86th Tour de Suisse (2.UWT) // June 11th - 18th 2023

[Rackham]

yeah, I just asked for clarification, and they said the bonifactions remain as planed.

So there are 2x3s available right after the descent and 10s at the finish - unless they decice to change that the coming hours.

So the times are frozen 18km from the finish, but not really because a stage win can still make the difference in GC?

Got it. So any GC rider can & will still push on the descent to keep his advantage to the line because he has a reason to do so.

...

The decision is an ill conceived unprofessional mistake & reeks of the decisionmaker wanting to appear like they've done something to address "safety concerns" in cycling, all in the heat of the moment with zero reflection, consultation or sense. It's stuff like this which leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

 

[Red Rick]

So the times are frozen 18km from the finish, but not really because a stage win can still make the difference in GC?

Got it. So any GC rider can & will still push on the descent to keep his advantage to the line because he has a reason to do so.

...

The decision is an ill conceived unprofessional mistake & reeks of the decisionmaker wanting to appear like they've done something to address "safety concerns" in cycling, all in the heat of the moment with zero reflection, consultation or sense. It's stuff like this which leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

It's literally 100% empty gestures.

 

[theyoungest]

yeah, I just asked for clarification, and they said the bonifactions remain as planed.

So there are 2x3s available right after the descent and 10s at the finish - unless they decice to change that the coming hours.

Really? Then how does this make the race safer in any way? It makes it more chaotic, which is probably more dangerous.

 

[staubsauger]

yeah, I just asked for clarification, and they said the bonifactions remain as planed.

So there are 2x3s available right after the descent and 10s at the finish - unless they decice to change that the coming hours.

That's just nonsense then. If they'd put the Tissot kilometre on the Ottenberg so a favorite could gain 16 seconds with an attack towards the top, before neutralizing the race apart from either a sprint or a friend of Mäder being allowed to escape it would've made kinda sense.

 

[search]

After Bahrain and Tudor, also Wanty has decided not to start anymore today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669980493947781120

View: https://twitter.com/IntermarcheCW/status/1669980493947781120

 

[Brullnux]

I'm guessing Tour de Suisse's finances aren't great? This seems a desperate attempt to not break contracts with sponsors/towns while also compromising a very traumatised pelotón.

Best option to me seems to call the race off at this point. Rider welfare (mental more than physical at this point) should come first, I think

 

[wickedw]

So they move the GC finishing line.. except they don't because boni seconds... That's a special kind of stupid.

Either just move the finishing line completely then or remove all bonis after the top (I despise boni seconds anyway).

 

[theyoungest]

Best option to me seems to call the race off at this point. Rider welfare (mental more than physical at this point) should come first, I think

It's sad, but unfortunately there's predecent for this, the most recent one being the Tour de Pologne with Bjorg Lambrecht. And the race always goes on.

 

[search]

seems like plans have changed. Velopro (at the scene) now reports that there'll be no bonus seconds today.

 

[Rackham]

From PCS:

A message from the organiser:

After consultation with the PCP we confirm the following for today's stage:
- race will happen as planned on normal course and with the normal schedule
- it's a race
- time for GC will be taken at the 25km mark
- no bonus seconds will be awarded at the Tissot sprints
- no bonus seconds will be awarded at the finish line
- all other classification will be raced as normal.

This is the final decision on the topic. Thank you for your cooperation und understanding.

Wishing you a good race.

 

[Red Rick]

Did they turn a flat finish into something close to a descent finish for the GC guys?

 

[balac]

So, that's now a sprint stage with the new rules.

The 18,8 km rule could have stayed, that was decent and would have resulted in GC action for the climb. Oh well.

Only left to know is if Jumbo will pull on that climb to drop Merlier.

O

 

[Rackham]

Did they turn a flat finish into something close to a descent finish for the GC guys?

Maybe I'm dense but I find the "GC will be taken at 25km mark" pretty vague.

Is that at km 25 in the stage? Or 25km from the finish?

And there's still a stage win here so the final 18km aren't altered at all in terms of speeds, so I don't get the point of any of this. Not even in terms of symbolism does it make any sense.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Speaking of the 2019 Tour de Pologne, there was only one rider who didn't start the day after the Lambrecht tribute stage (you can probably guess his name), but I haven't been able to find a reason behind it.


TDS hasn't mentioned the 25 km neutralisation (yet), so for now it's still officially 18.8 km.

 

[glassmoon]

Is this still more of a tribute type thing to take it safe during this race, or are they going to start shutting down all descents in the last 40k of a stage for the rest of the calendar?

frankly if it turns out to be the latter then this sport is just over... even those who care and watch would stop eventually

 

[glassmoon]

seems like plans have changed. Velopro (at the scene) now reports that there'll be no bonus seconds today.

that, at least, would make some sense...

 

[Rackham]

I hate to be the guy to type this but Gino Mäder didn't crash because of a GC battle on a descent.

It was a horrible accident but I really don't get why the organizers are singling out GC for 'freezing' here & the rest just continues (stage win, points etc.). It does strictly nothing to alter the danger of descending in pro cycling.

 

[DNP-Old]

I hate to be the guy to type this but Gino Mäder didn't crash because of a GC battle on a descent.

It was a horrible accident but I really don't get why the organizers are singling out GC for 'freezing' here & the rest just continues (stage win, points etc.). It does strictly nothing to alter the danger of descending in pro cycling.

It's the decease of our time, where everything needs to have a point of blame or a scapegoat. There is little room for nuance, and we can't just live with the idea that something could happen due to bad luck, a mistake or an unfortunate turn of events.

 

[Riek s]

It's the decease of our time, where everything needs to have a point of blame or a scapegoat. There is little room for nuance, and we can't just live with the idea that something could happen due to bad luck, a mistake or an unfortunate turn of events.

It might be a bit more of a political quote, but your statement reminds me of it:

“As long as human beings are imperfect, there will always be arguments for extending the power of government to deal with these imperfections. The only logical stopping place is totalitarianism – unless we realize that tolerating imperfections is the price of freedom.” -- Thomas Sowell

 

[staubsauger]

that, at least, would make some sense...

Yep. There's a clear battle of the gc favorites up towards Ottenberg now, before they just sit up and only the sprinters do their race for the stage win.

Otherwise if someone like Ayuso would've managed to get a 10-12 seconds gap on top of Ottenberg, of course he would've sped down the descent to make it 16-18 seconds with the Tissot kilometre. Would've made positioning on the downhill even more dangerous with sprinters teams not willing to let a gc favorite go for the stage win then. And of course Skjelmose & Trek looking to reel in the attacker as well.

So this is some kind of working compromise given the circumstances IMHO!

We get a gc fight ahead of the TT and then it's only about the sprinters & stage win!

 

[Nick2413]

It's the decease of our time, where everything needs to have a point of blame or a scapegoat. There is little room for nuance, and we can't just live with the idea that something could happen due to bad luck, a mistake or an unfortunate turn of events.

It’s harsh but if we stopped the world for every tragic event there would be nothing to live for. A tribute has been payed, and now life goes on.

 

[Rackham]

Right, so this clears up my previous question:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1670007305796984833

View: https://twitter.com/soudalquickstep/status/1670007305796984833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1670007305796984833%7Ctwgr%5Ea9c2c5b6db7eba83b1722f69ae92e008d5d66a10%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Flegruppetto.fr%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D12t%3D19025start%3D1280


25km from the finish = before the Ottenberg climb... which means after a descent from the Engishalden & Braunau. I mean WTF.

 

[Netserk]

Honestly I feel they should just cancel this year's race out of respect. Yesterday was a somber moment and a mourning stage, and they should leave it at that. Continuing the race would just show that "the show must go on", no matter what.

Yes, and I think that's great. No matter how wicked death is, life must go on. That's the imperative that rests on all of us.

 

[Roku]

Thing is plenty of people outside the sport (even certain cyclist themselves) have bashed the organization for putting a finish right after a descent and holding them responsible for Gino's tragic death. Like the peloton had not done a descent before in their lives and were victim of the organization wanting to put on a show with the Albula descent just for the sake of entertainment and jeopardizing cyclists safety in the process.

So TdS organizers must be scared something goings on again, or some sort of retailation if they introduce any descent from now on.

In my view there would only be two logical course of action at this moment:

Either you cancel the race altogether if cyclists are not prepared to go on on the planned race route (which would be acceptable) or resume the course the way it was planned.

 

[Red Rick]

Thing is plenty of people outside the sport (even certain cyclist themselves) have bashed the organization for putting a finish right after a descent and holding them responsible for Gino's tragic death. Like the peloton had not done a descent before in their lives and were victim of the organization wanting to put on a show with the Albula descent just for the sake of entertainment and jeopardizing cyclists safety in the process.

So TdS organizers must be scared something goings on again, or some sort of retailation if they introduce any descent from now on.

In my view there would only be two logical course of action at this moment:

Either you cancel the race altogether if cyclists are not prepared to go on on the planned race route (which would be acceptable) or resume the course the way it was planned.

I think there's 2 factors at play.

Riders wanna blame the course, or blame literally anything because it's an scary idea that it was just a rider making a mistake combined with the worst possible luck.

The organisation just wants to get this *** over with and is making any "compromise" it can to look like it's taking care of rider safety now.