soft-pedaling all the way to the final few kilometers. And that's actually more dangerous, because everyone arrives fresh for the finish, and speeds will be higher in a larger group.

 

[search]

list of non-starters, additional to Bahrain, Tudor and ICW:

DNS SCULLY Tom EF Education-EasyPost
DNS VAN DEN BERG Julius EF Education-EasyPost
DNS SCOTSON Miles Groupama - FDJ
DNS KÜNG Stefan Groupama - FDJ
DNS DÉMARE Arnaud Groupama - FDJ
DNS NEILANDS Krists Israel - Premier Tech
DNS SCHULTZ Nick Israel - Premier Tech
DNS IMPEY Daryl Israel - Premier Tech
DNS DENNIS Rohan Jumbo-Visma
DNS MONIQUET Sylvain Lotto Dstny
DNS VAN EETVELT Lennert Lotto Dstny
DNS SCHMID Mauro Soudal - Quick Step
DNS LOUVEL Matis Team Arkéa Samsic
DNS MCLAY Daniel Team Arkéa Samsic
DNS SIMMONS Quinn Trek - Segafredo
DNS HIRSCHI Marc UAE Team Emirates

edit: +Schär

 

[houtdffan]

Honestly I feel they should just cancel this year's race out of respect. Yesterday was a somber moment and a mourning stage, and they should leave it at that. Continuing the race would just show that "the show must go on", no matter what.

No!

The race has always went on after a 1 day pause. I could see if this were an amateur race, but not a professional race. They have a job to do, go do it. They need to battle through severe adversity

 

[Rackham]

I agree. Either you race or you don't race. I understand where the organizers are coming from, they're finding themselves in a conundrum, but what you should not do in such a situation is change everything to the point that nobody really knows what they're doing anymore. You'd be better off (and safer) if you just race like you normally would.

What it's looking like now is that it will be soft-pedaling all the way to the final few kilometers. And that's actually more dangerous, because everyone arrives fresh for the finish, and speeds will be higher in a larger group.

If the entire peloton has decided to soft pedal the entire stage until the final few km's, that's also something to take into account (i.e. treating the stage like the Champs-Elysées stage).

But then why freeze GC 25km from the finish if everyone agreed to not race? All that decision does is throw a bone at the crowd who're (since Thursday...) vocally campaigning against descent finishes in cycling. I really don't like the potential broader implications of this in future races (i.e. kowtowing to the latest outrage with a solution which will alter cycling forever, for the worse, & do nothing to actually make it safer).

 

[jonas334455]

Peleton still together, so I guess there is a general understanding to go together until those 25k and then those who like can race for the stage win and those who don't can sit back.
Under that point of view it's not a bad decision.

Tomorrow is the same thing, those who like can go full gas, those who don't just can do their race.

 

[Offline]

Still 113 riders left that want to race. So let them.
Some riders want to respect Mader by riding, others by leaving. I think both are correct.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Riders really cared a lot less when Bjorg Lambrecht died, because they all continued the race. I guess he just didn‘t get to make many friends before dying.

 

[peterfin]

What a mess. I understand that many riders are paralyzed and that teams and individuals should have the option to leave the race but I do expect professionalism from the organisers and UCI. If teams decide they can race, leave the race as is and only evaluate if certain extra safety measures are appropriate.

 

[jonas334455]

What a mess. I understand that many riders are paralyzed and that teams and individuals should have the option to leave the race but I do expect professionalism from the organisers and UCI. If teams decide they can race, leave the race as is and only evaluate if certain extra safety measures are appropriate.

That was an explicit wish from teams and riders to do it like this.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

list of non-starters, additional to Bahrain, Tudor and ICW:

DNS SCULLY Tom EF Education-EasyPost
DNS VAN DEN BERG Julius EF Education-EasyPost
DNS SCOTSON Miles Groupama - FDJ
DNS KÜNG Stefan Groupama - FDJ
DNS DÉMARE Arnaud Groupama - FDJ
DNS NEILANDS Krists Israel - Premier Tech
DNS SCHULTZ Nick Israel - Premier Tech
DNS IMPEY Daryl Israel - Premier Tech
DNS DENNIS Rohan Jumbo-Visma
DNS MONIQUET Sylvain Lotto Dstny
DNS VAN EETVELT Lennert Lotto Dstny
DNS SCHMID Mauro Soudal - Quick Step
DNS LOUVEL Matis Team Arkéa Samsic
DNS MCLAY Daniel Team Arkéa Samsic
DNS SIMMONS Quinn Trek - Segafredo
DNS HIRSCHI Marc UAE Team Emirates

edit: +Schär

Kung (from roughly same area as Mader, clearly knew his mother), Schmidt, Hirschi and Schar (perhaps more surprisingly,his final home tour) and Team Tudor are probably to be expected: I suspect the German-Swiss elite cycling community is quite small and all would know each other well over a long time.

I don't mean that any other DNSes as not justified, only that their connections are not as obvious, but I would have no knowledge of friendships within the peloton, or other riders' recent experiences of bereavement that have been stirred up again.

I guess that the Intermarche situation was just that so many decided that they didn't want to continue that it wasn't worth it for the remaining small number: looks like IPT and FdJ might have been near to that threshold too.

I would hope that teams who don't have anyone on this list had made it clear that riders could withdraw without any stain on their copybook.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

May as well not have a GC of the race if some riders want to race and some don't.

 

[Offline]

Riders really cared a lot less when Bjorg Lambrecht died, because they all continued the race. I guess he just didn‘t get to make many friends before dying.

Werid comment. And super misplaced talking about Mader vs Lambrecht.

And you can't put that way either.
The 113 riders that riding today dealing with it different than the 37 tiders that left. But for sure they all care.

 

[Samamba]

Ok if they're actually just going slow till the last 25 km it makes the race just more dangerous honestly. Really don't understand who thought this was the best way to go? There will be plenty of fresh riders going full on climb an decent to go for the stage win.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

I think there's 2 factors at play.

Riders wanna blame the course, or blame literally anything because it's an scary idea that it was just a rider making a mistake combined with the worst possible luck.

The organisation just wants to get this *** over with and is making any "compromise" it can to look like it's taking care of rider safety now.

The first part is IMO completely wrong. Riders are not wildly throwing blame around. They are mostly shocked and are not sure what to do.

The organization wants to finish it, sure.

The weird 25km GC time, continue for stage. The way Senn explained it, it's understandeable. Make sure all the riders are comfortable, those that don't want the stress in the final, high pace, bigger risk of crashes, don't need to be involved there. Makes sort of sense.

Obviously riders will feel more stressed, less sure than usual today (and for a while) The risk of something happening today if it's raced full power as usual is not bigger than in any other race, BUT riders (some) will feel more apprehensive than usual, the risk that is always there is more present in their mind right now, having to an intense final, having to stay in front because of possible crashes, splits, would be more stressful for them than it usually is. So give them the possibility to have another day off in the final, not to stress them out even more.

There's no right solution anyway, this one with Senn's explanation, cut the most stressful part from the stage, for the mental well-being of the riders, actually isn't as bad as I first thought...

Now of course it's up to the riders if they want to race or not, but I imagine riding a whole day at 25 km/h brooding over Mäder won't really help them, so hope they will make it a race.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Riders really cared a lot less when Bjorg Lambrecht died, because they all continued the race. I guess he just didn‘t get to make many friends before dying.

I have just looked it up, and am surprised to see that even Lambrecht's own team (Lotto Soudal) rode in the subsequent stages. (But different group dynamic, not suggesting that he was any less liked)

 

[Salvarani]

Psychologically the best thing would be if they started to race as normal as soon as they could.

 

[Samamba]

I have just looked it up, and am surprised to see that even Lambrecht's own team (Lotto Soudal) rode in the subsequent stages. (But different group dynamic, not suggesting that he was any less liked)

His family asked them to ride.

 

[gunara]

Road cycling, my favourite sport, a heartbreaker, a *** mess

 

[RedheadDane]

According to Kim Andersen, he had to tell Quinn Simmons to go home. Somehow that seems even sadder than riders deciding to go home themselves...