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A Question About Indurain...

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armstrong

armstrong

Jul 8, 2009
82
0
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Hi folks

Despite the name/avatar, I'm not that versed in the details of the sport. I'm not sure if I'm breaching sacred ground here but I'd thought I'd ask here.

It's pretty clear LeMond was clean throughout his career. I recall reading somewhere that in the early 90s, he was suddenly struggling to stay with the peloton, folks he breezed past early in his career. He has gone on to say he now realizes what was going on - the peloton was doped.

This was around the time Indurain began his 5-consecutive wins. Is there any suspicion on him at all? Just curious. I grew up knowing his awesomeness - but just given what LeMond said happened to the peloton towards the end of his career, does that tell us anything about Indurain - or is he thought to be clean?
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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Indurain more or less admitted to doping to a radio interviewer. He was told he could say "next question" to any question he didn't want to answer, and was asked a series of questions about his relationship with various riders and a few controversial topics. When asked if he'd ever doped, he said "next question", and when the interviewer, incredulously, pointed out that that implied that he had, Indurain repeated his statement.

Miguelón being on EPO is more or less a given.
 
Fortyninefourteen

Fortyninefourteen

Aug 7, 2010
1,247
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armstrong said:
Hi folks

Despite the name/avatar, I'm not that versed in the details of the sport. I'm not sure if I'm breaching sacred ground here but I'd thought I'd ask here.

It's pretty clear LeMond was clean throughout his career. I recall reading somewhere that in the early 90s, he was suddenly struggling to stay with the peloton, folks he breezed past early in his career. He has gone on to say he now realizes what was going on - the peloton was doped.

This was around the time Indurain began his 5-consecutive wins. Is there any suspicion on him at all? Just curious. I grew up knowing his awesomeness - but just given what LeMond said happened to the peloton towards the end of his career, does that tell us anything about Indurain - or is he thought to be clean?
Click to expand...

Indurain's heart stroke volume, VO2, and lung capacity were amongst the highest ever recorded. I am sure you could dig it up easily on the interweb. That said, the evidence 'suggests' the possibility. For sure in a clean on clean rider situation, he was untouchable in a TT, and quite capable climbing. Sadly his career peak was at the height of the dark period.
 
martinvickers

martinvickers

BANNED
Oct 15, 2012
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Libertine Seguros said:
Indurain more or less admitted to doping to a radio interviewer. He was told he could say "next question" to any question he didn't want to answer, and was asked a series of questions about his relationship with various riders and a few controversial topics. When asked if he'd ever doped, he said "next question", and when the interviewer, incredulously, pointed out that that implied that he had, Indurain repeated his statement.

Miguelón being on EPO is more or less a given.
Click to expand...

Indurain is almost the textbook answer to the question "what if Lance Armstrong had not been such a nasty bully, etc".

He was very well liked in the pleton, respected, paid his 'dues' to Delgado, treated rivals and friends gently and was, importantly, a national hero in a country that was coming into the world, but had a long tradition of omerta, and not just in cycling...and the omerta around him has remained more or less intact ever since- nobody seemed to want to destroy him at the time or retrospectively, even though he was arguably a 'boring' rider to watch. and he won 5 in a row in absolutely dominant fashion.

Being a civilised human being gets you a long way in the peleton. And maybe that's why a sociopath like Armstrong is actually necessary if doping is to be addressed.

Other notable legends who doped and yet seemed to keep their broad reputation include Merckx and Kelly, the greatest of all time, and arguably the greatest alrounder ever after Merckx - and they are universally described as 'humble'.
 
hrotha

hrotha

Jun 10, 2010
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There's been several threads about Indurain where his doping has been discussed in depth. The issues in dispute are not whether he doped (of course he did), but 1) when exactly he started taking EPO, and 2) what was the real extent of his GT talent.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
28,143
5
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armstrong said:
Hi folks

Despite the name/avatar, I'm not that versed in the details of the sport. I'm not sure if I'm breaching sacred ground here but I'd thought I'd ask here.

It's pretty clear LeMond was clean throughout his career. I recall reading somewhere that in the early 90s, he was suddenly struggling to stay with the peloton, folks he breezed past early in his career. He has gone on to say he now realizes what was going on - the peloton was doped.

This was around the time Indurain began his 5-consecutive wins. Is there any suspicion on him at all? Just curious. I grew up knowing his awesomeness - but just given what LeMond said happened to the peloton towards the end of his career, does that tell us anything about Indurain - or is he thought to be clean?
Click to expand...

You can change your name and avatar!

http://www.dopeology.org/people/Miguel_Indurain/

15/05/1994 Positive test

Indurain tested positive at the 1994 Tour de l'Oise. Salbutamol was banned in France at the time but had not yet found its way onto the UCI's banned list. Indurain was not sanctioned.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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Spain are nowhere near willing to shed any new light on Contador or Indurain.

I've been reading a couple of Spanish articles on the Armstrong saga, and nowhere did I find not even the slightest hint towards the possibility that Spain's cycling heroes may, in retrospect, not have been that cleanish either.

Hell, who cares that Del Moral, Marti, and Celaya were at the heart of it.

But the Puerto investigation is still running, isn't it?
Will be interesting to see what that brings.
I truly hope they shatter my Spain-related prejudices to pieces.
 
the asian

the asian

Jan 20, 2011
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hrotha said:
There's been several threads about Indurain where his doping has been discussed in depth. The issues in dispute are not whether he doped (of course he did), but 1) when exactly he started taking EPO, and 2) what was the real extent of his GT talent.
Click to expand...

This what I'm curious about too. Was he on EPO from 91 or 92 or 93?

I
 
Swabian Lass

Swabian Lass

Jun 7, 2011
361
0
9,280
hrotha said:
There's been several threads about Indurain where his doping has been discussed in depth. The issues in dispute are not whether he doped (of course he did), but 1) when exactly he started taking EPO, and 2) what was the real extent of his GT talent.
Click to expand...

This.

But being a nice guy can get you a long way. Indurain didn't bully people, call them alcoholics and prostitutes (not even fat) and use his success to destroy careers. He's still got a lot of friends in cycling, which is why on the whole, people aren'r interested in bringing him down, in the same way that they were Armstrong.
 
spalco

spalco

Feb 1, 2011
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martinvickers said:
Other notable legends who doped and yet seemed to keep their broad reputation include Merckx and Kelly, the greatest of all time, and arguably the greatest alrounder ever after Merckx - and they are universally described as 'humble'.
Click to expand...

Offtopic, but: Merckx humble, seriously? Anyway, I don't think there's any reasonable person anywhere who would claim Merckx was clean, but doping before EPO was a different thing.
 
spalco

spalco

Feb 1, 2011
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
To you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_k47Ji92yI

So funny, Conconi vs Ferrari.

Yep, I am a cynic clinical. I really despice this guy.

edit: when u watch the video you see Ullrich in fact, same stuff
Click to expand...

Gods, that top12 list at the beginning is so absurd, I can't help but laugh out loud at that.

Imagine having the knowledge we now have inserted into your head in 1992 or 1993 or whatever - how could you ever take this sport seriously?

And the ironic thing is that there were plenty of people back then who knew everything already at the time. Including I have to assume the commentators of this clip...
 
martinvickers

martinvickers

BANNED
Oct 15, 2012
4,903
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spalco said:
Offtopic, but: Merckx humble, seriously? Anyway, I don't think there's any reasonable person anywhere who would claim Merckx was clean, but doping before EPO was a different thing.
Click to expand...

Humble? Outside the peleton, absolutely not. but inside it, yeah, given his status, he was.

And doping is doping is doping. We allow a few pills pass without comment, we will inevitably end up with Armstrong, as night follows day.
 
131313

131313

Jun 18, 2009
1,225
1
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Fortyninefourteen said:
Indurain's heart stroke volume, VO2, and lung capacity were amongst the highest ever recorded. I am sure you could dig it up easily on the interweb. That said, the evidence 'suggests' the possibility. For sure in a clean on clean rider situation, he was untouchable in a TT, and quite capable climbing. Sadly his career peak was at the height of the dark period.
Click to expand...

Let's keep in mind that many of those measurement were provided by his doctor, Conconi, who was using him as his own personal science project. I don't think anyone knows what his actual physical parameters would be without the dope, or if any of the numbers touted were actually true.

He was as big a fraud as Armstrong, IMO. I think MV summed up the difference between the two in the post above. He didn't screw over nearly as many people, so he stayed mostly below the radar and people are willing to just forget about it.
 
martinvickers

martinvickers

BANNED
Oct 15, 2012
4,903
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Big Doopie said:
um...hinault?
Click to expand...

Hinault was a far better GT Riders. Kelly's talents arguably covered a wider range of disciplines - from Multiple Classics to Multiple Green Jersey to Vueltas.

As I said, arguable, but there you go.
 
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