A pair of David Walsh interviews - Clinic Edition

[Le Baroudeur]

SkybotA553737272b attack messenger. Don't address post. Skybot attack messenger.

In all honesty it apears that's what you thrive upon, rather than trying to establish any credible doubt to Team Sky's domination of the sport.

A simple presntation of known concerns and facts would add far more creibility to the cause than page upon page of engagement in mind numbing banter?

1948 Olympics
The Olympic Medal Drought.
Jürgen Gröbler,
Cameron
Gert Lienders,
Etc.

 

[thehog]

In all honesty it apears that's what you thrive upon, rather than trying to establish any credible doubt to Team Sky's domination of the sport.

A simple presntation of known concerns and facts would add far more creibility to the cause than page upon page of engagement in mind numbing banter?

1948 Olympics
The Olympic Medal Drought.
Jürgen Gröbler,
Cameron
Gert Lienders,
Etc.

I did present facts.

Wiggins claims he made his Landis statements as a "throwaway" at the Tour.

I proved he didn't.

They were premeditated and not said at the Tour.

How do you like them apples?

 

[pmcg76]

The Wiggins interview in the Sunday Times was very interesting:

1. links his anti-doping stance to his dad's doping which sent his dad crazy. He couldn't do the same.

2. admitted he was wrong when attacked Landis in 2010. Never believed that Zabriskie/Barry were dopers (because they were also-rans) before they confessed.

3. Most interesting - this year is not a Giro project, it is a Giro/Tour project. He will be going for the win in the Tour (without ruining Froome's chances). Still bitter about Froome's attacks in the Pyrennese last year.

No 2 about not believing that Barry/Zabriskie were dopers because they were also-ran's is just straight BS. When Cofidis were ejected from the Tour and Brad was seething, it was because of Christian Moreni who was hardly a household name in the world of cycling so for Wiggin's to then suggest the crap rider's don't dope line is just crazy-talk. Zabriskie was hardly an also-ran either, Tdf prologue winner amongst other things.

 

[The Hitch]

I did present facts.

Wiggins claims he made his Landis statements as a "throwaway" at the Tour.

I proved he didn't.

They were premeditated and not said at the Tour.

How do you like them apples?

You then devalue your one valid contribution with all the other crap.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

I did present facts.

Wiggins claims he made his Landis statements as a "throwaway" at the Tour.

I proved he didn't.

They were premeditated and not said at the Tour.

How do you like them apples?

Then cut n paste them apples... Nothing at all against good quality apples.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Golden oldie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6v0qlliFq8U

It is still funny.

 

[hfer07]

so appears that David Walsh has just given in......

Is understandable to give up the fight, after such burden carried over the LA saga, so at this point David rather plays along than wearing the gloves once more-after all- Wiggo is neither winning 7 TDF titles or lasting that long to deny him a taste of success in the name of the UK.......

 

[manafana]

If you think Martin is doped then theirs no hope for cycling full stop, as while peleton is likely at it , Garmin and JV have been one of big movers to the movement for clean cycling.

On Walsh, sky are no mugs and were always going play this by their rules.

 

[Ripper]

Signing young talent and developing them is not the same as signing proven talent and having ongoing success. FDJ's best riders move on elsewhere for (in theory) greater success. BMC and Sky are very different propositions. BMC seems like a social club, Sky is more like a borstal... going by what seems to be the perception of how the two teams are ran. Give an idiot a million and he'll lose it. Give a genius a million and he'll use it to make double.

Sky's approach seems to be to buy in stage race talent that can be improved upon, but this year they have blatantly also gone for people they know will fit into the current model such as Lopez, Kiryienka and Cataldo. They're all riders other WT teams would gladly have in among their climbing squads.

If the 5 Sky riders who would want to be a leader in their own right all entered a major stage race in separate teams as team leader, they'd be at the right end of the GC. To say otherwise is an outright lie. The only place Sky sorely lack major winning talent presently is in the sprint department, but that doesn't seem to be a major concern for them.

Sky has not gone and bought the best talent. Interestingly, some good talent seems to make a giant leap while at Sky.

FCS, neither Wiggo nor Froome showed "great" road racing talent. They showed talent, but not great talent. Froome showed the ability to be good, not great. Wiggo showed major talent on the track (small pond to be a big fish in) but nothing major on the road.

But nevertheless, we all hear about how they bought these superstars and developed them further because of course they were not training properly, eating properly, etc.

The extremes are such a joke. Of course Sky are not a bunch of donkeys. To take that position is silly. But "great" talents? That's absurd! But some folks choose to believe in unicorns and other crap.

I love nationalistic "voting".

BTW - there are never any Canadians who dope (had to roll the eyes twice, just had to)

 

[leon7766]

so appears that David Walsh has just given in......

Is understandable to give up the fight, after such burden carried over the LA saga, so at this point David rather plays along than wearing the gloves once more-after all- Wiggo is neither winning 7 TDF titles or lasting that long to deny him a taste of success in the name of the UK.......

By that you mean Sky are clean and you cant accept it

 

[keithmcmahon]

The point which was made in the interview regarding the comments Wiggo made about Landis:

"Wiggins, who could have stayed clear of the debate, chose instead to run with the mob that attacked Landis, questioning the former Postal rider’s mental state and suggesting that only a crazed man would say the things Landis was saying. For someone watching from a distance, the obvious question was why would Wiggins, who most people considered clean, defend a cheat such as Armstrong?

He is embarrassed by the memory but attempts to explain how it happened that he too tried to discredit Landis."

In other words Walsh thinks Wiggo could/should have said nothing and Wiggo is embarrassed by what he said.

After a couple of more paragraphs of an admittedly feeble attempt for justification.

“Then you get asked about Floyd and feel like you’re in a gang and you say what everyone in the gang is saying. You become part of that, because it’s easier. A lot of people look really stupid now, as do some of the comments I made.”

Personally, I am glad that Wiggo has admitted that he said some idiotic things in the past.

Time to move on...

 

[hrotha]

Time to move on? Far from it. According to JV, Wiggins knew the truth at the time. And Wiggins just outright admitted he said that because of omertà (what else do you call "being scared of speaking out because the doper is too powerful and speaking out is inconvenient, and sticking to the gang"?).

 

[Navigator]

I fully understand Wiggins' position. Most in the sport and cycling media knew there was something in what Landis was saying - cycling culture during the era was well known about - but for Landis to come out in the way he did, after years of fighting to retain his win, just for whistle blower money and revenge on Armstrong for not being put on the team, was seen as pretty crappy. By 2010 the Armstrong wins seemed like a settled issue - why spoil it now and ruin the careers of so many other riders, so many fans around the world, just because Landis didn't like the comeback?

Landis was indeed acting very crazy on twitter, like the whole thing was a big game, which obviously went down like a lead balloon with serious professional people in the sport. http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...ter-War-Against-Lance-Armstrong.html?page=all

Serious people feared this whole affair would overshadow the sport for years and do huge damage to its image. You'd have to say their fears have been vindicated. Three years on, the wreckage is ongoing and for very little gain. Given all the above context, you can hardly blame Wiggins and others for reacting like they did.

Lastly, remember too that Landis was claiming, without any knowledge, that Garmin was Postal mark 2 and that Wiggins was doping. Landis' wide smear brush severely annoyed a lot of people. The idea that everybody was going to rush to the aid of a guy smearing them and acting like an internet crank pot is fairly far fetched. Most of us would have done the same.

 

[thehog]

The point which was made in the interview regarding the comments Wiggo made about Landis:

"Wiggins, who could have stayed clear of the debate, chose instead to run with the mob that attacked Landis, questioning the former Postal rider’s mental state and suggesting that only a crazed man would say the things Landis was saying. For someone watching from a distance, the obvious question was why would Wiggins, who most people considered clean, defend a cheat such as Armstrong?

He is embarrassed by the memory but attempts to explain how it happened that he too tried to discredit Landis."

In other words Walsh thinks Wiggo could/should have said nothing and Wiggo is embarrassed by what he said.

After a couple of more paragraphs of an admittedly feeble attempt for justification.

“Then you get asked about Floyd and feel like you’re in a gang and you say what everyone in the gang is saying. You become part of that, because it’s easier. A lot of people look really stupid now, as do some of the comments I made.”

Personally, I am glad that Wiggo has admitted that he said some idiotic things in the past.

Time to move on...

But he wasn't asked about Landis.

He offered the information in his defence of Armstrong.

He'd hedged his bets that Armstrong wasn't going down.

Barry and Z had nothing to do it. Z was Landis's best friend. What the hell was Wiggins doing entering that debate?

He was defending his lover. That's what he was doing.

Idiot. And no we shouldn't move on.

If USADA wash successful Wiggins would stil be singing the tune.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-calls-for-biological-passport-data-to-be-made-public

 

[thehog]

I fully understand Wiggins' position. Most in the sport and cycling media knew there was something in what Landis was saying - cycling culture during the era was well known about - but for Landis to come out in the way he did, after years of fighting to retain his win, just for whistle blower money and revenge on Armstrong for not being put on the team, was seen as pretty crappy. By 2010 the Armstrong wins seemed like a settled issue - why spoil it now and ruin the careers of so many other riders, so many fans around the world, just because Landis didn't like the comeback?

Landis was indeed acting very crazy on twitter, like the whole thing was a big game, which obviously went down like a lead balloon with serious professional people in the sport. http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...ter-War-Against-Lance-Armstrong.html?page=all

Serious people feared this whole affair would overshadow the sport for years and do huge damage to its image. You'd have to say their fears have been vindicated. Three years on, the wreckage is ongoing and for very little gain. Given all the above context, you can hardly blame Wiggins and others for reacting like they did.

Lastly, remember too that Landis was claiming, without any knowledge, that Garmin was Postal mark 2 and that Wiggins was doping. Landis' wide smear brush severely annoyed a lot of people. The idea that everybody was going to rush to the aid of a guy smearing them and acting like an internet crank pot is fairly far fetched. Most of us would have done the same.

You need to check your facts. Landis said nothing about Wiggins until BW thought wise to start questioning alcohol!

All in defence of Lance. His lover.

What damaged the sport was Armstrong. Not Landis.

Wiggins didn't help either making sure the omertà ruled.

 

[keithmcmahon]

Time to move on? Far from it. According to JV, Wiggins knew the truth at the time. And Wiggins just outright admitted he said that because of omertà (what else do you call "being scared of speaking out because the doper is too powerful and speaking out is inconvenient, and sticking to the gang"?).

Wiggo has admitted what he said was wrong and he is embarrassed by it all now.

Does it really matter that Wiggo was a member of the Omerta-peloton? So were a lot of others.

What more can Wiggo do?

I suppose a personal apology to Landis.

 

[keithmcmahon]

But he wasn't asked about Landis.

He offered the information in his defence of Armstrong.

He'd hedged his bets that Armstrong wasn't going down.

Barry and Z had nothing to do it. Z was Landis's best friend. What the hell was Wiggins doing entering that debate?

He was defending his lover. That's what he was doing.

Idiot. And no we shouldn't move on.

If USADA wash successful Wiggins would stil be singing the tune.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-calls-for-biological-passport-data-to-be-made-public

In the David Walsh interview in yesterday's Sunday Times, Wiggo was asked why he attacked Landis. Wiggo said he was wrong and is currently embarrassed by it.

Linking to a Cycling News story doesn't really help here because as Wiggo himself says - it was all rubbish.

 

[hrotha]

Wiggo has admitted what he said was wrong and he is embarrassed by it all now.

Does it really matter that Wiggo was a member of the Omerta-peloton? So were a lot of others.

What more can Wiggo do?

I suppose a personal apology to Landis.

Of course it matters that Wiggins was part of the omertà in 2011, because he wasn't in 2007. What changed in between?

 

[Navigator]

You need to check your facts. Landis said nothing about Wiggins until BW thought wise to start questioning alcohol!

All in defence of Lance. His lover.

What damaged the sport was Armstrong. Not Landis.

Wiggins didn't help either making sure the omertà ruled.

That's a pejorative way of putting it, but yes, there is one guy who won the tour seven times, a huge figure in the sport. There is another guy said to have a drink problem who brags about having lots of sock accounts on the internet, claims Garmin is Postal mark II and is trying to take down the sport.

Hmmmm. The choice is all yours....

 

[hrotha]

That's a pejorative way of putting it, but yes, there is one guy who won the tour seven times, a huge figure in the sport. There is another guy said to have a drink problem who brags about having lots of sock accounts on the internet, claims Garmin is Postal mark II and is trying to take down the sport.

Hmmmm. The choice is all yours....

WIGGINS KNEW THE TRUTH. How many times do I have to mention this? You think Landis's allegations came out of nowhere?

 

[Benotti69]

By that you mean Sky are clean and you cant accept it

Walsh didn't find out Armstrong was doping by being embedded with USPS. He wont find Sky are doping by being embedded with them either. Brailsford is trying to be clever by getting Walsh close and keeping an eye on him.

Sky will have studied USPS/Armstrong's errors and ensured they wont make the same mistakes. All ex employees will have been treated very well. Sky don't have a person like Armstrong to start with and that is half the battle to keep the doping quiet. Armstrongs biggest opponents in his downfall were 2 women, Betsy and Emma. That Stephen Swart decided to clear his conscience was good too and definitely helped others eventually come forward, but Walsh will be extemely fortunate to have lightening strike twice.

It will eventually out about their 'marginal gains' but we may have to wait a long time. But fans have been down this path before.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Sky fans don't want to admit the truth and try to spin it around.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Wiggo has admitted what he said was wrong and he is embarrassed by it all now.

Does it really matter that Wiggo was a member of the Omerta-peloton? So were a lot of others.

What more can Wiggo do?

I suppose a personal apology to Landis.

most of the stuff Sir Wiggo say is just worthless garbage, in this way he's not too different than other pro cyclists.

I do find him funnier than most however.

 

[thehog]

In the David Walsh interview in yesterday's Sunday Times, Wiggo was asked why he attacked Landis. Wiggo said he was wrong and is currently embarrassed by it.

Linking to a Cycling News story doesn't really help here because as Wiggo himself says - it was all rubbish.

Thanks.

Same article. Passport to made public. I guess thus rubbish as well.

And being clean. Rubbish? Or is that the truth?

Never doping because of the kids. Rubbish?

Hard to believe anything he says.

It's all a bit too convenient don't you think?

 

[keithmcmahon]

I agree 100%.

We are in for a summer of fun, especially in the build up to the Tour de France.

The best bits will be the David Walsh embedded exclusives behind the Sunday Times paywall that hardly anyone actually reads but everyone analyses to death.