A pair of David Walsh interviews - Clinic Edition

[martinvickers]

FYI

Two interviews of David Walsh; one an interview of Walsh, the other an interview of Bradley Wiggins by Walsh. Doping and sky touched on in both.

1. VeloVeritas interviewing David Walsh on Sky, USPS, doping and Dan Martin

2. David Walsh inteviews Bradley Wiggins on Kimmage, Landis, doping and Froome.

This thread is linked with this thread, which links to the same two interviews for non-Clinic purposes.

 

[Roude Leiw]

What annoys me most when i read that 2nd article (you got to pay for the 1st one) is the "all you have to to is ride at 400 watts to win" attitude. This makes the other contenders / teams:

a) look stupid, because it implies they don't get that, bloody mo rons that they are
b) that it is quite easy to do just that
c) that it is no problem to perform like this in a clean way, because you can train and it is a TT etc. and the other teams still train like they were in the 1940

It just makes me sick

 

[argyllflyer]

What annoys me most when i read that 2nd article (you got to pay for the 1st one) is the "all you have to to is ride at 400 watts to win" attitude. This makes the other contenders / teams:

a) look stupid, because it implies they don't get that, bloody mo rons that they are
b) that it is quite easy to do just that
c) that it is no problem to perform like this in a clean way, because you can train and it is a TT etc. and the other teams still train like they were in the 1940

It just makes me sick

About your list, that's EXACTLY what Tim Kerrison is stating in a British paper yesterday.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/27/tim-kerrison-bradley-wiggins-team-sky

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/27/bradley-wiggins-giro-tim-kerrison?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

I do seem to recall Dowsett's surprise at the lack of a pre-season training camp at Movistar, the reason being they trusted their riders to turn up fit and they all lived in good climates.

 

[Roude Leiw]

About your list, that's EXACTLY what Tim Kerrison is stating in a British paper yesterday.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/27/tim-kerrison-bradley-wiggins-team-sky

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/27/bradley-wiggins-giro-tim-kerrison?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

I do seem to recall Dowsett's surprise at the lack of a pre-season training camp at Movistar, the reason being they trusted their riders to turn up fit and they all lived in good climates.

I know that, you really think that (all doping issues aside), that the likes of Quintana/Piti/Costa are just sitting on their butts feasting away during the whole of winter? I suppose that they do train, with or without a training camp. I suppose that they do have training plans of how many km to do and when and what kind of specific training they have to perform until when.

You don't need to lock everyone down on some small island in the atlantic where no one can find you to train correctly.

This is exactly the attitude which makes me sick, this arrogance that WE the british, we show everybody how it is done, because you ALL have no clue as to how to train properly, no clue about the (legal) science behind the sport, measuring wattage is important and you don't do that.

Some friends of mine have power meters for our group rides since years, they don't even race and i don't believe that they dope to get the bloody hill up faster than myself, because that is all the competition there is for us. If they have it, don't tell me that this magical tool was discovered by SKY in 2011 and that they are the only ones to be able to work with them

 

[bianchigirl]

What a clueless analysis from kerrison - as if gewiss, festina and USPS only had little budgets so were forced to dope. Facts, mr kerrison - all the dominant teams have had big budgets & used most scientific methods - festina used SRM data, FFS - doping was just another way to help them train harder & smarter.

Obviously I'm not the only one sick & tired of sky treating real fans like idiots. Looking forward to seeing them publish that medical info - perhaps garmin could set a precedent by doing so?

 

[thehog]

I do seem to recall Dowsett's surprise at the lack of a pre-season training camp at Movistar, the reason being they trusted their riders to turn up fit and they all lived in good climates.

Skybot myth #345 - Other teams don't have pre-season training camps.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...r-new-signing-to-be-presented-on-Tuesday.aspx


http://www.ciclocostablanca.com/index.php/the-hotel/albir-garden-hotel/location#.UXzIcWS9Kc0

But don't let your bias get in the way of spinning yarns on this site.

 

[leon7766]

What a clueless analysis from kerrison - as if gewiss, festina and USPS only had little budgets so were forced to dope. Facts, mr kerrison - all the dominant teams have had big budgets & used most scientific methods - festina used SRM data, FFS - doping was just another way to help them train harder & smarter.

Obviously I'm not the only one sick & tired of sky treating real fans like idiots. Looking forward to seeing them publish that medical info - perhaps garmin could set a precedent by doing so?

Clueless is when you lead your team to defeat

 

[bianchigirl]

Ok, his analysis of team wide doping in the peloton is absolute bollox - better?

 

[leon7766]

Skybot myth #345 - Other teams don't have pre-season training camps.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...r-new-signing-to-be-presented-on-Tuesday.aspx


http://www.ciclocostablanca.com/index.php/the-hotel/albir-garden-hotel/location#.UXzIcWS9Kc0

But don't let your bias get in the way of spinning yarns on this site.

After the track domination and latterly on the road you would think everyone else would learn but they simply dont
Train hard train clean
Win hard win clean


I had to laugh when you mentioned bias getting in the way.
Irony its like coppery

 

[leon7766]

Ok, his analysis of team wide doping in the peloton is absolute bollox - better?

Sorry I havent read the piece .Perhaps it may mean he knows nothing about doping and being put along side the fact that Sky are clean it makes sense

 

[frenchfry]

Training harder and smarter was an integal part of the myth.

The main difference is the hand washing. Those who really want to be successful in cycling hire swimming coaches to lead hand washing seminars on isolated islands. Other cyclists let their hands get dirty because they aren't dedicated enough to apply modern technology.

 

[keithmcmahon]

The Wiggins interview in the Sunday Times was very interesting:

1. links his anti-doping stance to his dad's doping which sent his dad crazy. He couldn't do the same.

2. admitted he was wrong when attacked Landis in 2010. Never believed that Zabriskie/Barry were dopers (because they were also-rans) before they confessed.

3. Most interesting - this year is not a Giro project, it is a Giro/Tour project. He will be going for the win in the Tour (without ruining Froome's chances). Still bitter about Froome's attacks in the Pyrennese last year.

 

[Roude Leiw]

Sorry I havent read the piece .

Thats sloppy at best, commenting on something you did not even bother to read

 

[Libertine Seguros]

After the track domination and latterly on the road you would think everyone else would learn but they simply dont
Train hard train clean
Win hard win clean


I had to laugh when you mentioned bias getting in the way.
Irony its like coppery

I'm sure Marc Madiot would love to hear about how the reason FDJ aren't dominating the entire season for the last decade is that he didn't train his riders hard enough. If Froome telling us he's never been in a wind tunnel is accurate, then Madiot is actually doing more from the sports science side of things than Sky (Madiot quoted in 2010 on the endless "look at the advances made by Sky" news articles - "I put riders in wind tunnels too. Difference is, I don't have to put out a press release about it").

 

[argyllflyer]

Alex Dowsett to Cycle Sport Magazine, Feb 2013 edition:

On likely differences between Sky and Movistar:

I think there will be a lot of big differences. One of the big ones was when I sat down with Movistar and said "What's the training plan for the camp?"

With Sky, they book out a four or five star hotel in Majorca for eight weeks and have you rotate. They've taken the typical pro-cycling training camp and made it better.

Movistar, in complete contrast, said: "Most of our guys live in warm climates so we don't have any training camps because you guys are away from home enough as it is, and we see it as added stress, added time away from your family and friends. We rely on you to turn up fit."

Anyway, to completely disregard the approach Sky *say* they are taking is to assume that training methods are uniform across the peloton, and that absolutely nothing can be done to improve on what currently manifests itself as cyclist training. It also assumes that if anyone did adopt different training methods, they'd have zero effect and that any riders who are consistently winning races in 2013 are dopers. I'll just go and grab that Queen CD...

 

[argyllflyer]

I'm sure Marc Madiot would love to hear about how the reason FDJ aren't dominating the entire season for the last decade is that he didn't train his riders hard enough. If Froome telling us he's never been in a wind tunnel is accurate, then Madiot is actually doing more from the sports science side of things than Sky (Madiot quoted in 2010 on the endless "look at the advances made by Sky" news articles - "I put riders in wind tunnels too. Difference is, I don't have to put out a press release about it").

Walsh would suggest the reason FDJ weren't very successful in recent times was down to the amount of dopers in the peloton. They've got more stage wins and GC success than any other French team this season in WT, HC and .1 races, Europcar a very close second.

 

[thehog]

Alex Dowsett to Cycle Sport Magazine, Feb 2013 edition:

On likely differences between Sky and Movistar:



Anyway, to completely disregard the approach Sky *say* they are taking is to assume that training methods are uniform across the peloton, and that absolutely nothing can be done to improve on what currently manifests itself as cyclist training. It also assumes that if anyone did adopt different training methods, they'd have zero effect and that any riders who are consistently winning races in 2013 are dopers. I'll just go and grab that Queen CD...

Sounds like Alex wasn't invited.

Taking advantage from the first pre-season camp held in mid November in the outskirts of Pamplona, the new work system was presented to the riders, who were assessed with the aim of extracting their batch data biomecanical, nutritional data and sporting habits to define their individual work plans.

http://www.movistarteam.com/news/2013-1-4/crc-joins-movistar-team-staff

 

[BroDeal]

2. admitted he was wrong when attacked Landis in 2010. Never believed that Zabriskie/Barry were dopers (because they were also-rans) before they confessed.

Garmin's entire team is filled with dopers (ex-dopers if you think the team are legit.) Does anyone think that no one mentioned this to Wiggins during the entire time he was on the team? Vaughters says he is completely honest with his riders. Was Wiggins too thick to figure out that if there was teamwide doping on Postal when Vaughters was on the team and Postal's performance got better and better as the years went by then Zabriskie and Barry and Danielson and Hesjedal and all the other ex-Posties were undoubtedly on the program?

This waker is still lying. This is not a little lie. It is an insulting Lance-like whopper that he figures he can tell because no one in the press will dare call him on it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Walsh would suggest the reason FDJ weren't very successful in recent times was down to the amount of dopers in the peloton. They've got more stage wins and GC success than any other French team this season in WT, HC and .1 races, Europcar a very close second.

Which is precisely my point. Leon the Wonderlance-lite wants to argue that training hard and training clean translates to winning clean, but FDJ train hard and have a good reputation for cleanliness, so why aren't they bossing the calendar? I mean the World Calendar, not winning .1 races like the GP Plumelec and the GP Porte de Hainault.

 

[keithmcmahon]

Garmin's entire team is filled with dopers (ex-dopers if you think the team are legit.) Does anyone think that no one mentioned this to Wiggins during the entire time he was on the team? Vaughters says he is completely honest with his riders. Was Wiggins too thick to figure out that if there was teamwide doping on Postal when Vaughters was on the team and Postal's performance got better and better as the years went by then Zabriskie and Barry and Danielson and Hesjedal and all the other ex-Posties were undoubtedly on the program?

This waker is still lying. This is not a little lie. It is an insulting Lance-like whopper that he figures he can tell because no one in the press will dare call him on it.

Michael Barry never rode for Garmin. I would have liked the interview to have covered him more. After he signed the Sky no-doping policy and Brailsford asked him if the Landis allegation (truths) about barry were true. Barry denied.

Wiggins in the interview said he didn't think Barry was a doper because of cycling background and his non-performance (never being on TdF team)

Wiggins also said Lance was a powerful figure in the peloton in 2010 and it was easier to say Landis is crazy. It was a throwaway comment made in a stressful tour where wiggo was underperforming.

 

[argyllflyer]

Which is precisely my point. Leon the Wonderlance-lite wants to argue that training hard and training clean translates to winning clean, but FDJ train hard and have a good reputation for cleanliness, so why aren't they bossing the calendar? I mean the World Calendar, not winning .1 races like the GP Plumelec and the GP Porte de Hainault.

Because there are different natural levels of talent, before doping gets involved. The teams with the big budgets can afford to buy the best talent. Whether they are doped or not thereafter is another matter but the simple fact is that if you made a list of the top 10 sprinters, top 10 rouleurs, top 10 puncheurs and top 10 climbers, very few would be racing for FDJ.

 

[thehog]

Wiggins also said Lance was a powerful figure in the peloton in 2010 and it was easier to say Landis is crazy. It was a throwaway comment made in a stressful tour where wiggo was underperforming.

No it wasn't a throwaway comment.

He said it several times and not at the Tour. He wasn't under stress. It was premeditated.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-calls-for-biological-passport-data-to-be-made-public

 

[xcleigh]

then Madiot is actually doing more from the sports science side of things than Sky (Madiot quoted in 2010 on the endless "look at the advances made by Sky" news articles - "I put riders in wind tunnels too. Difference is, I don't have to put out a press release about it").

Marc Madiot does understand why a company sponsors a team and why one might press release about their activities? It's simply getting the name out there as much as is possible.

Sports Science is more than just wind tunnels. I think most would think of sports science as related to coaching and training as well and perhaps it's here that SKY have the edge. Who knows? I really don't know.

 

[Netserk]

@thehog

Is that a new record (fastest) debunking a sky myth?

 

[keithmcmahon]

No it wasn't a throwaway comment.

He said it several times and not at the Tour. He wasn't under stress. It was premeditated.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-calls-for-biological-passport-data-to-be-made-public

That interview is more subtle than you suggest

Quoting Wiggo:
"All the other stuff that’s come on with Landis and things like that is one for the courts and whether the truth will ever come out is down to this investigation. I think time will tell with that."

I read someone who has been various versions of what happened. He is hoping for the truth to come out.

In time it did...