A question for those from the US

[Stani Kléber]

That's true, it is not about nationality, being American or Dutch. Maybe the differences are not so much between nationality, but language, with English-speaking fans and non-English speaking fans?

 

[jaylew]

Therefore back to the nationalistic theory of support. Also people still probably see the team as German.

Yeah. Most Americans are not huge cycling fans so when they do decide to get into the sport they will naturally gravitate towards "American teams" and American riders. And the way they classify teams nation-wise is rather ridiculous anyway. For example, I bet most people have no idea that Ireland has 3 big Pro Continental teams: LPR Brakes, Ceramica Flaminia, and CSF Navigare. I'm guessing most people consider them to be Italian teams[/QUOTE]

This I don't understand. Why do people support a dubious team such as Astana, or most of the Italian and Spanish teams, yet dislike teams that actively take a stance against dopin? I guess you probably have the same feeling about the British team?

I certainly see your point here. I think that some of us big time cycling fans have unfortunately become a bit jaded. It's just that, almost every team claims to be taking a stand against doping, but honestly, I wouldn't be any more surprised for a Garmin rider to test positive than an Astana rider. At the end of the day we're dealing with individuals who are going to make their own decisions. It's not like Garmin only employs only riders who have never tested positive. And speaking of Millar, everytime a big name comes up positive, he acts surprised and starts laying into them when he did the same thing!

I don't follow track so I don't get the British team reference.

As for Bottle, there are far too many stories ciculating about him for me to even consider liking him. Besides the only reason he's won the ToC 3 times is that last year he knew he wouldn't be riding the Tour and this year he knows he won't have the chance to ride for himself at any other race. Astana rode for him there, knowing that he'll be riding for others for the rest of the year.

Assuming you're referring to Levi, I wasn't trying to get you to like the guy. If you don't like him, you don't like him. I think you need to separate your personal opinions from the results. You don't have to like a rider to recognize and value his/her achievements. That's the only reason he won? C'mon, man, give me a break!!

 

[schadenfreude]

Where did I get the idea that many in Europe are skeptical about Armstrong? Anywhere, from media to friends to colleagues, many would prefer that he continued to enjoy his retirement.

Like I say, many in the US seem excited about his return but in Europe people would rather look to the riders of the future than the past, his comeback is more akin to a circus show.

so you've been traveling throughout the EU, asking people about this?

That's true, it is not about nationality, being American or Dutch. Maybe the differences are not so much between nationality, but language, with English-speaking fans and non-English speaking fans?

funny. i know plenty of dutch speaking cyclists/fans who are happy/interested in seeing armstrong's comeback.

 

[Epicycle]

As to Levi's "positive" it was when he was a junior. He was briefly suspended, then the suspension was overturned when he produced proof that the substance he tested positive for was in an allergy medication prescribed for him, and he was unaware that the prescription contained anything forbidden, and he should have produced the prescription pre-race. In the end it was more of an exoneration of Levi by the authorities than simply an overturning of the suspension. They believed he had been wrongly suspended in the first place. I believe this happened in 1993.

Levi's positive was in 1996 after he won the national criterium championships. He was 22. The race result was never overturned.

 

[Jarvis]

You in the US certainly seem deprived of news, even those with access to the 'web.

Angrilu and TTF, I know plenty of well informed types in the US. As you said, it was a generalisation and an intentional one at that in response to a comment, put your egos away. I'm perfectly able to understand that one person doesn't speak for a nation, there are enough idiots in this country for me to know that.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

One needs to make a difference here. If you are a “Team in Training” type of guy or gal, LA is the ****. This is partially because one’s limited knowledge of the history and richness of the sport of cycling. Now for the more cycling educated fan, there are more options than LA. I do have to disagree with some of you on DVD as the current best US rider. That is just not true based on results, his resume and his panache. Hands down the best US rider is Levi currently. He has done some good things. Horner is not bad either. As far as LA, you need to give the guy the opportunity to see if he is able to return to the sport at the level where he left. This season for LA has been packed with ok results at lower tier races, so we cannot count him out, but neither praise him as the current best.
It was news to me to hear that Levi has had a positive. I glad to know that fact.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Angrilu and TTF, I know plenty of well informed types in the US. As you said, it was a generalisation and an intentional one at that in response to a comment, put your egos away. I'm perfectly able to understand that one person doesn't speak for a nation, there are enough idiots in this country for me to know that.

This is a good place for me to jump right in without paying attention to the entire conversation because I'm all about generalizations! As far as cycling knowledge goes I have plenty to share but half of it I make up! One thing I know for sure is that cycling fans in general lack a quality sense of humor as well as a firm grasp of sarcasim.

http://www.chaoscyclingclub.com

 

[Pietro]

This is a good place for me to jump right in without paying attention to the entire conversation because I'm all about generalizations! As far as cycling knowledge goes I have plenty to share but half of it I make up!


"One thing I know for sure is that cycling fans in general lack a quality sense of humor as well as a firm grasp of sarcasim."

http://www.chaoscyclingclub.com

No **** Captain.

 

[hawkeye87]

As you say, Jarvis. These guys left Postal, with unblemished records. Hamilton and Landis left and got stained. Yet who gets the support?

Add to the fact that cycling coverage in the U.S. is limited to either Olympic events (every 4 years) OR Versus.

I know Versus has covered Garmin and Columbia but are still Lance worshippers and cover Floyd and Tyler too. It's funny how they REALLY steer clear of all doping discussions. The average American sports fan drawn to cycling because of Lance will NOT stay fans If they think this sport is dirty.

Just look at how much U.S. fans want to believe that football, baseball and whatever other sport is "clean" and that they honestly catch all the cheaters.

I loosely paid attention to cycling during Lemond's era but Lance really brought me into it. Once I started to really understand the sport, I became less of a fan of his.

I just wish the UCI and other powers (not just the ASO) honestly commit to cleaning it up but money talks the most and if they think the sport will die off too much, they'll half-heartedly fight the doping battle.

 

[ElChingon]

Bottle

Hey! I'm not the only one who calls him that, but I got it from NYV so I'm just joining in the bandwagon, most people ask why and talk about making a long explanation, glad I don't have to repeat it here .

US Based fans are just that Lance-fans or Cycling-fans and they knock heads everywhere they appear together. Being a cycling fan I find news not only on here but other non-english sites which give me a wider range of news and information if not point of view on events which is needed to enjoy the sport to its fullest as I can't get enough from just one site. Break out the Babel Fish if you want more info, or learn another language, a tough call for most (not all) US based fans.

Classic censorship examples are when English speaking sites do not list out results or incidents (don't worry non-doping incidents) involving US based riders, one classic example are the George Hincapie crashes at Paris-Roubaix in the early years. English sites list that he crashed and that's it nothing more, Euro sites show pictures of him head first in a ditch and when and where he crashed and along with whom. I'm a fan I want to know what happened and see what happen if I'm not there, I don't think any less of Hincapie because he crashed, P-R is a tough race as we all know, but why hide what happened?

I do agree the Lance-fans usually do not know much more outside of Lance's results and twitter posts, so naturally they have a distorted view of the rest of the cycling world.

One last note, cycling is as popular a sport in the US as American Football is in Europe, sure some fans (again true Cycling-fans, not just Lance-fans) but nowhere near the same numbers as American Football, Basketball, or Baseball. That alone reduces the number of possible athletes in the sport, mainly due to the money! Yes, would you ride for $100K or play Basketball for $1M? Humm.. tough decision or easy? Yes, some of you will possibly counter with some numbers for Lance, but as you know not all riders are of Lance caliber or marketing angle, I'm talking average.

As a true Cycling-fan, I idolize Dave Stoler! Every racer should aspire to equal Dave's desire for cycling.

On the avenues for finding cycling information, the web was my main source of history, news, results, stories. Then books and magazines, from all over, any friend visiting Europe had a standing order to bring back any cycling magazine they ran across. There is really no excuse in this day and age for a fan not to be able to have access to pretty much anything cycling related.

On that note, a special thanks to Bill , no explanation need for those in the know.