A Dave Millar thread

[fat_boy_fat]

Someone depending on appreciation so strongly will always be vulnerable to influence of any kind as long as it comes with some reward.

I’ve read his book and it was a hard read. It felt like he was still hiding things and some parts are clearly made up in order to make himself look better. The comment on Wiggins is a very strange element, but I think, they both might have had part in the process.

I got suspicious when his comments about Hein & Pat changed to criticism on Hein alone and urging Pat to start some changes. Maybe he thinks, that there will be no role for him in the UCI without Pat’s support.

Whoever will have a say in this: Make sure to keep him out. He will end as as corrupt as the present board. Just keep Millar out. He can do better things in other roles.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yes, probably some hard feelings about him not being able to ride for Sky, although in the book he does profess strong loyalty to Garmin. Kind of have to read between the lines a little. I imagine he felt slighted at not being able to ride for Sky.

Which is strange (ok to me it is) given Millar is a part-owner of Garmin and yet wanted to ride for Sky. Would he do that as a part-owner still? Surely that would be a conflict of interest?

The whole point of the ownership was to reinforce the "clean" ethos of Garmin.

And now that he hasn't had the chance - I bet he's thanking <insert deity of choice> that he isn't going through this new Sky saga, coz he has a past, patently, and would be ousted big time...

 

[ferryman]

Re the book. I'm sure Dave feels better having written it but after reading it a while ago I was left with the feeling he has so much more to tell. Maybe if he was writing now, post Lance getting busted, it would offer more.

 

[trailrunner]

Excellent post +1 Many thanks. Millar is a pro of the old school - deeply cynical and with no respect for the fans. I do wish the English speaking press would not give him oxygen.

Agreed. I've never quite understood why the press fawns all over him.

 

[irongrl]

Which is strange (ok to me it is) given Millar is a part-owner of Garmin and yet wanted to ride for Sky. Would he do that as a part-owner still? Surely that would be a conflict of interest?

The whole point of the ownership was to reinforce the "clean" ethos of Garmin.

And now that he hasn't had the chance - I bet he's thanking <insert deity of choice> that he isn't going through this new Sky saga, coz he has a past, patently, and would be ousted big time...

That is definitely true-he should be very happy not to have been on the Sky team. He would be in a world of hurt now if he had been.

 

[irongrl]

Re the book. I'm sure Dave feels better having written it but after reading it a while ago I was left with the feeling he has so much more to tell. Maybe if he was writing now, post Lance getting busted, it would offer more.

I was thinking about that too-how he would have written about Lance if he was writing the book now.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

Re the book. I'm sure Dave feels better having written it but after reading it a while ago I was left with the feeling he has so much more to tell. Maybe if he was writing now, post Lance getting busted, it would offer more.

agree on the Armstring thing. The way i read that section was that he knew a lot more but either he or his pulishers were scared of litigation.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

agree on the Armstring thing. The way i read that section was that he knew a lot more but either he or his pulishers were scared of litigation.

Lance is one of the few people that called Millar when he got caught. How many people does Lance call and offer emotional support to when they get caught, and what is their relationship with Lance?

Come to think of it, what does Lance usually say when he calls people who he associates with when they get caught?

Is it possible Lance called Millar and said, "Squeal and you're dead meat" and Millar reworded it slightly to "Lance called and said it's all going to be ok"?

 

[martinvickers]

That is definitely true-he should be very happy not to have been on the Sky team. He would be in a world of hurt now if he had been.

Bit of a non-sequitor. Given he was a very high profile doper prior to the invention of Sky - he would only have got on that team if Brailsford had adopted a Garmin like policy rather than ZT - in which case none, or very little, of this would be happening...

 

[peterst6906]

Come to think of it, what does Lance usually say when he calls people who he associates with when they get caught

Probably calls them a 'choad'.

Now it's Lance the Choad.

Choad Armstrong has a good ring to it. Same number of letters as Lance but rolls off the tongue better.

Choad Armstrong! ChoadStrong!

 

[BroDeal]

Re the book. I'm sure Dave feels better having written it but after reading it a while ago I was left with the feeling he has so much more to tell. Maybe if he was writing now, post Lance getting busted, it would offer more.

Millar's book is the Walt Disney version. Hamilton's is the Martin Scorcese version.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

Lance is one of the few people that called Millar when he got caught. How many people does Lance call and offer emotional support to when they get caught, and what is their relationship with Lance?

Come to think of it, what does Lance usually say when he calls people who he associates with when they get caught?

Is it possible Lance called Millar and said, "Squeal and you're dead meat" and Millar reworded it slightly to "Lance called and said it's all going to be ok"?

aye could be right that. Now that the facts are out its seems odd that Millar would call Armstrong out for not doing more to set an anti-doping example rather than over the stories everyone in the peloton must have heard.
Giving Millar the benefit of the doubt on this one I took from it that he or his publishers felt that was as far as they could push it; A missed opportunity.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

aye could be right that. Now that the facts are out its seems odd that Millar would call Armstrong out for not doing more to set an anti-doping example rather than over the stories everyone in the peloton must have heard.
Giving Millar the benefit of the doubt on this one I took from it that he or his publishers felt that was as far as they could push it; A missed opportunity.

Yes the libel laws in the UK are ridiculous if the examples presented are any indication - very omerta friendly.

 

[PremiereEtape]

I don't believe lance threatened him, instead it was a call of one doper to another. After all, they were probably quite good friends.

I think Millar did in the book what so many others would do if faced with the same problem : he stayed quiet and did his time, only loosely alluding to other parties involvement. Afterwards, not wishing to go the way of the other ex-dopers, he's reinvented himself as some kind of caped crusader.

I think Millar would be a nightmare for a position in the UCI, because he seems only to be concerned about setting up his own career and not rocking the boat.

Its going to need a brave person to run the UCI, someone who isnt afraid of riders or reputation, and is willing to speak up when things get tough. Millar is not that person.

 

[martinvickers]

Yes the libel laws in the UK are ridiculous if the examples presented are any indication - very omerta friendly.

Very true, sadly. Indeed, Northern Ireland is one of the libel capitals of the world, bizarrely. Paul Tweed is a recognised international expert.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1008/1224325008873.html

The only substantive difference between NI and England and Wales is that lawyers are a bit cheaper in NI. The same plaintiff friendly rules apply in London too. Which is one reason David Walsh published in France, not England.

So all I would say, as a ...fanboy...is don't assume people, e.g. Millar keep their mouth shut because they WANT to...sometimes they have been advised, and frankly, well advised, to do so. Certainly to my eye, that passage- "of course, etc..." - looks like a classic nudge nudge, implying what cant be safely made explicit.

 

[Benotti69]

Millar is a right egotistical c**t if this interview is anything to go by!

Calling Kimmage a fanatic!

Calling Kimmage 'good old Paul'!

Trying to pretend the UCI's criminal activity was the past and not still happening.

Millar the patron? When did that happen and if true the sport if truly f**ked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/05/david-millar-cycling

Guardian does it's usual joke of a job on cycling.

 

[bobbins]

Millar is a right egotistical c**t if this interview is anything to go by!

Calling Kimmage a fanatic!

Calling Kimmage 'good old Paul'!

Trying to pretend the UCI's criminal activity was the past and not still happening.

Millar the patron? When did that happen and if true the sport if truly f**ked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/05/david-millar-cycling

Guardian does it's usual joke of a job on cycling.

Pretty accurate summary. Could in fact be his Wikipedia entry.

How many riders have looked at Millar and thought that being caught doping doesn't really have a deterrent?

 

[Briant_Gumble]

I don't believe lance threatened him, instead it was a call of one doper to another. After all, they were probably quite good friends.

I think Millar did in the book what so many others would do if faced with the same problem : he stayed quiet and did his time, only loosely alluding to other parties involvement. Afterwards, not wishing to go the way of the other ex-dopers, he's reinvented himself as some kind of caped crusader.

I think Millar would be a nightmare for a position in the UCI, because he seems only to be concerned about setting up his own career and not rocking the boat.

Its going to need a brave person to run the UCI, someone who isnt afraid of riders or reputation, and is willing to speak up when things get tough. Millar is not that person.

Agreed after being busted, Millar said in an interview with Jeremy Whittle:

"I've realised who my real friends in cycling are: Baden Cooke, Matt Wilson, Stuart O'Grady, Bobby Julich and Lance".

Yet when Armstrong was staring into the barrel he had no problems throwing him under the bus.

It's very much in keeping with the character assessment of Millar as an opportunistic, self serving jerk.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Millar is a right egotistical c**t if this interview is anything to go by!

Calling Kimmage a fanatic!

Calling Kimmage 'good old Paul'!

Trying to pretend the UCI's criminal activity was the past and not still happening.

Millar the patron? When did that happen and if true the sport if truly f**ked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/05/david-millar-cycling

Guardian does it's usual joke of a job on cycling.

You read the comments and it is clear that British cycling fans are no better than the US fans c2001

It's the Guardian. They sold out long ago.

 

[martinvickers]

Millar is a right egotistical c**t if this interview is anything to go by!

Calling Kimmage a fanatic!

Calling Kimmage 'good old Paul'!

Trying to pretend the UCI's criminal activity was the past and not still happening.

Millar the patron? When did that happen and if true the sport if truly f**ked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/05/david-millar-cycling

Guardian does it's usual joke of a job on cycling.

Ach, come on B, that's a pretty selective way of quoting the interview - it's pretty clear he's praising Kimmage -

Don't **** with fanatics."

He says that last loaded word gently; for Millar understands how the commitment of Kimmage and David Walsh, who stood up to Armstrong, is fuelled by terrible pain and injustice. "The sport has made Paul a fanatic because it absolutely vilified him. Paul loves cycling. He grew up with the sport but it burned him so badly. He was ostracised and got treated like a **** by so many people – me included – for 20 years. Now all this stuff about Armstrong came out and, suddenly, he was right all along. He's right to still be angry. I'm not sure it's good for him but maybe Paul will be the one to make a difference with the UCI. And here's the beautiful irony. That fanatical voice has been the voice of reason through all this.

Millar rocks with mirth. "That was pure Kimmage. But the bottom line is this: don't **** off Paul.

So Verbruggen and McQuaid made a huge mistake. It says so much about them. When I heard about their legal action I wanted to say: 'You do realise this is Paul Kimmage?'

"I thought, 'Brilliant. Good old Paul.' The moment McQuaid and Verbruggen sued Paul they were unleashing the dogs of hell on themselves.

You have some important stuff to say, B, but to take those quotes THAT far out of context just because you don't like Millar undermines your own reputation. Maybe Millars a white hat, maybe a black hat. Don't know. Don't really care.

But your post was just not, in context, honest. You need to be better than that to have any important things you say taken seriously.

 

[Benotti69]

You read the comments and it is clear that British cycling fans are no better than the US fans c2001

It's the Guardian. They sold out long ago.

I read the comments on one cycling article in the guardian and half were deleted. I guess they all mentioned doping.

Since then i haven't bothered.

 

[Benotti69]

Ach, come on B, that's a pretty selective way of quoting the interview - it's pretty clear he's praising Kimmage -

It is the manner of his praise that totally is not respectful. Calling kimmage a fanatic and good old Paul is totally and condescending and totally in line with Millar and JV, 2 self important self assigned saviours of the sport.

You have some important stuff to say, B, but to take those quotes THAT far out of context just because you don't like Millar undermines your own reputation. Maybe Millars a white hat, maybe a black hat. Don't know. Don't really care.

But your post was just not, in context, honest. You need to be better than that to have any important things you say taken seriously.

Millar needs Kimmage now more than Kimmage needs him.

Millar playing politics right now is depiscable. Millar is doing what Millar does best, making Millar look good and trying to steal others thunder and credit.

 

[martinvickers]

Millar playing politics right now is depiscable. Millar is doing what Millar does best, making Millar look good and trying to steal others thunder and credit.

See, that's what i meant a few weeks ago by conspiracy theory - the result is already decided and all evidence is simply bent to fit it.

No doubt if Millar had said nothing it would probably be "why is Millar ignoring Kimmage, how disrespectful, omerta, omerta, omerta..."

Millar is part owner of a team, and part of WADA - I'm sorry if you don't like it, but it DOES give him a position to discuss the matter from. I make no judgement on whether he's a white or black hat - I've no way of knowing, and I rather doubt you do either - but this level of animus just...well, it's the sort of thing gives the clinic a bad name AND REDUCES ITS USEFULNESS.

you have to ask what's more important to you - fixing the sport, or getting your bile out - because currently, it seems to be the latter - in which case what value do you bring?

"the manner of the praise is disrespectful"

-

Seriously? It takes some pretty serious mental gymnastics to find people giving praise disrespectful, especially when you read the quotes IN FULL.


What I find most bizarre is the complete lack of similar animus against Bjarne Riis, for example, for whom there's not inconsiderable evidence not only of doping, but of continued support of doping as a DS (hamilton's book) - no such evidence exists against Millar or Garmin - one might almost think there' some weird anti-brit thing going on or something. In any event, it's not terribly useful.

 

[blackcat]

You read the comments and it is clear that British cycling fans are no better than the US fans c2001

It's the Guardian. They sold out long ago.

pretty stoopid then, cos they may have sold out, but every annual report they are US$50 mill in the red. That is the P&L Manchester Guardian's Scott trust does not have the B/S of Sulzberger

 

[blackcat]

Seriously? It takes some pretty serious mental gymnastics to find people giving praise disrespectful, especially when you read the quotes IN FULL.

think it is a hint at Millar lacking universality and rigour. Some like Landis, are targets for invective. Some like Armstrong, not so. Some like Wiggins, and Sky, apotheosis. When anyone watching cycling thru the prism of history can appreciate what their eyes are telling them.

There are conflicts, and oscillations from criminals to heroes. You get Saunier, Ricco, Landis, and then Wiggins, Sky, Armstrong.

I cant see any difference in the 6 examples I just typed, but Millar sees opposites and absolutes. But this is false. Millar knows.

In these scenario(s) any compliment given is disingenuous, and not authentic on the level of truth.